Fingers crossed 
Survival, hopefully, of the fittest 
Thanks man, only attempted this with the nudge from @Fuel
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Congrats, not an easy operation even when used. Damn some were already like decomposed oysters. Full empathy. Seed production and seed preparation before storage is totally concerned buddy.
I can draw/comment the “choc surgery shell removal” one if you want, it’s an interesting case.
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That was exactly what I thought with some of them - decomposed oysters.
Do!
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(Helping to cool down the vibes about a video i’m analyzing ^^)
I pass on self explanatory things to jump directly on the process to handle this case.
You have to attack in this case the endosperme patiently by the perimeter (in green) of the “leather” you see. What i call “the ass”. Very gently, in scratching with the scalpel all around (in maintaining the sprout only by the endosperme with the other hand).
Then you remove from here, from the extremity of cotyledon to the “hanging man cord” then the cuticle.
To heal/wash the traces on radicle + beneath the cuticle, you can simply put a drop of diluted H202 (same rate that for germination).
I use pure nicotine extract (the phyto one, diluted in PEG4000[instant anti-fungi]) to give a boost + give a systemic defense to the sprout during one good week but it’s risky. If the sprout is too attacked deeply, it can just burn an dry it.
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@Fuel I’ve carefully removed the “ass” - all of the removed bits pictured. Really starting to test my depth perception 
Disinfected in dilute H2O2.
It seems like it extended quite a bit back into the endosperm along the cuticle side (top red line you drew “strangulation”)
How’d I do? I worry I damaged the tip of the endosperm
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You done a really good job buddy, i’m genuinely impressed. My hands are enormous but i’m unable to operate this accurately.
The funk has more progressed that it looked like from outside yes. Don’t worry for the little chunks of cotyledons, sometimes i even cut some in half and it’s all good (the big fat ERSB female is one). The more important and critical is to preserve the apex hidden between the cotyledons. It’s where the real engine is (and what the plushy roots want to feed asap).
You can guess in the photo the junction of the cotyledon, when they open and separate to receive the first light. Just follow gently this line with the tip of the scalpel, both side. With the tweezer, peel gently.
At one point you will maybe be very stressed to see that the infected food has a bigger mass that the sprout itself inside. It can be thick.
The strangulation point is just a bad unstable drying of the seed that create this retraction trough the cuticle. Sow the extracted sprout the head outside and the strangulation point outside too.
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Now we’re pushing my capability beyond my comfort zone. I did manage to slit the endosperm at the seams of the two cotyledons.
I can lightly open the cotys but attempting to further operate is not going to end well. It’s up to nature now.
This is a really cool thing to be able to do on opposite sides of the globe in real-time.
Thank you for enabling that!
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Enough to save whales sometimes, my overgrown actual round is a good representation of this ^^
First time you do this ?
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Yeah first time. Bit stressful seeing as it’s impossible to get these seeds anymore.
Truely appreciate the guidance, hopefully can make more seeds with the results of this surgery and the intervention this morning.
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Fingers crossed too, very good horse that i consider as a “backbone” in the wiki’s slang.
Damn ok. I will definitively haunt you to make hybrids then ^^ You still think about the 1x1 ? 
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I assume you are talking about a 1x1 tent/pollen chamber? Yeah, I’ve definately been thinking about it. I think I have a spot for one, and I have an extra light panel and driver.
I have always really wanted to try Chocolope. Glad to hear its a good horse. I’m sure hybrids will happen. Really crossing my fingers I get a viable pair to repro the seeds and have some more selection power.
Similar in my ranks to Ortega/MLI. I mean, this is equal in priority to me as the Ortega project.
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Vibes sometimes are unexpected along the journey. I was more than happy to grow again my oxygen-JH but the repro is impossible without crushing my planning. Making me happy, after-while, to have to recreate the line. It’s a good thing, I’ve some stuff to revisit my way of the initial release.
This is a spirit to adopt fast. The chances to reproduce the choco are below any rational maths (luck can happens just like for me on the ERSB, but it’s very rare). You should already decide with which line you outcross it. I advise a BX program, whatever is the sex of the survivors. So you’re more ready for the bad new that for the good one.
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Good. Plan for the worst, hope for the best but don’t expect it. I think my mentality is healthy there. I’m motivated enough to do some seed surgery though 
Hadn’t really thought about a BX line. I’d lean toward a haze, maybe the Cannalope. You?
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I’m home with you, let’s talk straight. You have the grid.
Backcrossing processes were totally trashed (in transmission) by the generation just before me, to keep my generation (70s-80s kids that they were milking) as far away as possible to fast results. And i see the stain in your sentence. It’s a cultural (not geolocalized) influence and i take it as it, don’t worry.
