A very good point.
That shit will stay in your cloner if you don’t clean it well enough.
It gets into the inners of the pump and waits there to spring into action when the time is just right.
I use pool shock in mine let her run a few days if you have to.
I will go as heavy as 1 tablespoon per gallon.
Really I just grab some and toss it in there…LOL
A little warmer is better, for awhile. Long enough for them to root. I’m guilty of being too cold.
BTW
The slime is most likely Pythium.
That was in the separate quarantine container, not cloner after cleaning. I thought maybe being closer to rooting they would recover in the h202 bubbler I made but too much time had passed by. Im learning my tap is highly prone to pythium regardless of higher or lower temp so cloning may have to be 100% bottled, which isn’t a big issue getting 30 gall a month drinking water delivered
I will get pool shock to throughly cycle clean afterward. I don’t think I’m seeing any browning. I’ve had a couple smashed stems from the collar, maybe a bit too long spraying caused a few to be soggy too, so I’ve had to cut a few more but not from mushy or tanning ends, but I’ll know from this week through next if I’m still in a rout. The NL2 has a lot of callouses so should be any day. As long as they root I’ll know it’s in the clear from the rot
Yeah I checked out the thread. Good info, especially the DO ratio to temp. Afternoon time can get it a little higher at 75, but at night I can get to 70. Im trying to stay between that zone as I get closer to the rooting point. Now that it’s cooler weather I don’t have to battle a W facing sun magnifying the heat during the day.
Just FYI I run my sprayers 24-7.
You can use regular bleach if you have no pool shock.
About a capful in 3-5 gallons of water, this is for when the clones are in the cloner.
This way after cleaning you keep the cloner sterile as possible.
You may need to add another capful in about 5 days after you start up the cloner too.
If the water starts to get funky change it out right away.
Good luck, you got this.
Here is a link to boost your knowledge a bit.
@shag What does it mean when a cut mushes in between the collar ? I’ll have to assume it means the rot is still present, not strangled by the collar it’s self ? I said I found one earlier, but another has me suspecting…
Also what do lots of callouses but no roots mean… ? It looks it’s there at the rooting stage, but still nothing… I don’t understand this stasis.
PS after you said drop a cap full of bleach in, I did. Measured out to 5ml. Later the water smelled awful. I dumped, wiped down w disinfectant wipes, rinsed and refilled
I don’t know what else to do. I’m beginning to think rot has permeated in the plastic or deeper in the pump if the cleaning isn’t working…perhaps a stronger bleach solution is needed ? Would the pool shock be better ? Maintain lower temp under 70 as long as possible ? Running out of options short of tossing the pump and getting a new one and if that’s not the fix, abandoning aero cloning. Not buying another unit
Sometimes they get damaged when we put them in there.
Quick question…Did ya clean the collars too?
If not then the funk could still be on the collar.
I put a sealed lid on my cloner put all the collars and everything in it and run the pool shock solution sometime for a day or even 2.
I have heard you can microwave some of em too.
Some get warped though so test one.
This can happen when you still have funk in the cloner.
The funk seems to keep the roots from striking.
I have had them do that and never produce a white root.
Sometime a quick fix can be dip em in rooting powder and put em in soil with bottom heat, but that is 50/50 but usually better than leaving them in the cloner to rot.
BTW
It is good to cut off those branching sites, not totally off, trimmed flush.
Any leftover material can rot feeding microbes.
What is your current cloner water temp? just an approximation.
These are new collars, but I’m starting to think they may be damaging. It’s a tight fit in the site, which I have apply pressure to push in and the stem hole is large letting them slip low w thinner branches…could bad incompatible collars be the problem ?
I think I just realized I got sent hard collars and not soft.
82 bucks for perma clone collars 
So it is still the indicator of rot present…ugh. I’ve decided to add 14 ml of UC roots…do you think a stronger dose might correct ?
Well at the start I was trying to maintain 78-82. My heat mat drove it up to 86 one time, but I dumped it after that. I took out the heat mat last week after the change, and let the pump warm it to 74. 74-75 during the day, 70-72 during night. Fillable ice packs drop it to 67-68, but slowly rises in between 73-75. Stays cooler if not a sunny day, but I notice it can rise quickly if it is a clear sunny day, so it’s a fight at times to cool it.
