FieldEffect's Attempt to Grow Indoors

All I would suggest is to never use plain tap/RO for an irrigation. Always use fertilizer solution. Add the HOCl, or whatever, to the solution.

From scienceinhydroponics post on making HOCl (not by electrolysis though):

“The expected concentration of hypochlorous acid should be around 0.02% (200ppm). It can be used from 2 to 10mL/gal of hydroponic nutrient solution, depending on the severity of the problems that need to be solved. For overall maintenance and the solution of minor infections, dosages of 5mL/gal should be more than adequate.”

Did you do that par meter comparison or whatever, or put it off for later?

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I sent the second MegaGarden back and got the Apera PH60/EC60 combo. I don’t know where I would put it. Maybe I’ll just get a 10x10 I’ll be able to sleep in it when I get kicked out :rofl:

I was surprised as well. I haven’t ever seen PM but it seemed to help with botrytis. I did some damage with 500ppm although some folks say that works fine for them, it may be the intensity of the sun out here but 200-250ppm was where I wound up running things.

I’ll do that. I planned to give the cubed cuts a couple days of veg anyway.

Why is this? I let all the excess drain so there would be minimal dilution, and this was done just before the scheduled flood cycle to ensure the plants will have some nutrients available virtually immediately. But, it will be a “diet” day for them. Is that the concern?

It got shelved. The concurrence I found between the 3 “meters” I have (Photobio PAR meter, Android Photone, and PPFD App + Uni-T UT383 BT) lowered the apparent priority of this problem to me. I still plan to do it but it got shifted down on the list a bit. They were all within a few percent. Had they all been 20% different readings I would have quickly done the comparison testing to figure out what the real levels were.

Cheers guys, hope you all have great weekends! I was out playing with the kiddo for a few hours and enjoyed some of last year’s outdoor harvest :sunglasses:

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Made some moves this morning. Best of 11 cuts narrowed down to the 6 best specimens. I’ve got some nice looking roots on the girls that got transplanted today.

Soaked 6 cubes 5.5pH 1.9EC for a few hours (last night to this AM). Mixed up the main reservoir to the same (veg mix). I’ll add the remainder of A and B content later in the week (to reach flower levels) when they are comfortable. They’ll be on veg time until they harden up a bit. They are straight out of the dome (with open vents), running about 200 PPFD. I placed the crooked ones in the middle to hopefully straighten vertically directly under the light. They’ll be on the same lighting schedule as veg for a few days.

There are a few cuts still waiting to root. Back into barely cracked vents to continue their thing. Today is day 13 since cutting. Note the trifoliate 907 Blue Genes x NL#1 plant number 2. Cool.

Made some algae shields from Reflectix. They fit really loosely on the top just to keep the light out.

Veg side looking good as I zip up the tent. Some strange leaf tip stuff going on maybe from yesterdays sterilization procedure/flush. I confirmed pH and EC were on-point, they are 6.0pH and 1.87EC. I debated whether or not to just up-cube the surplus cuts and discard the seed moms. Too late now, I decided to keep the seed plants for now. The space limitation is pretty severe in my setup. I don’t have the freedom to do much in parallel. I have to pick a plan and stick to it. Good way to learn fast I guess. :rofl:

Hope you all have a great weekend! Thank you for all the advice to this point, progress is happening :sunglasses:

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Don’t have an ORP monitor, an going on recipes from top Athena growers like Dankemshunter, who runs up to 12 mg/gal. Subjectively, they do seem to love the high dose, makes them happy in the rootzone!

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It gets added last, per the Athena recipe mix order. Used to be second. Suspect it can be added at any point without crashing anything out. We do top off with some more of a batch tank is around more than a day.

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Well, things are well in 2/3 of the tent.

Flower-side cuts (on 16/8 lighting) are good. I’ve been adding some pH up to the res, a total of 4mL over the last 24 hours. Went from pH 5.6 to stable pH 5.9 this morning. Perfect.

8.5 gallons RO water starting EC 20uS/cm
128mL MegaCrop Part A Stock Soln (5mL/g)
128mL MegaCrop Part B Stock Soln (5mL/g)
10mL 500ppm HOCl (equates to 0.15ppm should be very conservative)
0.5mL Grow Genius Monosilicic (equates to about 50% suggested dose rate)

Cuts are well, opened the vents a bit it’s too wet in there.

