I believe we have been using the term ‘phenotype’ wrong for decades

Trying to post links to free online books not sure if it works. Would not kill supposed enthusiasts to pick one up occasionally.

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please send me in private mensage Mr Hill… ssmokeit

Thanks!!!

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Hahaha.
Books. The unwilling’s kryptonite.

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i search high times pdf´s…

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This one works fine :+1:

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Gracias Maestro!!! @TomHill

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that big huh im thinking a flower big enuf to use as a matress if camping and rollin over in the morning with a bong talk about wake and bake yee yee

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Oh shit, just realized it’s the Bos and Caligari one. Thank you very much, I was looking for that one.

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To keep (polygenic) models simple, it will often be assumed that each of the
considered loci is represented by only two alleles. Quite often this simplification
will violate reality. The situation of multiple allelic loci is explicitly considered
in Sections 2.2.2 and 8.3.3.
If the expression for the trait of interest is controlled by a locus with two
alleles A and a (say locus A-a) then the probability distribution of the genotypes
occurring in the considered population is often described by
Genotype
aa Aa AA
Probability f0 f1 f2
One may represent the probability distribution (in this book mostly the term
genotypic composition will be used) by the row vector (f0, f1, f2). The
symbol fj represents the probability that a random plant contains j A-alleles
in its genotype for locus A-a, where j may be equal to 0, 1 or 2. It has become
custom to use the word genotype frequency to indicate the probability of
a certain genotype and for that reason the symbol f is used.
The plants of the described population produce gametes which have either
haplotype a or haplotype A. (Throughout this book the term haplotype is
used to indicate the genotype of a gamete.) The probability distribution of
the haplotypes of the gametes produced by the population is described by
Haplotype
a A
Probability g0 g1
The symbol gj represents the probability that a random gamete contains j Aalleles
in its haplotype for locus A-a, where j may be equal to 0 or 1. The row
vector (g0, g1) describes, in a condensed way, the haplotypic composition
of the gametes. The habit to use the symbol q instead g0 and the symbol p
instead of g1 is followed in this book whenever a single locus is considered.
The term allele frequency will be used to indicate the probability of the
considered allele.
So far it has been assumed that the allele frequencies are known and hereafter
the theory is further developed without considering the question of how
one arrives at such knowledge. In fact allele frequencies are often unknown.
When one would like to estimate them one might do that in the following
way. Assume that a random sample of N plants is comprised of the following
numbers of plants of the various genotypes:
Genotype
aa Aa AA
Number of plants n0 n1 n2

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It’s a favorite, quite excellent. The maths get pretty heavy at times but folk should not let that detract them from absorbing the rest. Spoiler alert - breeders evaluate phenotypes :joy:

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I am more classical, I like Mendel’s laws… :sweat_smile:

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Some great conversation here. While we are sharing books, I recently stumbled on a classic at a garage sale. I bought some random pieces of small furniture and he threw in this soft cover. Been running my fingers through the pages quite a bit since - have jumped right into the book above posted too, jumping in now, really quality content- I do believe anyone making seeds can very easily arm themselves with the knowledge to make navigating projects much more rewarding.

I was able to find this book as an ebook. A true classic for anyone who wants a great understandable break down of some knowledge a foundation for any one who wants to take things a bit further than just smashing pollen and pistils.

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look at what they did without knowing what the genotype or the phenotype was, and I don’t think they did it that badly….

image

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Many moons ago on the other site, I remember you suggesting this book and the read went right above my young mind. I think I’m ready (to be humbled😅)

It’s a bit of a sidetrack, but is there any way to somewhat predict transgressive segregant ratios without growing hundreds and over time figuring it out?

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Mendel’s method is an excellent visual representation of the inheritance of a single trait. Yet each and every trait has a similar pathway, and during reproduction all the traits get shuffled at once so it is a pretty complex mess :sweat_smile:

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Regarding the multivarious and widely divergent interpretations of the word hay, I have mentioned in other threads that it seems that our main issue in forum discussions is the ambiguity of language and how we do not begin a conversation using a common and agreed upon glossary of terms. It is difficult to build a concensus if we don’t all start on the same page.

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Anthocyanins making a bud look purple do not take the place of chlorophyll… purple plants have chlorophyll too. It would be variegated plants show a lack of chlorophyll in their bleached sectors.

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Yes, mj botany is a timeless classic. The half sib selection and open pollination I’ve done were all born from reading examples in that book where breeders had backed themselves into corners and drove lines into the ground. I still get ideas from that book.

See that pollination bag on a branch of a plant on the cover? I will attempt a type of reverse modification of that on an upcoming open pollination of Haze. Before introducing males to the room I will bag the top half of females leaving those portions seedless for evaluation in isolating excellent examples to be clonally propagated.

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What I understand is that the phenotype is what you see, the flowers, the branches, the leaves, etc…
and the genotype is the changes in the DNA and you can only see that if you sequence its DNA chain.
and you work seeing the variations in graphs.

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