Roots like it cool, but to sprout they like heat.
I would not use ice, it maybe shocking them into thinking it is winter ect.
I am usually good with the temp swing I get running just a pump.
If I wanna get real fancy I will use a fish tank heater, submersible of course.
That should keep temps real even for ya.
I have one and only use it if it gets real cold here.
Too hot of temps will usually end in the callous with no root strike.
So that may have been the issue with that.
86 is usually not too bad, but who knows.
Coulda been the ice too, hard to tell.
Use the UC roots as directed.
Oh, dunno how your putting things in the collar??
I spread open the collars real wide and slide them in the side.
It is way too easy to kink the stem going in from the top down.
You may be doing that already.
As long as the stem is not being damaged you should be fine.
BTW
I use the firm type of collars too.
Good luck
shag
Thanks, you seem like you know the ins and outs of aero cloning. I gather it takes times, which I lack.
OK so as you were saying you just use the pump to warm. I’d like to use it that way by just keeping it on 24/7, what I don’t know and am not clear about is the constant spraying… Does this factor in stems turning mushy/brown or it has nothing to do w it ? Back to the rot issue ? This will tell me trying to cool or warm the water is irrelevant to continuous spraying
Next, by running the pump constantly rises temp, so where is the window (callous formation) from the root strike and dropping the temp down ? What I mean is, at what point are callouses being affected OR adjusting isn’t done until the actual strike happens, so water temp ranges cooler or warmer are regardless of strike happening ? It’s back to hidden residue. Which now leads to another Q, I try to run my fingers along the water line edges to see if I can feel anything slippery like slime. This to me can be confusing wet plastic, but what I want to know is basically should any slippery touch most likely be suspect of source ?
Well I was asking if you think the aggressive amount would help correct faster.
Yes, I’m opening from the side. Never tip down, but I don’t think the holes are gripping the stems well. Neither do I think they fit. I thought they might mold to the sites after sitting there but it still takes a lot of pulling and jiggling to release the collar. Regardless of firm or soft, the wrong collar could be the issue, yes ? I looked at TK collars, and just a sheet was half the price of PC and I thought I’m going to have to buy them again, so maybe it’s better in the long run.
For now I’ll stop using the ice and go back to continuous spray, letting the pump do the heating instead until I get the strike 
24-7 spraying will not cause rot unless you are already contaminated
The spray is heated enough by the pump, heat is important, cool not so much, just not too hot either.
you are looking for a slime build-up like if you forget to brush your teeth.
Not slippery plastic.
No, you may burn em, so be careful.
I would not think so, but do what you feel is best.
People have used plain ol styrofoam.
Sounds like a solid plan.
Keep it clean as you possibly can.
Good luck brother.
@shag Well, after running from about 71 to 76.8 continuously for 6 hrs, I’ve found 3 mushy stems and ends. The whole stem under the collar is soggy soft. It’s like running w no timer made things worse or it’s speeding up the rot. I guess I should abandon ship again than spin my wheels. It’s 2 weeks to the day. Do I double my bleach solution to clean, and as you said run it longer for 2 maybe even 3 days. I guess I should scrub every inch and crevice than relying on a wash cycle to sterilize ? Any other suggestions, short of being inside the pump and having to get a new one ?
I guess it could have.
Any mush on the stem and it is time to toss it.
Double or triple it.
Make it strong as you feel comfortable.
I am not sure what to recommend to you but you can use a type of biocide to clean things to.
Just make sure to rinse very well.
Add some bleach to the cloner just before you add clones.
Clean cloner, and the water will have some disinfecting power to help fight off microbes.
Just soak the pump in the strong solution for a day or 2, then run it for a day or 2.
Then run it with the other biocide if you get one.
Something like for cleaning up after animals.
You may have to ask around, for something that will kill fungus and bacteria.
The bleach should do it, or hypochlorous acid ect.
I am trying not to make things to hard for ya.
As I said bleach should be enough but if you want to go the extra mile it can not hurt.
Dont forget to disinfect the lid outside as well as in.
Make sure absolutely nothing but water gets inside the cloner.
No dirt, no dust no nothing…
Clean the plug wire for the pump too.
If there is a cover on the back of the pump take it off, break it if you have to.
But make sure that will not ruin the pump, all mine are fine, but you never know??
