High density Cannabis planting

Smoker's Lounge
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So, I’d like to share a growing philosophy of mine I am hoping will spark a discussion and am interested in yall’s opinions.

I think Cannabis should be grown at high seeding densities. I’m talking 15-20,000 plants an acre. Maybe even more. I’d be willing to go as high as 40,000 and work backwards to the best planting density.
High density plantings smother weeds and provides more continuous habitat for beneficial insects, birds, and small mammals. You can really boost biodiversity, which is not a direct benefit to Cannabis but is important for the environment and society in general that biodiversity is high. That is another post though.
High density plantings also promote soil health by supplying root exudates that feed and attract beneficial microbes. The beneficial microbes can supply phytohormones to plant, increase plant stress tolerance and secondary metabolites, and inhibit soil borne disease and pests through a variety of modes of action.
Leftover roots decay and return unused or stored nutrients and organic matter to the soil. This improves soil texture, aggregation, fertility and more.
There are many more benefits, and I can mention them if people are interested.

Now for the primary reasons I believe we don’t plant high densities, and it’s not because it can’t be more profitable or the flower quality suffers. First is obviously prohibition. This has set back our knowledge base more than anything and continues to influence Cannabis growing even in legal states. Plant counts and cost of seed.

Plant counts: Plant counts limit growers and forces them to maximize their per plant yield and return. This increases risk for growers substantially. If there is a crop loss or plants can’t pass testing, growers lose money, sometimes a lot. High density plantings allow for a grower to lose plants and still have plenty to harvest. In cases of disease or pest outbreaks, higher density plantings results in the loss of some exterior plants but most interior plants remain ok. The larger the plot, the better protected the central plants are.

I have more thoughts on plant count, but we will talk seed prices.

Seed prices: First off, I absolutely believe people deserved to be paid a fair price for their work and contributions. But seed prices are only so high because of prohibition and while I dont want anyone to lose a job, I do want seed prices to fall dramatically. Like sell them 1000 for $10 cheap. If you are a breeder and that is how you make money and you are pretty pissed off right now, give me some time. I have honest ideas on how you can still make money.
There is literally no reason for cannabis seeds to be expensive. Even if you base the price on demand. One seed run can produce thousands of seed. Per plant. And we pay $10 per seed and are happy. Its not an issue of supply, its the risk involved.

Quick note: I’ve paid more than $10/seed before and I am not mad about it. It is the reality of our world right now but I think it is holding back Cannabis. It is no ones fault and I have been more than happy to send my money to breeders and have been blown away by how generous most seem to be.

So, I want to hear your thoughts on high density plantings. I’ve tried to keep this short (dont believe me, do you? Ask my wife) and stick to my main points. If there is anything you disagree with or don’t believe, let me know and I will try to post my supporting evidence.

Would you be willing to try it? Why or why not? If you’re interested feel free to check the image gallery for my pic thread (ill try and link to it). Indoors I usually try to run at least 15 plants for a 2x4 tent at a time ( IF I’ve got seed I’ve made, otherwise that is expensive as hell). I won’t go into all the motivation for that here but let’s just say that I like a variety. I buy donuts by the dozen.

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I don’t sell seeds but if I did it wouldn’t be 1000 for $10.

That’s madness.

Also are you taking fems? Because if not that’s a lot of culling and minimizing density.

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I’m feeling this idea! I’ve got some mail totes (16"x12"x10") (don’t tell canada post or local law enforcement), tempted to fill one with soil and launch 25 of same femmed run seeds and see what we get. 12.12 from seed of course

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So fem seed I think is too expensive to make to be used in this scenario. And while I’ve never made them, my understanding is it can be difficult to successfully turn and pollinate with viable seeds. Someone who knows more is welcomed to chime in on that though.