Use the most opposite line you can find in your genpool. Just because it will be faster, more efficient and will not even ask any skills on selection (don’t be this lazy ass, accumulate layers of standards). Even better if you have a line that purple as shit no matter what it is, even more easy to BX fast.
You like Ortega ? Use it. Maybe the best tool you quoted for this job.
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Interesting. I would have done like @FieldEffect and choose something close, thinking they would share more genes and would help fix the traits faster. I see the advantage of choosing a more distant outcross explained like that.
But I wonder, say you want to keep the sativa high of the specimen. I’d think that choosing a very distant outcross like an indica would really complicate things.
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I will try to explain it with the hands like Kevin, but not in my native langage. lol
I’m in the shit with the JH. No male. So i’m forced to backup this with what look like a pointless F1 : JH x NL5H (parent of JH). I obtain this way a BX1 indirectly, even if i will get a (gentle) heterosis.
It’s not really the problem, the problem being the proximity of the two lines that will not really differentiate but little nuances expensive and long/hard to map (it mean more risks to don’t what i need, with the Jah’s factor). To find a first firestarter for my BX program, I’ve to count on an almost transparent segregation.
So i’m doomed to recreate the full sequence : JH->NL5H->Skunk#1, which at the end is just JH that i reinforce.
Now lets say i’m in the shit (i’m really, the two males NL5H are sick lol) and that i clone my favorite JH for a BX. I’ll use the shiva shanti II.
Shiva Shanti II : bushy, ton of leaves, not much stretch and a specific odor directly at the second week.
Jack Herer : tall divas complicated to feed, stretch like hell, no scents in veg, narrowed leaves shape …
The Shiva Shanti II doesn’t matter past the first fear of the F1. I just crush it with the BX with a maximum brutality : i can screen an hell of seedlings numbers, keeping only the JH phenos easily.
With a fusion like the NL5H, each time i BX i reinforce the NL5H and lost more the JH.
Don’t mix the “science of complementary” used to make mirages with F1 (reg or fems), in direct shot, with the BX. Two different games. Anyway with the SD you will have a real time demo of what i’m talking about ^^
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Intuitively I understand. You want a different, readily-recognizeable (and cullable) line for the cross. Then it’s easy to select the offspring I want for the BX. Nominally anyway. But isn’t the F1 of the dissimilar but presumably somewhat stable lines actually going to produce a relatively stable, hybrid offspring? You’d have to be watching for somewhat minor phenotypic variations.
I’d think you would want something like this:
F1: Chocolope x Ortega (for instance)
F2: F1xF1 (to break apart the uniformity of the F1 with dissimilar genetic lines)
BX: Chocolope x F2 selection (basically just watch for sativa structure)
I’d assume the F1 beans are going to be fairly hybridized in characteristics (the F4 Chocolope line-worked by AKBB and Ortega probably also not an F1 line anymore), but about a quarter of the F2 beans being actually very Chocolope-like. Is that reasonable thinking?
To be fair, there is also some interest in this mirage - apt choice of word there. I know its not your goal, but perhaps funky and I have similar mentalities - “that would still be what I want and carry on some of the characteristics of Chocolope” Maybe that’s an unconcious surrender and shortcut on my part.
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In other news, this Choco baby is deceased now. 
The cotys were starting to fatten up and the stem/cuticle was too brittle to support it. Looked strangled or pinched. Forgot to take a picture before it got thrown in the trash. The other is well, under its own micro humidity dome.
One of the paper-towel seeds is sprouting a nice root. I’m pessimistic for the other 3, but they’ve only been back in the towel for a day.
===========================
The Juicy Woo seedlings are well. And one of the Chocolope seedlings is totally normal and healthy. On the bright side 
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It’s the prefect case, yes 
More mendelian, 3:1:1. Over the age of these ratios … they still helping greatly and simply.
The 25% rule will apply more generally to all subsequent generations, the changes occur more on all intermediate subgroups between Dominant and Recessive leaders. But the choco is quite dominant initially, let’s say that you will increase the stature of the Ortega and change radically its chemotype in a first time.
Now it exist parameters and factors, on top of this.
If you use the Ortega, the segregation will directly hit hard in F1 quite frankly but on lower averages for a good prospect to the BX. The chances to find a choco almost not stained in F1 are very high. It’s a factor inherent to the Choco.
The usual recommandation for a good standard on stability still apply : the more the lines confronted are inbred, the more uniform the F1s (not stable, uniform). It’s even more drastic when you cross a BX with a F1 or an IBL (at the advantage of the BX). It’s a factor inherent to the build.
The initial reasoning was right, i just make it a scalpel with these details with a bankable project as output ^^
Because why not if you have the opportunity , it’s just a matter of process and momentum to build on the work. Much faster that all vicious breeding texts that prevail too much in term of influence, to make a loop.