I do see what you are saying about the mush mainly at the collar.
Kinda weird, just like you said.
Be careful not to kink the stem.
Probably not it, but I had to say it. 
@shag Is this biocide ? You said cleaning up after animal mess
Update : I ordered this…thoughts ?
24 hrs wash cycle 2 cups of bleach at 2 gall. I went only a 1/2 a cup last time. It was so strong I had to remove it from the room I’m in. I’m hoping this is like a shock treatment. Inserted my original collars so there’s a better seal, also flipping them so both sides get sprayed.
Next, I’ve stopped cycle, unscrewed manifold (back plate off last cycle) removed front cover too, put cover, manifold and pump to soak for at least 24 more hrs.
Put all back together and continue to run wash cycle
Rinsed w 135 degree water, then boiled a gall and put that in to cycle and 5 ml of UC Roots. My temp gauge hit 212 for 1 min, so I’m hoping that was like a flash pasteurization for extra measure.
Will throw out nozzles after all cleaning and add new ones. Those haven’t been changed since I got it last year…
Will wash and scrub original collars, lid, (both sides) holes and res w the biocide, then run it through a cycle.
As you said rinse well, so I’ll boil it again then run it for another 24 hr period and dump
Then I’ll start a pre hypochlorous treatment, fill w purified water, take cuts and sanitize them for a 24 hr cycle, then I’m going to take them out, cut under water, scrape surface end and dip in Hormex #8, wait about 30 mins to a hr for powder to absorb into the tissue before turning it back on. No timer or heat mat. Use dome for a few days, then keep it off if no wilt. I’m also going to use a clip fan to blow along the surface to help keep it drier above the collars. Do you think I can get away w using those collars temporarily until my PC collars arrive ?
I noticed you said keep it clean of dust and dirt, so does this include cat hair ? If so, I’m going to need to minimize my checking under lid and pulling out collars. This will hinder my ability to see ends clearly, but if it’s more important to keep hair out to stay clean then I have to hope everything is pretty much optimal most of the time. Just a low quick peek or to change it, any longer and hair strands will be in the water or on stems. I don’t know how important this is, but if it is, then I’ll have to hope every measure taken before the clock starts is perfection.
Anything else to add ? I really appreciate your guidance through this rout 
Hopefully I can return my appreciation w some TC x Xmas x NL 2 seeds 
Yes, I use the same collars for over 5 years now.
BTW
The rooting Powder is for dirt.
I feel you need to switch to liquid, dunno if powder will work in a cloner.
Here is hormex liquid.
yes anything microbes can catch a ride on.
When I wanna check things I just pull a collar out not open the lid.
BTW
I am not sure what is in the first bottle, ingredients wise.
But the Oxine is a good one, kinda like strong bleach.
Bleach should be enough, but I am like you and wish to go the extra mile.
I will look to see the name on the product I use.
No real need to throw out the nozzles, just soak em real long.
Although they can get the funk in there and it is hard to get out.
So not a bad move.
Just so you know I put the collars right in the water solution, but I have extra lids.
Make sure to squeeze the collars to allow bleach to get deep inside like a sponge.
Be sure to squeeze em in the rinse water too, rinse well.
I am happy to help.
I have struggled with the funk in the past, so I feel for ya!
A quick dip should do it on the cuts, maybe not necessary if you have bleach ect in the clone spray water.
Yup I already have the concentrate. The reason for powder is the woodiness of stems from air circulation, which Hormex is designed for in multiple strengths. Also I think powder might adhere and absorb better before stems are sprayed. Hormex does say their power can be used in hydro.
Great to hear the Oxine is the right choice. Yes I want to make sure it’s throughly eradicated, so going that extra step just in case the regular bleach didn’t get it. I think this covers all bases, I hope
Perhaps several sheets of Saran Wrap over the holes could work just as well 
Ahhh I didn’t think of the squeezing part. Good to know. Although Permaclone collars will make that part of maintenance easier going forward…15 min micro soak done.
Yes, I just rinsed out for 2 days and now drying
I read the Oxine can treat water too. 1 oz at 30 gall so I got .75 for 2 gall…maybe that might be the extra measure to insure it stays out.