I have spent time thinking about the male/female problem though. There are seed lines of hemp available that are bred to have very low counts of male plants. If this could be done in rec and med (well, not if, it can, but its not a short task) then instead of removing half the plants it may just be 10%. That is reasonable to do and wouldn’t require too much of an additional labor cost to cull them. Just like detasseling corn.

I know the seed scene isn’t currently set up for this, but realistically if you do high throughput breeding you can have a pretty homozygous reduced male population in 4-5 years. Even if not, thats how sensimillia was originally cultivated which means it is doable.

This idea was inspired partly by Indian Landrace Exchange and their pictures of cultivation in places like India and Pakistan.

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Lovingly germed by canada post

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I’m not sure this is all true by my suggestion would be to put your money where your mouth is, do a massive seed run then have all the seeds to play with you could ever want.

The more worked seeds are the more expensive they tend to be.

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Once I started doing i havent looked back! For the most part. One of the principles behind the idea is that a given volume of grow space can only produce up to a certain amount of biomass. It may be 1 plant, or may be 100 plants depending on the media, the plant, and resource availability. Most of the time, its more than 1 plant to reach maximum possible production. You will lose a lot on yield per plant depending on plant count but in aggregate you will produce the maximum amount given the volume and resources. If I can get 1 lb off 1 plant (lord I wish it were true) or 1 oz off 16 plants, I take the 16 for variety.

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Oh I’m familiar with the seed game. Im not in it, but I know a few people.

I have already started the process of selecting for high density traits in my own seed line and have seen some improvement as a result. I know this isn’t feasible right now, but if people want to talk and sell “sustainably grown Cannabis” which is an excellent selling point for small scale growers and retailers, then the way we grow Cannabis needs to change.

I also don’t expect anyone to make a change, so I am doing what I can to be the change that I want to see. It won’t be a quick change but that doesn’t mean it won’t change.

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I can see this working for fiber but not really much else. Is that what you are going for?

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A huge single cola crop is definitely doable. Have you considered starting from mothers?

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Also…my selecting is just for my self and my hobby. Those seeds are not going to be sold, ever. I make enough money from my job to be happy and pay bills and all the talented breeders out there dont need more competition in a saturated market.

My background is agroecology and organic Cannabis planting systems, I likely view things from a point of view that is different from most growers here. I do know that Cannabis has potential to be a model sustainable agriculture product that has high value for growers and I think its important those things are talked about

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Buddy is doing a super dense 12.12 from seed grow…looks like it’s gonna be a wild one!

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I’ve seen cannabinoid plants at high densities before but never as high as what I want. The planting density would be closer to grain hemp than fiber, but the classic coming off grain hemp can be massive.

These plantings would also allow growers to use more modern farm equipment which means they can intercrop and have multiple crops to harvest, insulating them from major economic loss

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How do you account for the males? Just use the crop for extracts only?

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This is very close to what I do! Accept instead of tree pots with 1 plant each I do multiple plants in bigger cloth pots. Gonna follow this grow for sure, looks like ita gonna be exciting

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You can cull them. They do it in corn and other crops and if you plant in rows you can do the same. But you are absolutely right this a hurdle. My experience in the field has been that male plants are identifiable about 4-6 days before females. You get a week after that before pollen sacs open, give or take. Gives you 10 days to 2 weeks to cull.

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The current model for autos is fem seeds about 27-35k per acre. You can get the price per seed down to about a dollar.
The sheer numbers require fem seed or you need to start like 54-70k seeds to plant

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Thats awesome! Still too high for seed in my opinion, but if growers are profiting off their seed purchases I support it.

I know a lot of growers who will pop autos in April or may depending on growing zone and then have transplants vegging in GH. Autos come out, transplants go in.

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Is the culling a manual cull or is there machinery for that?

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When ny issued the first conditional license the thought process was plant an acre of autos and when they finished put in a crop of photo or fast photo. The seed costs are insane!
However if you look at anything connected to weed the costs soar.
@JustANobody it’s a manual cull since you need to check each plant. This is the original male cull followed by continuing inspection for herms

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