so are you saying that the genetic material degrades inside the seeds over time? or is there another mechanism that reduces the “optimal window” and since i’ve now quoted it, what is the definition of that phrase?
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Yes, but it’s not to take as a “doomsday” thing. I’m talking about an optimal window to use the DNA at its plain potential (with the vigor/vitality required to fully express).
For the definition, it’s more about a combo of degradation (it’s living) : oxydation, damages to the proteins of the DNA and of course vitality (implying the spectrum of expression and their intensity).
I’ve to add, to “pragmatize” the little discussion, that actually the cryo is the tech reducing substantially the most these degradations.
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I have never heard that 2 years is the optimal window for cannabis seeds to fully express their vitality.
Do you have anything backing this claim?
Hemp industry ? ^^
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just my 2 cents but I’ve grown almost exclusively dark heart and equilibrium cuts, mostly DH for the past 6+ years before finding OG and switching to seeds, never had a single dud. Sorry to hear your one experience was bad but DH is/was good in my book
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Just my own personal observations on maximum germ rates after making and running seed for many years.
Stored well, outside of fridge(cool, dry, minimal fluctuations) 2-3 yrs
Stored in a dry fridge after a good cure 4-6yrs
Stored in the feezer- foreign territory for me on when max germination potential begins to wane.
To be clear, I’m not trying to imply that germ rates drop of drastically after said times but for me, these are when I get maximum, vigorous germination and the fewest stalls and no goes.
Again, no scientific evidence, just my own observations.
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Issues regarding germination:
Yes shelf stored seeds, can last a while
But as fletcher put it, ITS A LIVING ORGANISM
It’s not meant for storage, it’s a survival mechanism, and as @Fuel mentioned, even dormant, these things break down
They’re less vigorous, more prone to mold, damping off, etc
I’m not saying you need to worry, but it’s just how it works
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It’s not a human made tool to last many years, it’s a survival mechanism of the plant for a couple seasons etc
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Also, propagating cuttings in the vegetative state for decades (sour, chem, og, afghani, etc) as pointed out by someone I know, is not a designed or natural state of this naturally flowering plant that normally lives for 1 grow season.
You can do it, I have a plant from 1991, but people express valid concerns about the effects on the plant and the genome over time.
Tissue culture helps with this, but part of my point is, these are tools with limitations, not perfect genetic records
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Maintenance practices play a lot too, TC avoid this part i must confess. It’s not magical and traded with sterility and purity risks of each numerous steps of the process, reagent’s grade included for the most advanced stuff.
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Ok, though I do generally disagree that 2-3 years outside fridge is enough to noticeably decrease germ rates. (I’m not quite sure how this is subtly measured, if no drastic drop off occurs). Maybe the shells need to be manually cracked, which is often the case even with fresh seeds. Ive had seeds from fresh breeder drops explode out of the dirt, and others limp along.
I do also disagree they are generally less vigorous, prone to damping off or mold (this is just my personal experience also). I don’t think this is just how it works, not in this sort of 2 year timeframe anyways.
The argument fuel put forward is, as far as I can understand him, that DNA expression is compromised after two years such that there is a noticeable reduction in the expression and intensity of traits. I’ve never heard this argument. And “the hemp industry” is a pretty vague answer. I’m definitely open to looking at some studies on this, as it’s news to me.
I think it’s often not even possible to know how old seeds are when bought “new” from a seedbank. Obviously, selfmade seeds are different in that respect.
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First of all. Now you have me wanting to go back to grad school so I can play in this gals fields.
But could you point the study out for me? I’m hunting, but am not quite finding the one you mentioned
Here’s a list of her labs papers
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That’s accurate. Now i’m talking about industrial processes that manage tons of seeds, reinventing the wheel for nothing is not in my habits.
BUT, keep in mind that my mission on Earth is not to give you anything you’re asking on a silver plate. Obvious leads are far enough for my taste.
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Hmmm…she may not have the paper out yet after all. I will have to go through my computer and see if I have a preview of it. I worked with one of the other researchers I know to get feral hemp samples from Indiana for her. She gave a presentation of her results at a conference we both attended, it was super interesting and helps to track the evolution of cannabis populations both wild and domesticated.
I’ll let you know when I track it down and try and post it here!
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No hurry, I appreciate it! I did notice she has a couple of conference posters linked, I didn’t read them because I’m on my phone and they were too tiny. I’ll go back when I’m on a computer to look at them. Even if the papers aren’t published, all the pretty charts and conclusions are usually on the poster
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Clones and seeds are both great ways to preserve genetics.
However, when cloning, I would never clone more than once, never clone a clone.
When you clone clones and keep doing that then eventually they will become infertile and very weak and eventually the cuts will stop rooting and then all is lost.
Seeds can keep going infinitely.
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In this era where egos are more breeded than plants, you certainly are a breath of fresh air.
Seems like all the answers are already here then, so I’ll show myself out.
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It’s very fresh lol
She have a bunch of interesting papers on hemp, thx for the ref.
It comport more risks to let age the plant, generally already very old for a lot of cuts in circulation. It will sound harsh but it’s just root mass fetishism, sincerely.
With pristine maintenance and an extended knowledge on the cut and its signs, it’s possible to last without much risks. The clock still running and i personally hate to maintain cuts over seeds, but it’s a doomsday statement. Pragmatically again.
The long term on TC is not a concern and proven since a while with “normal” gardening that it’s reliable to preserve a very long time different “essences”. I repeat, for our little green word TC is relatively new in practices but it’s already industrialized since a while just beneath our eyes each time we visit a “gardening supermarket”.
Now the part of enigma is to know if the asexual hybridation used to regenerate wounded DNA affect the preservation of the weed, but more important, the progeny on long term.
Anyway it’s the way of autonomy and awareness. If i’m opposed to some details, i basically agree fully with the main concern.
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