I can’t believe how much time I’ve been dead in the water for. Over 2 months. This is a struggle no doubt. You think you got it beat, only to keep appearing so stealthy like to keep setting back
And you’re right, it’s hard for any cuts to survive once it’s started. I do have 6 left of the 17 that seem perky in their jello cups of soil mix so I’m hoping the time isn’t completely wasted
Thanks again and hopefully it’s useful for anyone else stuck w the gunk
Roots are grown in the dark such as dirt what are you doing with those plants
First, welcome to OG. You need to make your intro post here Introduce Yourself @OG (Part 2)
This thread pertains to aero cloning and biofilm/pythium that eventually happens for a first timer cloning in this particular method. I’m not new to growing (look below my handle bro that badge says “old school”) but I am new to treatments and sanitizing cloners.
Where do I begin…
Please note the following post is only in reference to cuttings/clones pre callous rooting. It is NOT intended for plants with established roots.
First I believe clarification is in order. While I appreciate the help in diagnosing, it is incorrect. Distinctions need to be drawn regarding ‘rot’ symptoms. It’s NOT pythium! It can LEAD to pythium. After reading it’s actually more pernicious and pervasive, but I wouldn’t have known anything if @George didn’t say to treat them in a cup of H2O2 and I made a make shift bubbler.
The problem being under light and not sealed well, after 3-4 days an opaque slime developed. I remembered when I removed the cuts half the small res exposed to light and then with the new information I’ve found WHY that happened even with H2O2 added… it is Cyanobacteria aka ‘blue algae’ that’s present in our tap water. Growers are reporting resistant Cyanobacteria cases to chlorine treatments, Physan 20 and other Oxidizers agents.
This is WHY H2O2, bleach cleaning/treatments, hypochlorous acid aren’t working as they should to sterilize the water/interior environment. The Cyanobacteria are building resistances. We’re in the middle of an organism evolution at the very nexus of growing - water!
Thankfully out of sheer gut intuition my choice of getting Oxine was the best choice as it is designed for this increasing dilemma many will face. I also have not seen any aggregated threads on STEAM cleaning.
After I noticed brown areas and mushing I checked which didn’t break apart scratching to be firm and planted 5 from that batch just barely going. A Bissel steamshot just arrived to do some tough bathroom/floor cleaning and I immediately thought what about steaming the whole thing, even better a drop of Oxine added to tank.
I tried using my Permaklone collars during but I knew I had to clean those before trying again. Collars, bubble curtain, pump mounting plate, pump front cover, manifold w nozzles into a bowl. According to Permaklone 15 mins microwave boiling water. The manifold and the bubble curtain we’re unaffected. The cover, plate and a few nozzles were, and warped and melted. My blunder, but you can see I’m not fucking around and trying to intensely sterilize everything. Perhaps less time would allow this without melting ?
As a result I ordered a new pump. Without the front pump cover, the spray is weak. I had to get creative, tear out 2 gall bucket aero clone pump/manifold cord I started w out of drilled hole, steam clean rigorously the whole thing and added it in. However the bubble curtain creates mist that reaches the top.
@shag I know you have said timers are irrelevant to pathogens, but I’ve seen faster issues arise trying to go continuous. Personally I think too long of spraying is contributing to soggy ends, allowing bacteria to take hold quickly. After 2 days of doing 1 min spritz spray every 20 mins the ends are firm. I had to recut one suspicious cut after adjusting from 36 hrs of spraying. I also noticed too dramatic of increase in temp as it stayed on. I think going for finer mist with quick sprays negates factors that Cyanobacteria thrive in. Perhaps this is not a factor in Pythium development
And now another adjustment for Cyanobacteria issues has to be introduced. Low level direct top down lighting used to fine, NOW it has to be indirect and fainter. I’ve taken my 3 tubes of LED and turned to the sides and one in the middle to refract. The LED even at its lowest setting is too much for direct over the top.
I think the lighting position/distance is another factor that promotes Cyanobacteria to grow, hence why I’ve said at the beginning the slimed cuts WITH H2O2 treatment. IF it was true Pythium I shouldn’t be here because the colder zone wouldn’t even allow it to start. Cyanobacteria grow in hot or cold temperatures regardless.
Another indicator is Ph, which high alkaline is for Cyanobacteria and low acidic is for Pythium/Fusarium. This is why my constant diligent to cool failed, as my Ph would stay high constantly. Also I should note seeing weird black dots in my case that’s never been consistent with Pythium.