I fucked up yesterday I must not have checked the mother FD res EC I have a hand-scribbled note with 1.87 that may have been the cut feed bottle or maybe my AeroGarden I need to take better notes clearly. I smoke more weed than ever and my memory, maybe it isn’t as good as it once was. I ain’t getting younger. Anyway, check EC and pH reveals EC of like 3.3 (I’ve been feeding 1.9) and 6.4pH. WAT THE HELL. I’m guessing my half-ass flush 2 days ago just put all the residual nutes into local solution, and a few flood drains have actually just been starting to leech it out, raising the res EC. And yesterday I was showing signs of excess EC. I definately checked the pH investigating the leaves showing some damage. But cloudy on whether I checked the EC or not. Anyway, pumped about half out, refilled with RO and added 1.3mL pH down. Now sitting at 6.0 expect it to drop a bit, EC 1.8.

DAMN it.

Anyway, several lessons here.

  1. Better notes and check EC, especially if I did anything to anything unusual.
  2. I think “flushing” rockwool may take a bit longer than I expected. A few minutes and rinse didn’t seem to have actually gotten rid of the salts, rather just remobilized them in the block where they went straight back into my reservoir after some irrigation cycles.

My remediation plan is to cycle the nutes again (happens in 25 minutes), I’ll check EC again and see if it is still rising (I expect it to). I’ll again readjust the reservoir EC. Part of me wants to just soak the things in RO for an hour to be sure they are empty. I may do that still, it’s not off the table but I’m learning perhaps gradual is better than dramatic when making changes.

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Oh how nice, how could I have missed that! Sometimes there’s just too much to follow and things can get lost in the shuffle!

I think I might be able to give you a tip or two when it comes to rockwool, I just need a bit to write it all down. Writing long texts is not one of my skills.

But a direct tip would be to reduce ec to 1.3 and pH 5.5 and flush from above until the drain has reached ec 1.3. this should help the plants directly and improve within 24-48. depending on how fast the plant grows, it is normal for the pH to go up because the plant uses no-3 to form biomass, so the pH goes up. i’ll write something down again at my leisure and send it to you. :slight_smile: only if you want to, of course

have a great sunday

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I’m happy to read anything you write up.

Flushing them as you suggest would be really difficult in my situation. I don’t have an easy way to dispense fresh nutrient solution to “wash” this way. I need to make a bucket with a spigot or some other kind of dispensing container I can use this way.

What is/was readily achievable with what I have was to mix up 4 gallons (15L) of 1.3 EC, 5.5pH in a large basin. My 10x blocks are a total of 3.7L of volume. I soaked the 10 blocks in this basin for a total of 20-30 minutes, totally covering both the rockwool and rooting plug. I figure the 1:5 dilution ratio is about as good as I can get here at 6am, and I can repeat this procedure as required. I spent the time pulling them out of the solution, draining them, and re-submerging them. Realistically with 50% water retention it’s 1:10 dilution rate I’d think that’s a good step.

Anyway, that soak in the above solution raised the EC to 1.75mS, or 450us. That’s huge IMO. It’s coincidence that is the level I’m trying to feed at generally. I replaced them in the tray to continue draining and will be emptying the reservoir and refilling that from scratch.

I have a feeling that will make a significant step towards equalizing levels. Sheesh, what a morning. Crispy leaves are depressing. Trying to take it in stride, at the end of the day it’s a few plants even if they all die I can still make more cuts.

Interestingly, the 907 x Shiska crosses look almost unfazed by the whole ordeal. They seemed frail and slow in other respects, but they take high EC like a champ.

I’m burning and learning. :rofl:

image

You also have a great Sunday!

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Ok, let’s get started. So that I don’t write all over the place, I’ll just write down how I proceed step by step. I’m sure you already know a lot of it.

Soaking:

Before I use the rockwool, I soak it for 24 hours in a nutrient solution with an EC corresponding to the size of the rockwool cubes and the plants and a pH of 4.5 to 4.8.
After these 24 hours, the pH value should have risen by approx. 1.00 and thus reached pH 5.5 - 5.8. After you have removed the nutrient solution and drained the cubes or slabs, they are ready to be stocked.

With this procedure, I always have perfectly prepared substrate, regardless of the stage of the plant’s life. Some people think you don’t need to do this, but I’ve been doing it for quite a while now and it works well.
I think most books also describe this as the standard procedure for rockwool. I recommend not skipping this step.

