AC Infinity makes a humidifier with a hose so it sits outside the tent pumping humidity into the tent. I’m going to pick one up so I can fit another plant in my flower tent
5 Likes
1 Like
Hmm.
@hooddirt thanks for the tip. I think I’m going to let 'em rough it a bit, especially for this first run.
@noknees yeah that’s absolutely a possibility. I’ve been doing that for my outdoor for the last two years. This time I think I’m going to do it the old fashioned way just to get that skill under my belt. But it sure is tempting.
3 Likes
Upper 2 rows are 907 Blue Genes x Shiskaberry
Lower 3 rows are 907 Blue Genes x NL #1
I watered yesterday with distilled and have both vents open on the humidity dome. I’m flipping the tray 180 degrees because I’m speculating the lower row is slightly colder than the upper one.
Looking happy! Lights on temps 80-83F, lights out temps dropping to 67F. It’s a pretty stable environment right now. The flower light is on at 100% so the heat load of the tent is reasonably representative of how the tent will usually be running. Flower 12/12 100%, Veg side 18/6 top and bottom lights both running 400 PPFD if I lay my phone on the germination trays.
Now, usually I’d be watering the coco pellets with a very dilute mix of kelp, and it would be every day because they dryed out faster with my ghetto closet seed starter rig of years past. I’m just using straight distilled water and not much. Maybe a cup total since they went into these pellets 4 days ago. At what point should I be watering with some nutrition? I guess I’m most concerned about Ca/Mg/N since there is NOTHING in the medium or the water. Years past they went pretty much at this stage into mild soil, and I was watering with tap water. We’re inert everything for the first time in my growing experience and I have no idea what the F I’m doing.
I’m leaning towards adding maybe 100ppm of veg-ratio Mega Crop to the water. Half a gram of each the calcium nitrate and the special blend (I forget which is A and which is B). That gets some Ca/Mg into the water at least and a tiny amount of everything else. Maybe even go to 200 ppm. I did some reading on RIU, lots of bickering over there it’s unbearable. Happy to be here 
Still no word on MegaGarden shipping. Cultivate supply removed the MegaGarden from the site it’s probably not available, and sent an email to Agriculture Solutions. What GroIndoor had previously listed as 8 available is now showing “Out of Stock.” I may be cobbling together a DIY setup after all.
12 Likes
with RO, under LED…i think your plan makes sense. would assume the cotys go quickly.
babies look good! I’m extra keen on the 907 x NL 
3 Likes
That’s frustrating after waiting a couple weeks… hopefully the refund goes smooth. You’ll probably end up putting something together for 1/4 of the price anyway 
.
Looks like you’re on the right track with the nutrients. I like to move the starter cubes into the next size container once the tap root is visible and then feed at like 0.3-0.4 ec (including ~0.1 tap) and ramp up from there. Always start with less unless you’re sure.
3 Likes
@noknees I think I’ll find a winner in that tray 
@NoCal are you using a 700ppm/EC scale? I have some setups already investigated but they are all pretty similar cost just because of shipping on those big plastics. We’ll see but I’m running out of time waiting 
4 Likes
The meter reads EC, it doesn’t convert to ppm for me. I think hanna meters use the 700 scale and other companies use 500 if you are trying to compare numbers? Maybe I dont understand the question, lol.
Ya that 20x20 tray was pretty perfect for your space. I’m surprised more companies don’t make trays/stands/reservoirs that actually fit tents these days. Whatever it is you’ll need it fast 
3 Likes
Yeah I was just curious because I am familiar and comfortable with ppm. Definitely prefer it. Just curious what the standard conversion is. 700 scale?
Just got back from Walmart found some interesting stuff the problem is wanting an opaque reservoir.
This looks neat
4 Likes
It depends on the meter, I think 500 is more common though. Some fancy meters do both 
.
2 Likes
Fuck, there’s more to it than that. Of course.
So the meters read EC directly. Then they multiply it by whatever conversion to indicate ppm. So when I think ppm is the better, universal unit, I’m totally wrong. EC is standardized.
Generally, TDS is represented with the 500 scale associated with sodium rather than potassium salts. So in hydroponics, 500 scale is reasonable but EC is the direct, valid measurement.
I like ppm because soil tests measure this, and it’s trivial to calculate nutrition around ppm. I have my hydro spreadsheet all in PPM. Turns out we can’t measure that directly. Not surprising when I think about how the meter works with two electrodes. Feel kinda dumb not having figured it out sooner.
I’m learning a lot every day and we’re not even cranking yet. Thanks for coming on the ride 
7 Likes
Action Packers are awesome containers, definitely a good sealable opaque container for this, I think most people just go with one of the smaller Brute cans like 10-20G
4 Likes
It’s all just a reference, if you’re used to ppm and how your plants react at different ranges that’s all that matters. Don’t change anything that works 
.
