Landraces and heirloom

[ChongoBongo]

@deeez99

If you are breeding for desired results then your parental plants should be homogenous and true-breeding for specific traits (also known as IBL). IBL is not vague to me

Emphasis my own In trying to create an objective definition, I have a hard time taking subjective qualities like desire and “to me” into consideration

I don’t disagree that breeding two stable lines will result in more predicable progeny relative to breeding two less stable lines. But you’re still breeding two lines. You may call it chucking or fucking or “gettin it on” or any other slang phrasing but we’re all still talking about the same scientific word for that, which is breeding and the same terminology referring to filial generations of that line applies.

[ChongoBongo]

@Cormoran

Maybe this is close to an “official” definition? It says about 20 generations

My case in point. IIRC Allard defined it as I think F5+. You can see how these definitions shift with time because like the rest of taxonomy it’s kinda arbitrary

[Cormoran]

It’s also simply impossible to lock down exactly what generation it happens, assuming you define an inbred line as one that’s fully homozygous. That’s the real qualification, not how many generations it’s been bred… it’s a lot tougher for people to count though.

[deeez99]

I think I just have it in my mind that breeding is done with an intentional outcome and pollen chucking is more like hey let’s see what happens. So that’s the context in which my statements come from. If you swap the words desired with intended then that sentence still reads the same to me.

[drgreensleeves]

I thought it’s 80% homozygous was considered ibl in food crop production and that’s what the context of most accredited literature

[deeez99]

@ChongoBongo

the same terminology referring to filial generations of that line applies.

This is definitely not a new topic. I’ll continue to use F1, F2, etc. in the same way that everyone else does as you describe but I don’t think my original post was inaccurate.

Cannabis crosses are not F1s, so says science!

[image] Phylos Bioscience: Currently the way the cannabis industry uses the term F1 hybrid is wrong. An F1 hybrid (or filial 1 hybrid) is the first filial generation of offspring of distinctly different parental inbred types. Cross-pollination involving two true-breeding, or homozygous, parents, result in an F1 generation that are homozygous and consistent in seed form. There are very few, if any, true F1 hybrids in cannabis because every modern variety is heterozygous (highly variable). The P…

Does conventional breeding and filial notation apply to today's polyhybrids?

Watts defines an F1 as: the heterozygous offspring between two homozygous but unrelated seedlines. This makes sense and gives the F1 generation a unique combination of traits; uniform phenotype but not true breeding. This is important in the plant breeding world. This means that when a customer buys F1 seeds that they should expect uniform results. source- Watts. 1980. Flower & Vegetable Plant Breeding Grower Books, London

[Upstate]

Was that you that gave me some of those and Lesotho?

@CADMAN

But I hope they grow it and make more.

I offered the seed somewhere up above…

[ChongoBongo]

@deeez99

This is definitely not a new topic.

and “filial” is not a new word

https://en.m.wiktionary.org/wiki/filial

@Wikitionary

3. (genetics) Of a generation or generations descending from a specific previous one.

They quote gregor mendel ( from here on page 101) who specifically mentions F1’s of impure parents

EDIT: I think the quote was actually from William Castle. I’m not sure why gregor is listed as a coauthor but briefly looking around that doesn’t appear to be true. But still, having the shorthand defined over 110 years ago in a biology textbook is good enough for me

[medmanbrand]

Here’s some peru (north jungle) grown in manitoba.
Straight skunk

mm

[Sadboy]

Is this the same cut that Mr. Toad From Bone Yard Seeds uses in his crosses?

[Buzz]

F1 is just offspring resulting from a parental cross

[GREANDAL]

‘70vb x Thai VB courtesy @Upstate

Matori from @Shiv9545

Kalamata (rsc)

[ChongoBongo]

@GREANDAL

Kalamata (rsc)

Very cool! I have a few running right now myself. Had my eye on it for awhile - it’s just about the northernmost sativa I’ve ever heard of that isn’t a ruderalis

[GREANDAL]

Thank you I like that it’s essentially guerrilla weed from a rough climate, hopefully weather won’t be an issue.

[drgreensleeves]

That’s cool are y’all going to make any seed , kalamata? And I’m looking for a veit black male just throwing that out there lol

[deeez99]

Nice lineup @GREANDAL, are those the 3gal grow bags? Was thinking of trying those out this season as the black pots just seem to roast roots around here.

@drgreensleeves I do have some VB pollen in the freezer from this past fall that I have no immediate plans for. You are welcome to it and I can send a pic of the male.

[drgreensleeves]

Ooh! Cool thanks @deeez99 do you by any chance remember what kind of stem rub he had? That’s pretty awesome you have a picture too and any other info would also be wonderful like if he was fast, same, or slow to flower? Is touchy or likes some punishment ? Sorry I didn’t mean to bombard you with questions and it’ll be awhile , if you think it will keep?

[GREANDAL]

@deeez99

3gal grow

Two gallon bags. Yeah they’re easy for this stage. Don’t have to work a root ball out of a pot when I transplant.

[deeez99]

@drgreensleeves I really can’t recall what the stem rub was like but it was a really nice robust plant that toughed out the strong winds and monsoon here. I really enjoyed the structure and leaves. It really didn’t show sex until late July and the first photo below is from the first week of August. The pollen I kept was collected Sep 25th. I was pretty excited for this one initially and was really bummed about it being a dude.

I found a pic when it was in flower also, kinda hard to see it clearly though with all the trees in the background.

[drgreensleeves]

Right on! Yup definitely a stud do you think the pollen would keep till like the beginning next year? @deeez99 to monsoon season? What country? If US what state?