Landraces and heirloom (Part 1)

[romanoweed]

I just remember there is another Line, ithey said its hallucinogenic, its a autoflower Ducksfoot Strain x Thai , said to be hallucinogenic… if i recall r.

So, you could be right, but there is just no evidence.

Had this fight also somewhere else where they said landraces are outcrosses, i said there is no real evidence. Then a breeder came in and said, that this isnt really known if Landr are outcrosses… So, this gave me a good feel, finally a professional breeder tells them its not known.

I guess if a shortflowering Landrace was created, then it was probably a very high class outcross, meaning only the best afghani parents were kept… In a Land that can happen, its for free, and happens over Time automatically… Also the best percentage can be found, also there will be a subseuent aclimatisation… If you try to recreate that just by outcrossing at home… Good luck. lol

I think this subsequent selection, and the high numbers would be very important to nut incoporate a hybrid type tiredness and exhaustion… Its just superior probably… Much more resources in a Land than a growroom…

[GREANDAL]

@romanoweed

Is there a magical sibirian Palm species, or was it selection?

Thank you @romanoweed for that. I laugh so hard my ribs hurt.

[GREANDAL]

From a chemical perspective I believe the time taken in flowering of such (Thai, Mexi, powerful sativa) varieties probably contributes to the complexity of the cannabinoid profile. Trace elements and minerals are very slow to become available in the correct form for plants to take up.

[romanoweed]

Yes, grenadal, the trippyest weed is from longflowering .

BUT i heard very promising reports, especially from a 70s Mexican Strain 10 weeker, and it was rated from a looongtime hunter of just Mexicans to be one of his trippyest… Yes, it did compeete against longfloering 70s mexican.
CRAZY.

What i have felt when growing a Vietnamese here at North, it just came to my mind, that this Effect of an equatorial is strongly inherited…
I felt that any Afghani, Swiss Landrace (yes there was a swiss landrace) , turkish, any such strains just are very distictly different in high.

So, it would be wise to take a Strain from a tropical region with Moutains… There are tripreports from Congo Black, from fatleaved Congolese Strains… Strains from equatorial mountains. Youll find those fast fatleaved Congolese from Kilmanjaro the highest Mountain in africa, you do! and also from Veitnam, and also from Mexican, its thaat simple… And those have this very special quality…

Hoabac 13 Weeker HAS this happy feeling of a tropical Landrace, so… thats a good startingpoint.
(my latest research showed me that hoabac was collected in 2007, so im since then nomore so super convinced of it as before, but it is special. )

I just find that you literally get a tropical feeling from tropical Mountain strains, and you dont get this feeling from say a middle eastern turkish, its different .

I found those Hoabac, and also Turkish the closest to my liking BECAUSE LANDRACE, or complex LANDRACE OUTCROSS, again as comparison the Kalimist, its slightly behind, i will use Kalimist only for small percentages and a Cambodian vibe, but on its own i preffere a strictly shortflowering SE Asian, as they were found, theyre very special.

[romanoweed]

But on the other hand, i havent so many comparisons., Just Kali mist for the shortflowering highclass Hybrid…( and pure gooey - gooeybreeder)

[Wuachuma]

The psychedelia of Congo Black (Black Magic African) that DJ Short described is not a strain but a curing/fermenting technique. Its basically cobbed cannabis.
Tangewa from ICMag has a super thread on Cobbed Malawi and journals his experiences cobbing landraces and hybrids alike. He gets psychedelic results from most everything he tries. Jack Herer / Amnesia haze gave him very trippy experiences, as did pure Malawi, Durban, Zamal.
People say ACE’s Malawi is psychedelic, and I agree. But it should be noted that several Vibes Co inner-circle members were banned from ICMag for exposing that the early breeding of Malawi at ACE hybridized the line with PCK to shorten flowering time, add potency, and really they just couldnt find a stable male in the pure Malawi.