We almost can’t associate ‘brown/tan/discoloration’ to a diagnoses of Pythium because it could be a Cyanobacteria case instead. After 4 days (sat night) I took a cut of B Corn, which has suffered the worst from Cyanobacteria to root. My cup has plain water and nothing else. I made a foil top but this time made a cavity, made a large enough hole and let a collar rest over top. This cup is off to the side AWAY from the LED beams. I check every day after 24 hrs to see if Cyanobacteria have formed. The stem is crisp and firm. Nothing comes off the stem when rubbed slightly with nail. This is an experiment to see how long it takes Cyanobacteria to start their life cycle, but as the days pass and LIGHT being kept at a further distance is proving this is a major contributing factor to HOW they bore themselves from water.
This comes to mind how light leaky home made cloners will inevitably fail. How we illuminate our cuts is on the horizon to change. We also have to reverse from treating to preventing. The chemical treatments aren’t in our favor. The only way is altering the source, because we can’t eliminate what is causing Cyanobacteria. It breaks down to simple science…what is it that algae does, photosynthesis …exactly the point. What is the point of any organism, to reproduce and survive… It is all about any kind of crack, hole and space where light can get to in the res and since most clone 24/7 any breach is Cyanobacteria’s moment of opportunity. Going back it took less than 72 hrs for slime. It’s very rapid and accelerated than Pythium takes.
The development of Oxine is a breakthrough but after everything I’ve read it’s not to be relied on. It’s really the same principle is with antibiotics to treat a cold or flu, which only treats SYMPTOMS and makes the bacteria/virus more resistant as a result. Cloners will have to be super light tight, not even the slightest pin hole of light getting in. I’ve said lowest lighting setting still caused it, but readjusted off to the side/refracting and fainter appears to be working and this correlates with what I’m seeing from the cut that’s away from light. I’m going to take pics and link threads for reference. Here at OG we have to make discernible differences. It would be wrong to generalize 2 different organisms as one when the advised treatments are actually creating a resistance and oblivious to the actual source.
Cyanobacteria are present in the water, but it must have LIGHT to activate. Without, algae can’t function in its basic life cycle. I don’t see it as algae though. I see it bacterial and we as growers need to refer to slime as Cyanobacteria, because we’re spinning our wheels wasting time and money continuing to associate slime to Pythium and furthermore trying to chemically treat as Pythium is counterproductive to prevention at the source, which hasn’t been water at all, LIGHT is the fucking welcome mat for Cyanobacteria to begin life from being dormant in water. This is the crux, but I digress my ranting so we may begin to distinguish and correctly identify source than increases resistance so that nothing works and the lone option is fainter/distant light to stop this organism from becoming immune to all chemicals. All I can say is if that happens WE ARE FUCKED! All hydro growing will become impossible to manage. Chemicals need to be reserved for last cases and not the first and the attention is about lighting/leaks/intensity
This is a long one, but extremely extensive and detailed
This another where it’s mentioned. Brief insight
This is about Oxine and employee from Bio-cide shares some nuggets of info
Now for pics
Note the cup, light distance and placement of rod
Here is the test cut as I explained
Here is the stem and cut end
Next
Note my lighting and how it’s positioned. You can see my cloner is under a shelf away from the light at distance and my rods are angled away too
Next let’s look at the lid
Here is another reason why to use indirect light. See the tiny hole at the top of the split…I’m telling ya. Light has to be re-thought with Cyanobacteria and the resistance to oxidizer
All my ends, are still solid and no plant matter rubs off. I’m using about 5 drops of Oxine every other day. For extra measure I’ll change my water, every 4 days, steam clean res/pump manifolds. I’ve decided to addd new bubble curtain. Really after 1 year things like should be replaced than chance it. IF this batch roots, my hypothesis will be accurate about light needing to be even less for Cyanobacteria cases. Obviously the easiest way to know if your water is plagued with Cyanobacteria is take a cut and let it sit in an open cup of water under your clone lights, and shortly the snot/goo will be hanging and sucking the life out of the cut. You will know you have to make the adjustments in how you light your cuts going forward. I hope this helps those who can’t figure why your cuts keep failing
Always willing to learn something new, thanks for sharing … 