Not “hierarchic doing” both of you, i know for a fact that with the right methods a bunch of exploits can happen that are defying the apparence. Specially at the start, when you’re not really aware of the difficulty of the choices ^^ It don’t last, it’s a moment “to sink your teeth into”. More trans-literally frenchized : “a temporary epiphany to bite with all the teeths of your jaws”.
Ego-time : it’s my 5th padawan actually (since i’m able to teach something practical lmao), my concern about the productivity and the progressiveness of the learning curve is really justified. Even for the thickest souls, it’s very important to start with some first little “easy” battles won.
You’re totally right on the influence of the grid btw, and i’m touched by this. Just thanks for this.
I know what you mean between the lines. For real it’s sacralizing the job and under-evaluating two points :
- The actual shit show that is more made of words, posers and genpool “status quo” than really a hard competition. The reality is that anyone from any level can become a bankable breeder within two years of constant work. And not a label that need to sell bible on boards with 2.0 marketing, someone that don’t even need to care to retail ^^ Don’t read it the wrong way, it wasn’t possible 20 years ago. It’s really due to the massive lowering of standards and grades, and the disparition in the scene of real good players. And balls i must admit, it’s not for everybody even in “legal states”. But scales is no longer a leverage to sort the “good” from the “good”, just the harsh waste of the darwinian transmission now. By example the simple fact to heal and maintain a given part of historic catalog make you someone bankable and useful. We are at this point buddy.
But there is my point : Who the fuck care if “you” want to professionalize or not, even yourself, if the frontier between a professional use of your potential and pointless chunks is thin like an OCB paper. Why not joining the rares evolutions … even if it’s just for the fun without any direct implication. If you put your passion in action and register it in evolutive results and constancy … you will be useful for a lot of people at one point. When things are made with passion + rationalism, you always finish to create weed that a niche need as fuck. If it’s just to feed your ego or to find an excuse to let the hobby become something more challenging … it’s the business of no one but the first concerned. And the perspectives change a lot during a journey. The only contract you’re signing it’s with yourself.
I was a firm landrace “templar”, the elitist one. I turned fully dutch hybrids in crusade against fems. Then i made them industrially. Then i retired to just make the weed i need, 100% egoism. Fuck off the future, let’s live plainly the present full throttle lol None first move decide your fate, better to focus on the good weed you need and let it flow ^^
- That at the moment you have the reference in motherplant, there is no limit but the phenotype kept itself. I don’t joke, at one point and with the right “not luring” methods you’re forced to just throw the reference to outperform the initial standard. And it’s way faster that the global marketing like to sell.
The fate is set then ^^ Trust me and operate a brutal BX. You will not regret.
It’s not a martingale, it’s a cascading consideration taking in count the lines also.
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A total lack of practice on mine I think, and too much theory ingested too fast 
I have no idea how fast you can crush an outcross with a BX for example. And how fast you can recover your original one when hunting multiple traits. I was also thinking a closer mate would help to rule out a bit the heterosis. But I see the rational for a more remote gentoype.
Bankable or not, good infos there, thanks!
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You can’t really and it’s normal. Still an haploid and cubing is just an enormous theoretical bullshit ^^
Now your case is a bit more complicated buddy. The initial balance you want to stabilize is way more fragile and technical to operate. The step of preparation still the same, you have to narrow first the results of dices just like with the Choco case.
Ne commences pas directement par un IBL de jonglage comme je l’ai trop poussé sur notre scène au départ. Je réalisais pas encore à l’époque le levier Darwinien additionnel que j’imposais à ceux qui me lisait. J’ai pris de la bouteille, j’ai aussi gâché des potentiels (uniquement les deux derniers ont pu toucher le end game) et je me suis aussi mis à faire un peu d’empathie pour ce à quoi ça doit ressembler pour quelqu’un qui grow pour de la weed qui évolue, en voyant quelqu’un qui n’en a strictement rien à foutre. C’est même devenu une tannée, y’a que la Big Bud qui m’a fait un tout petit peu vibrer depuis le reboot pour le moment. Et les smoke reports pour bien mapper, c’était plus la corvée qu’autre chose. C’est ça le vrai message : si vous tenez bons jusqu’au moment où vous rencontrerez votre weed, vous ne penserez plus qu’à ça et à celles que vous avez hésité à imaginer à cause d’un écran de fumée méthodologique. Et c’est qu’à ce moment là que vous me direz que je suis un taré de première de laisser traîner gratos de tels wiki sur le web ^^ Sans réaliser que vous représentez peut être 5% des stoners capables de les appliquer. Cela vient beaucoup plus tard ça lol Ouais c’était impossible en anglais, pardonnes moi FE.
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