As far as short flowering tropical landrace, Im not sure if Sinai/Egypt is ‘tropical’ but its a very quick-flowering landrace that throws out some sativas and some hybrid hashplants. I grew one sativa from the line that was an epic Durban phenotype though it yielded like pencil stick Durban, too. Sinai, being a choke-point between Africa and Middle East is obviously a medly/hybrid of various landraces over many many years. So, yes, the result of that shortflowering and autoflower trigger is a result of hybridizing.
Now, Zamal throws out autoflowering triggered plants, but they also flower more than 12 weeks, so they arent shortflowerin because La Reunion Island is so remote that its all indigenous genetics there.

[GREANDAL]

Three very different sorts of plants

VB from @slain. Two similar and one with interesting short fat leaves.

Beldia two distinct phenos

Some interesting differences in water requirements. The Beldia I don’t water. Since transplant I have watered them only once. Desert plant. The VB I water every other day and have fabric “mulch” covers to slow evaporation.

[romanoweed]

im yet again unshure @Wuachuma . Dj short said in an interview that congo black he smoked was taken from africa and grown in mexico… this points thowards it wasent the curing. (im unshure if he said it was taken from africa) , but anyay…
i dont think thats the only reason…
If you were right, then i could now ferment my landrace and fly to space possibly?

im not convinced. What i have reasons to beleive, is that there were black congolese, you can simply find a pic after typing it into google and finding one on thacfarmer - com.
so…
Curing might have been part of it, but i have no good trust that it THE ONLY reason. There was black “congolese” and funnily often when there is black pigmentation there is psychedelic effect.(congo, vietnam, and i believe Mexican has this coloration too)

[romanoweed]

Again, has anyone cob-cured his random landrace or hybrid strain, and did it become outofbody weed? show me a case, im openminded! its probably part of the equation, not the whole equation

[Wuachuma]

The way Dj described it - and I confirmed this talking to him in person at Emerald Cup about 4 yrs ago - is that the weed was, black, crumbly, and unappealing to look at.
Pretty much the exact description of cobbed weed.

It was quite the mystery for decades until Tang came on the boards and showed how locals in Malawi cob their weed and said that its a common thing all over Africa and other cultures.

[romanoweed]

im happy with that. still. you dont find outofbodyexperiences very often. and I HAVE PERSONALLY SMOKED THINLEAVED UNCURED FRESH GREEN LANDRACE WEED, STILL A BIT WET, 10 DAYS DRIED DIRECTLY FROM AN INDOOR GROW, and had the deepest experience in my life. hallucinogenic extra plus. Its not the whole equation. Tripweed came from congo, vietnam and mexico, thats still a fact, pretty shure, alltho i never had too much mentionings of colors of the weed from those FACTUAL tripreports from this regions. cobcured or not.

And these type reports come consistently and soley from roundabout those locations… again, a few outliners with hybrids, rare… more rare than landrace tripreports. i did my research you know, i have my patterns that have repeated over and over.

[romanoweed]

We have alot factors at play probably, but sometime its dilluting the whole picture if we trow in every possible explonation. I have exactly to avoid ending up with zero conclusion, read the net loooong time.

And the overall most consistent patterns are tripweed comes from those regions. im lucky to have found this consenus, and lucky to know it works uncured too, and lucky to have another friend who tripped on weed, he also doesent believe in cobcuring as sooo important (i mean how many tripped on weed).

you can trust in my researchs conclusions, thats all youre left with… i understand curiosity, but im pretty shure, youre loosing track, and all you could is do the same amount of tripweed-report searching, wich takes countless hours,… im firm. and try to leave room for error, so, i have no idea. peace

[Wuachuma]

Indeed

There’s a great thread on ICMag called The Search For Tripweed

Zamaldelica pretty much holds top honor in that thread (La Reunion Island x Thai x Malawi).
Ive had some real trippy experiences with pure mexicans, like almost unpleasant. Wheras other Mexican lines were very euphoric. But that euphoria is not as consistent as say SE Asian / Thai weed.