6 Likes
That Brute 10-Gallon looks like it’ll fit.
Check these out: McMaster-Carr
Shipping on those fuckers is as much as the bin - 2x stacking, one for the res, one for the tray $150. On the plus side, I KNOW I’d get them 2 days after I pull the trigger. They barely fit but would fit and allow a little airflow up around the sides.
There’s also these: McMaster-Carr
Good size and half the cost but the divider slots look like a PITA to clean.
@NoCal LOL somehow things always change. Learn new things, use new things.
6 Likes
What about these 20 x 15” bus trays?
Or alternately a plastic hotel pan?
It sucks that you don’t have an extra inch or two, then you could use pizza dough boxes, that’s what the McMaster Carr stuff looks like to me:
5 Likes
I was really hoping to flower as close to a 4 x 4 grid of clones as possible. Using 4" cubes I need 16" on a side which is kinda where I was driving. Maybe I just slim the blocks down or use 3" cubes.
There are a ton of options in a narrower footprint. I’m almost thinking about independent 10x20 deep propagation trays, each fitting 8 4" cubes. Mount the two trays on a plate with a stand, use whatever as a reservoir and plumb the trays in parallel.
The reservoir almost doesn’t matter. The 10 gallon Brute trashcan, the Action Packer. It’d be nice to flood the rockwool completely but a couple inches is probably OK. Maybe just run narrow and see how it goes. Those bussing trays are so close. 24" tent is kinda a fucked up size compared to all the mass-produced trays.
I’m going to wait for Tuesday/Wednesday to see if anything ships. Amazon actually had one I also ordered. The size is just too perfect for me to give up on. If Thursday comes I’m going to make a decision and go with it.
Thanks for all the help! There’s lots of decent options, but they are all a compromise. That’s life I guess 
6 Likes
The seedlings are doing fine. Nothing new cracking, I pulled up most of the seeds that weren’t above ground yet just to see - I think I ruined one that was cracked and starting a tap root. My dumb decisions frequently have dumb consequences. However, it seems many of the immature seeds I tried to germinate are indeed too young to be viable. Lessons learned, and hardly a surprise.
We appear to have 6 viable 907xNL#1 and 5 viable 907xShiskaberry seedlings. That makes 11 in good health. If I disregard the 5 immature seeds (1 of the Shisk, 4 of the NL), I’ve got 11/13 good looking mature seeds above ground. Not bad. Not perfect. I’m happy with this result for literally my first pollen chucking attempts.
If I put on my optimistic hat, that’s good news in a few ways. It looks like the maximum number I’m going to be flowering is 11 or 12 at the moment. I’m probably going to be receiving the MOB cut sometime this month that’ll go in as well. I may wind up with another cut or two. So if I plan on flowering 12 at a time, it becomes MUCH more viable to use the restaurant server trays at 20" x 15". That would make for an inexpensive DIY flood table should the MegaGarden not be shipped shortly. In the grand scheme of things, I probably would have gotten myself in trouble with more plants anyway. Perhaps a smaller number than intended is a blessing in disguise.
I mixed up a 1L bottle of distilled water with 2mL of AN Sensi Cal Mag Xtra and 3 drops of pH down to yield a 5.6pH solution. The Sensi Cal Mag Xtra is 2 years old but it smells and looks fine, not sure why it would “expire” so to speak. Fed a few mL of that solution to each of the seedlings. The plan is to get those seedlings into rockwool cubes later this week.
I received a free sample of Lost Coast Plant Therapy to add to my emergency pest/disease remidiation kit. Nice of them to offer that sample program.
Happy New Year!
11 Likes
The day I learned that ppm was calculated from EC I changed over. Don’t need more meaningless confusion, lol!
6 Likes
Some redundancy in this post, I’ll edit or delete it if you want.
A diy ebb flow that floods a “tray” with small nursery pots? Could use a tote that will nicely fit a “cement mixing tub/tray” (or bus pan) on top of it’s lid. But I’m sure you’ll find a hundred ideas searching.
The ppm / EC thing. I’m always talking about this. It’s a persistant cause of…“confusion”, to some degree. I know you (FE) likely already know all this…
When you mention 100ppm of “x”, and then mention two elements “Ca”(calcium" an “Mg”(magnesium), it makes it sound like you’re going to add 100 parts of something (Ca, and or Mg) but that’s not what’s happening. You’re just adding enough “salts” to change the electrical conductivity by 0.2 mS. Every 0.1 mS is “equivalent” to “50ppm” on the “500 scale”.
But then, when you show a screenshot of greenleaf’s “elemental nutrient calculator”, you are really showing the actual (estimated/calculated) elemental ppm of each element in the proposed nutrient solution. (It’s awesome that greenleaf provides this tool, by the way.)