Finding the right EC:

It can be as easy as making coffee. Or as difficult as keeping a cold fusion going. Joking aside ! :slight_smile:

The easiest way to prevent salt buildup is to find the right EC. Let’s just say we give the plants an EC of 1.2 and the drain is also 1.2 at this point everything is perfect!
After 24 hours I measure the drain again and if the drain has risen noticeably I reduce the EC in the tank by 0.1 - 0.2 and check the drain again after 24 hours. Whether it is rising, falling or has reached equilibrium. I then correct the tank accordingly, but always in small steps. :slight_smile: This has actually always worked so far and is easy to implement on rock wool and in the hydro area.
And should be independent of the nutrient profile. That’s another story in itself! Just like the influence of phenos ect. bla bla bla :slight_smile:

Oh shit I have to flush:

Everyone knows it, you have everything set up perfectly and everything is going great!!! Until the day your ec meter tells you: “Bro your drain has an ec of 1.6” and you think to yourself hmm actually you should have 1.2.
These are all just examples of EC values, the real ones can of course look quite different! However, the procedure is always the same. First of all, always rinse with a pH in the range of 5.5 - 5.8!!!
And it should be clear that flushing always means Drain to Waste or Drain to Garden! That is why it is so important to find the right EC value so that you do not use too much consumable material.

If the EC is a little higher, I flush with my preferred EC value until the drain reaches it. In this example, until the drain is back to 1.2.
If the EC is quite high, I prepare a tank with half the EC value of my desired EC value, in this example Ec 0.6, and flush with it until the EC reaches 1.2 again.

These two variants should always be sufficient for flushing if the EC is well adjusted.

Irrigation:

Here I think opinions probably differ widely. Which is perfectly fine, as no two setups are the same and I would never say that this or that is the best solution.
There are simply too many variables that affect the plant’s water balance.

I avoid ebb and flow with the very large cubes (15 x 15 cm) and with slabs (100 x 15 cm). Drip irrigation is preferred here as, in my opinion, this is what they were designed for. (just my personal opinion)

With the (7.5 x 7.5 cm), on the other hand, ebb and flow works quite well, as the cubes keep changing position on the table (or tray or whatever serves as a base) during the vegetation phase. Here, drippers would only interfere with handling during operation.

I usually immerse my 7.5 cubes in a freshly mixed bucket of nutrient solution until no more air bubbles rise in the bucket. Then I pull it out and let the excess nutrient solution drip off into a second bucket or in the sink. now the cube is saturated and should not need any further watering for between 12-24 hours, depending on the size of the plant and the outside temperature etc… This can of course vary…

Let’s come back to the 15x15 cm cubes in which I keep my mother plants. I also immerse these cubes in a bucket of nutrient solution as described above. However, I only do this every few days or once a week. For me, this is enough to keep everything healthy and alive without the cubes drying out. I have relatively few watts above my mothers, as I don’t need huge quantities of cuttings.
If I now offer the mothers more light and more watering during the day, then I have to throw away a lot of cuttings every week. Everyone has to find the right interval for themselves.

Phew I’m just looking at the monster I’ve created… Like I said I’m not good at writing long texts I hope this helps at least a little!!!If things are unclear or I have expressed myself incorrectly just drop me a DM.

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And here I am, stacking in-media EC to 8-12 during P1s, rinsing back down to around 3.5 in P2. This is of course top feed in rockwool. Input feed RD around 3 until late flower.

The EC stacking part of Precision Fertigation is a nearly miraculous thing to watch! I started with Dankemshunter’s feed charts.

https://www.google.com/url?q=https://store.athenaag.com/SSP%2520Applications/NetSuite%2520Inc.%2520-%2520SCS/SuiteCommerce%2520Standard/athena/assets/Dankemshunter%2520Feed%2520Program.pdf&sa=U&ved=2ahUKEwjExd-szbeEAxU7M0QIHcitBX0QFnoECAMQAg&usg=AOvVaw1kfXHy0derAk0i9o2hgJA1

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@m0sirys thank you for the post. You soak your rockwool at lower pH than typical and run it a little lower as well. Any particular reason? I’ve been soaking at 5.5pH which seems to be conventional. I’m running the 7.5 cubes for veg/mothers and 10 cubes in flower. What nutrients do you run?

I really appreciate all the details and procedural info. Thank you for taking the time and effort to write that up for me. :+1: :+1:

@BigF I really like the documentation of the Athena stuff. I’ve been listening to their podcast more as well. Thanks for the link, I’m taking a look!


The Encrispening

Fuck it’s sad boys and girls. Borrowing the term from @Not-Notjosh that made me almost spit out my drink laughing last night. So all flushed, and refilled with nutes.

If I don’t see improvement in a few days I’ll go backwards and cut a new round from the vegging plants on the other side of the tent.