[Upstate]

You are assuming that the weed these people smoked was not hybridized pot and there’s no way to know. They certainly were not experts on landrace strains and I can’t imagine an indigenous Farmer on Earth 50 years ago that even knew of the word landrace. Hardly anyone knew the word before the internet. Did DJ Short confirm that he was smoking a landrace? No. He wouldn’t have thought to ask. No one would have thought to ask back then. And then he was getting the weed from someone who got it from someone , never from the farmer . Never from a guy that says my family has grown this for 200 years . And we always see this suspicious short flowering associated with these potent strains in areas known for longer flowering land races. No one even cared about landrace purity until the last few years with the exception of some Die Hard collectors. Back when these potent varieties were found people were getting seeds out of imported bud in most cases and being told what the bud was by somebody that probably didn’t know. If some Colombian pot was smuggled through Mexico it was likely called Mexican by some people. I bought all sorts of Black Market weed over the years, most of it in the 90s and I never got more than extremely limited information about what I was purchasing. It was either green brick, or brown brick or kind bud.

@romanoweed

again, you have never presented so much evidence that a 13 weeker SE Asain is Hybrid per example, you didnt, im

The strains you are speaking of come from a latitude known worldwide for very long flowering plants. When there is an exception to the rule the burden of proof is not on the rule, but the exception.

[romanoweed]

@Upstate

You are assuming that the weed these people smoked

mamaia, i said word for word, i dont know WETHER it is hybredized or not.

further, in other posts i brought REASONS, EVIDENCES wich poit totally slightly thowards a correlation between seclusion and tripweed.

you make it look like i JUST assume… whera i just, in totally other post listed the data from my tiredless research, and again, it points thowards that in Congo, aswell as in Vietnam, those to regions were rather less frequented than the closeby states, more secluded, just veeeeery slightly and bouth places i heard of tribes having the trippy stuf. Thats not justblind assumtions, thats research leading to this very slight, and totally minimal evidence thats all.

When i ask you for evidence for what you think, that its hybredized, i got (a loogbook entry) , and the notion that germans were stationed around this Area of cono.

So, your evidence, is so far not in that sense compleete. You would have to apply a higher concentration of travelling (like these germans) than in other places… Then it would be a full Point, that can be used to build a Pattern, if you find a secound point…

And you would slightly have that point in north vietnam where french invaded north vietnam…
But you must present the higher FREQUENCY of these travels than other places, wich you havent. Thats how my mind works atleast… find patterns.

And again, i rate my evidence as very small, its just seclusion, and “beeing tribes” and tribes are more loners and sceptical of outside…
Thats minimal… so im basically, and i said it, not assuming too much, as close as nothing…

How in the world shall i represent my logical thinkingpoatterns then… i think my way of presentation is fair, openminded… i dont come and tell it is this it is that…

[romanoweed]

@Upstate

Did DJ Short confirm that he was smoking a landrace?

college, i read multiple threads about black african, i AM openmindd… soo, i found that multiple people have had very special effects on “black african” …
yet again, my logical thinking patterns allowed me to extract “black african” as a special strain. OK? allright.

So, further, i yet again have never said it comes from africe. I needed the short anektote, that dj short thought it came from africa, to clearify, that HE DIDNT smoke imports that CAME over mexico, but instead how he mentioned it were a Strain grown in Mexica. Trough that i tried to imply that its possible that cobcuring wasnt the case…
It was not about black magican beeing hybrid or not… mamaia.

you can imply as often as you wish that im "assuming, " but you will fail. I study, am openaminded, searching for patterns, and what i find is minimal, but it is, so i basically dont know if stuff is hybredized or not… Im not 15 years old hearing word Landrace, and implying oooh its from a region… mamia.