The conversion scales are different, depending on the manufacturer/region of the product; equipment/meter (ie: EC meter), nutrient/fertilizer solution, feeding schedule, etc., it just depends what “x” company uses. EC is universal. All the meters measure EC, then they just do math of “EC x 500” (for example) 0.7 EC x 500 = 350"ppm". 0.7 EC x 700 = 490"ppm. Two meters at the different “scales” will both read the same solution as 0.7 EC, but will each display different “ppm” numbers.
Another solution, mixed with completely different inputs (random salts, or just the same ones but it different ratios) could also be mixed to the same EC, yet have unusable contents/ratios.
Oh - never mind, you got it. Haha. Well, I kinda like this topic.
If/when talking in meter “ppm” I use 500 scale because the math is easier/more intuitive.
But the “ppm” measured in soil tests is actually elemental ppm being measured, not an “EC conversion”.
There are meters that measure a specific element’s actual ppm in solution. Scienceinhydroponics has a short video showing one on his youtube channel.
My “fancy” meter, measures EC like all the rest, but it displays any of the EC units I want, auto switches from mS to uS when under a certain threshold, and can display any “conversion factor” of “ppm” units I choose too (x500, x700, or x any number I want).
I still have a sticker/note on one of my meters saying “1EC = 1mS = 1000uS”, and I sometimes get confused still. I like the uS unit because it’s a smaller unit to watch for changes when I mix up fertilizer, and it makes trying to change from “EC” to “ppm conversion equivalent” a bit easier, if needed, easier.
Some good links I had on this (EC, TDS, Manufacturers, etc.) if anyone wants to scan over:
Apera - EC, us, ms - How to convert
Apera - EC/TDS in Hydroponics
Jack’s Nutrients - Measuring the Strength of Nutrient Solutions
THC Farmer - Manufacturer’s ppm scale info
5 Likes
I wish it were that simple, but the calculations for nutrients are all still in elemental PPM. 
But indeed, I’ll be using EC for measurements of nutrient solution. 
Yessir. I’m most likely going to use 4" rockwool cubes but indeed. There are several options for the tray, many of which are quite a spatial compromise for the 23" x 23" I have available in the tent.
But the good news, it looks anyway, is that I finally have a MegaGarden en route!
I’ve had some difficulty getting one of those, but it’s 22" x 22" flood-drain and one of the only commercial options that seems designed for a 2x2. I’ve found several old grow logs of SOG setups exactly like what I’m trying to do.
@Nitt I appreciate the resouces. I actually have been starting to plow through all the Daniel Fernandez content I can find. I watched quite a bit a year ago but refreshing things now that I have some more comprehension is beneficial. Additionally been finding guidance in my chemistry textbooks. I have constant pangs of regret not paying any attention to chemistry when I was in school.
Last year I spent quite a bit of time in front of a spreadsheet computing elemental ppms, and converting to-and-from elemental ppm as I calculated quantities of dry and liquid ammendments for my living soil. At this point I readily speak that language and have a good (I think anyway, this is where Dunning-Kruger effect would bite me in my ass) handle on macro/micro nutrients and their effects and quantities to be expected in soil. Hydro is different, sure, but I find some comfort in using familiar knowledge.
The detailed elemental calculator is one of the reasons I picked MC as the fertilizer I used in my 2022 outdoor grow. Additionally, my soil testing has led me to appreciate the formula ratios better than I could in '22.
Having a meter that outputs PPM, indeed initially misinterpretted as you read - as somehow measuring solution elemental PPM. I thought, “sweet, that’s nice I can confirm my calculations.” Only to find, of course, that it can’t do that and just scales the EC measurement to produce an estimate of specific dissolved solids. As Daniel says, “NO TDS.” Of course, I’ll still look at my hypothetical nutrient ratios and quantities via elemental PPM, but I won’t be measuring them that way. EC from here on out.
I appreciate that you “have my back” so to speak on this stuff and don’t hesitate to post these things. A good chunk of the reason I post so many of my thoughts are so I can have some checks on my logic and not get too far off the rails. Thank you!
I felt like it was a theme in my outdoor living soil grow of generate a hypothesis, incomplete conclusion or even WRONG thought, a few posts later learn what’s actually happening and change course on that thought. I rather enjoy reading back on those evolutions, I can see the vulnerabilities in thinking, of which there are several. Additionally, typing out those thoughts in real-time certainly clarifies the thinking. I’m embracing being wrong on the internet. And it’s working 
Life lessons I feel a little late to the punch learning now at 37.
Cheers, and I always appreciate the input. Have a wonderful day guys, time for me to get my ass to work!
12 Likes