The Cuts

The rest of the plants are happy and weren’t tortured as horrendously by my naive attempts to ensure they were happy.

Made a spreadsheet to track daily values of everything. When I get ORP measurement capability that’ll be tracked as well.

I have to go into town today and get my phone fixed. Hopefully the seed plants bounce back, they all have some crispy leaves and some good leaves. I don’t think it’s a lost cause yet. Fortunately I didn’t nuke everything at once.

Have a great day guys, keep an eye on pH and EC if you do recirculation!

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you are welcome I hope it helps a little.

yes the reason why i go so low with the ph when soaking is that the value always goes up by 1.0 ph in 24 hours. so from 5.5 to 6.5 which is then at the upper limit for rockwool. why the value goes up by 1.0 in 24 hours is probably because of all the loose broken rockwool fibers.
yes… the very things that are so itchy when you insulate a gibel with rockwool. but that’s just my guess

i would like the ph in the cube to be between 5.5- 5.8 24 hours after soaking. this is the optimum range for the ph value so that our favorite plant absorbs all the important nutrients. from here on, the plant changes the ph and ec in the cube.

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The Uncrispening…

Spent about an hour sadly trimming up my plants. The irony, twisted as it is, was that I attempted to flush them to PREVENT issues. Of course, I unleashed a fury of new problems dislodging all the built up nutes. In addition to an excessive amount of HOCl.

I’ve never apologized to plants before, but I did tonight. It hurts to do damage to something you were trying to take care of. Clipped all the necrotic dying leaves and crispies off, tried to equalize height and get some light penetration.

Look what I did to my baby girls :grimacing:

I’m wondering how much damage was due to the HOCl and how much was due to the >4 EC that had to be present for my reservoir to have been 3.3 the next morning. I can’t find good pics of Cl overdose but the bronze leaves are consistent. I guess I’m the only one on the internet posting these failure pics :rofl:

I had a grocery bag of removed foliage I ceremoniously hurled in the garbage can.

I re-emptied the reservoir and refilled with fresh again. 5.6pH, 1.5 EC. If there’s residual Cl I want it gone. I frankly don’t care if I do this every day for the next several. Hopefully that ORP meter arrives and works. It’d be nice to have a metric for water safety.

They look better now, but a sad state of affairs compared to a week ago, before I got cocky and thought I’d “flush” the blocks out with a healthy dash of HOCl after seeing huge concentrations are acceptable for media flush.

I think they’ll be fine but I feel bad for causing them duress. I meant to take pictures of each but it would have been too depressing taking an extra hour to photograph them. Cleaned up. Onto new growth…hopefully

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:sparkles::zap:Onslaught of positivity incoming :zap::sparkles:

Doom with god mode is fun for like a minute.

If roller coasters only went up, would you even wait in line to ride it?
And how would you get home??

Do: stay on your plants’ good side. Smart to say you’re sorry sometimes
(extra CO2 at any rate right?) :wind_face:🪴

Don’t: see pictures of funyon fingers as evidence of failure, but as proof you are trying things that don’t succeed as well as you thought. 🫢 :fallen_leaf::thinking:

Once i stopped beating myself up for things not going so great, i started seeing things i could do that hey- maybe they also tank - but maybe not, right? And the more you know - the less you guess :four_leaf_clover:

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I like to say that I have 10 goals and if I hit 7 of them I’m doing good.

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Thanks @Not-Notjosh and @Foreigner

My plants are licking their wounds and I definitely learned some things. I thought flushing my mistakes was easy, it’s certainly easier said than done sometimes :rofl:

I’ll have to put your calendar in the veg space to inspire them :laughing:

By the way @Not-Notjosh HOCl is amazing to keep the reservoir clean. Your res funk would disappear with a few mL per gallon. I put a mL in my Aerogarden I can’t even believe how clean it’s staying. I hesitated to say anything given that I just crispened my shit going a little too wild with it

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yeah but that’s pretty cool, because then it’s a teaching moment for others as well. :call_me_hand:

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LOL yeah I certainly didn’t intend to create a thread filled with “don’t try this or you will get this disaster” but it is what it is. I knew when I did it that I may be upsetting the balance of things, I don’t know why exactly I did it anyway. But I did, and those leaves are what happened :rofl:

That meme is perfect :+1:

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im sure you`ll get this right pretty soon!! on rockwoll you can cut back anytime and start a new.

you asked about the nutrients i use ?!

here is a link to one . i think they also have english as language

have a great day!

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Hey, you’re cutting in on my turf now.

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