[romanoweed]

ok, why do i apply balck african to african origin.

well, people told that its mexican in fact, and people told its a random hybrid, also people told its just african.

so:
principially the highdescription has similarities to african. and very short: yes there was congolese, just strains collected in Congo that were veeeeeeeeeeery speical…
so, the balck african was reported to be balck. Yes, and african collected strains were reported to be black.
also african strains are reported to be among “enrergizing” “caffeinlike” “fighter type of effect” in its effect. thats a common direction of african landraces…

And yet again, the “black african” wich we dont know if its something compleetly else, tadadada: had if i recall right this fighter-type of qulity.
So, theoretically you could come to conclusion it is just african collected. possibly… thats all. Also dj short did never imply its from somewhere else… the opposite, he talked about those african tribe who grew it (acording him)
anyway… the main point was that shortflowering trippy weeds are often found in Landraces, whatever Landraces now are, hybrids, doesent matter, but this was the point… so if youre openminded and take “black african” from the list of shortflowering tripweeds. Then youre still left with 10 weeker Mexican that hit the highest score for a Mexican Landrace hunter… i dint hundert percent understand his verdict, but thats basically what he said, roundabout.

Same with a Durban that made people hallucinate, and im slightly foggy, but i recall it was a 10 weeker aswell…
overall, thin data wether black african was now just african (acording dj short it was i think) , you can adress trippy 10shortflowering weed to landrace regions of legendary status.

I think Afghani i had one hallucination report too. forgot this. I just most often heard from thes trippy short landraces, i cant change this fact. i cant, the facts i cant change. And imho i cant talk more softspoken really, i try to make no strong conclusions, and often plainly deny any determining conclusion… so i dont know where you see such a strong assumtion in it… Trust me, if i would find more hallucinogenic Hybrids then i would probably be interested… Oh i forgot nj piff, but i read 100s sides about NY piff, and i cant say if it was a landrace or a hybrid… even if it was, now we are in the 16 weeker territory. and hell i have much more tripreports from 16 weeker landraces, trust me.

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the idea that i m misslead by wrong labelings where a landrace bud came from is also questionable.

i have reports from vietnam, guess from who? from soliders who smoked the plants they found, or what was sold in vietnam.

its super clear for this region, undeniable that THERE was it COLLECTED. im not 15 years old, i wuestion what i have, and also for Southamerica there are 1st hand reports… i see very little chance for beeing mistacken on that one… Again, i serched long and openmindedfor TRIPWEED, hell i didnt trust one, not two, not 3, no, like 10 tripreports to heaven… thats were i am now for vietnam/thailand, like 3 Tripreports for congo, and many almost trips, dunno how to say, and like 10 very high reports for Middleamerica,. thats almost shure … its always the same story from where the real stuff was experienced… especially for vietnam. im almost thingking: here we go again when i find a new tripreport. lol

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(i dont know why it writes this in Fat letters)
Also incase you understand my use my wording LAndrace as calim, no , thats just the word we use for a Strain collected in a certain area. there comes no claim with it… thats how we speak, and of corse a landrace CAN be hybredized. thats linguistically a perfect statement

And no, im not mistacken by columbian going over mexico and then beeing misslabeled as mexican. i have read such stuff, and since then concluded this 4 years ago… mamaia. Again, im not 15 years old, i read all the concerns, and around middleamerica i therefore am very unconclusive , and look at it as middleamerican… So, ok, in favor of slightly shorten the text and relax my brain, i just used Meican as the “stongest from the region”. Sorry for that unbelevable unperfection. I cant nomore. you knwo… i have serached patterns, and every time i put out 10000000s words, and full patterns, somebody comes with “what if” what if cobcuring was the reasons, what if misslabeled, what if it was laced, what if some regions nobody sampled weed and hence less tripreports… and every single time i then present you hourlng reasonings, based on the patterns i found, often partially, or like now the whole biblical mounting story, every reasoning, every pattern combined in one post… puh, its… i dunno… its like i said, the only other alternative theory is like people just pick one uncertainity, and getting lost… what if its cobcured, and thats the reason… im telling it softer they just end up with, we dont know… and thats logical thinking… the good i have spent years to find every tripreport i ever can TO find atleast very very slight patterns , like inbreeding as a possible thing in vietnamese and congolese longflowering strain… or also to concludethat shortflowering black african or shortflowering vietnamese may be hard to recreate better than just the vietnamese collected 70s strain there already is.

anyway.

@Wuachuma

Zamaldelica pretty much holds top honor in that thread

you mean on icamg, yes the tripweed thread is less “trippy” than the revival of sativa thread, and well… So, the most potent is and stays outofbody experiences, and just trust me , ive researched AAAAAAAALLLLLLOOTTTTT. thats due to that i had an insane experience on unkown weed, and i did all i could to find tripreports, and zamaldelica did not hit highscores really… NY PIFF has hallucinations reports… so you wanna tell me zamaldelica has hallucination reports? I can anwser for you, ive not seen one yet, and cause i reaserched so much, i gues you cant find one either. (that was a bit ruff, but lets see if i proove right)

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@Upstate

When there is an exception to the rule the burden of proof is not on the rule, but the exception.

thats philosphic, and zero scientifical… its just a claim of how rules behave… And ive never ever heard such a philosopie beeing use to proove somethin, or find something out.
Normally rules get found out by patterns imho… but i didnt invent or find out something yet… ahm probably i did, i once worked a s audio-scientist (freeworking) and created a plugin i yet have to test…
imho thats not a scientifical rule thats more like phylosopy

science is different in that it has to proove, and that with a higher rate of TRUTH, than the rate of UNTRUTH… so as soon as i find you exeption of a rule-as not prooving , and more often then it does, then its not truth, and is not science, atleast not official…

Also you frame it as “exeption”. however, if i correlate climate in a more complex way than just “equatorial belt” , and take into consideration “fair amounts of water” " mountains in the region, or mountainregion", and per example “seclusion” . then i end up with a rule almost…

[Wuachuma]

Lil too ruffy here for me to continue direct responses

I had a friend who’s father was in the navy. He got stationed in Africa and experienced black magic african several times. Most importanly, he experienced the same trip in different countries in Africa (so its not a strain, but a technique)
talking with him in person mirrored exactly what i heard from dj short - in person, not 2nd hand accounts on the internet.
Cobbed cannabis is also found in Central and South America where it dries out really fast.

Cannabis is one of theee most underrated psychedelics out there.
I’ve given people LSD-like trips with my cannabis oil (or infused birthday cake) People thought I dosed them, nope, just weed. And Ive also smoked Piff in NYC and thought it was laced because I was tripping - hard.

As always, the only absolute answer is: It Depends

[Gpaw]

There’s something special with cobbed cannabis.
Near as I’ve been able to figure out it is a fermentation process, like tea.
I’ve been thinking about wrapping buds up in banana leaves (local grocery store) and trying to mimic the process.

Cheers
G

[api312]

All this congo black talk makes me excited to try Bodhi’s new cross using it!

I think, ultimately, the psychedelic thing comes down to user tolerance to a large extent as well. I find most folks who vehemently insist herb can’t be psychedelic are smoking all day every day in large quantities and those who find psychedelic experiences often smoke less. Having gone from smoking 5-7 grams of flower a day at one point in my life down to .5-.7 grams of flower per day (and missing days from time to time) these days I tend to have many more psychedelic experiences on weed. I also think that everyone’s internal biochemistry plays into it. When I was a kid before I’d tried any substances I’d see lights / color patterns in the shadows at nighttime that once I had taken psychedelics I associated to being similar to the tracers you see on lsd / mushrooms. When I smoke weed often it will intensify those tracers that are already somewhat present for me. Generally I think I’m more susceptible to open eye visuals than some so again, I experience it more intensely and often with cannabis. My gf smokes almost the exact same amount as me and the same strains as we generally just smoke together always but she will often not have the same OEV’s i experience from the same weeds and dosages. Often though, those weeds that are truly psychedelic for me make things “look prettier” for her. So I guess… TLDR everybody’s different and everyone’s experience with psychedelic strains will thus be commensurately different as well. SO much of this is how it interacts with your body chemistry so I think the zealots on either side of this argument should generally just accept everyone’s experience is going to be different. Now that said, there are absolutely strains with more visual / psychedelic aspects. The pure Thai sativas I’ve smoked tend to bring that out much more than a cookies cross… but, Blue Dream can bring it out sometimes too if it’s done right!