I think I may know someone that can probably speak on this topic.
Dunno if he is interested.
@TomHill What say you?
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Dutch Haze or a line being “Dutched” = watered down. crossed with afghan’s to shorten the flowering time and thereby losing all the goodness that makes Haze, Haze. Haze itself is a conglomeration of multiple equatorial type plants producing a soaring, cerebral type high with almost no body effect.
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I’m no expert, but isn’t @TomHill’s from Positronics stock? Which was from Sam too?
Wasn’t @ToddMcC working there at that time also?
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Sure man. When folk speak of Dutch haze they are quoting rob Clarke in an article the origin of the species. This is the more leather Colombian teak side of the family brought to light by Nevil to 99% of the world. But there is another Skywalker a superior Thai heavy bitch that everybody who was there knows about. These lines are like night and day, almost nothing alike. But both really good and both “haze” and both release by Sam I believe. I know of no other hazes outside of false marketing scams.
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Yes my haze is from Positronics but from circa '94 from previous Sam stock 
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If you read Joe Pietri’s book, he claims haze was imported by smugglers from around the world going back to the 60’s or 70’s and anyone else (including Sam, who he claims is DEA, which IMO is a very questionable claim) stole it. It likely came from somewhere in Asia or “the East”. That sounds a lot more like a Thai influenced plant rather than a 4-way Columbian hybrid.
I’m starting to question everything. 
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Todd didn’t get Sam’s haze until this past decade, if I am correct, before he started Authentic Genetics. He told the story on podcasts previously. I don’t think he had anything to do with the old seed banks.
He has said he was just an enthusiast/activist back in the 90’s, and went to the coffee shops like everyone else.
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Unless I’m missing something out of the original genepool , we got Nev’s work ( all hybrids ) & for " puros" the Colombian side worked by Oldtimer , Sam / Todd’s stuff , & Thai side worked by @TomHill . I’m sure there’s probably some others . All that said I’m under the impression that unless one has enough time , space to pheno hunt the avg tent grower would be better off with a hybrid line thats been worked .
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Boneyard Seeds Haze-4-Days.
So what’s the deal with Oldtimer’s Haze that Ace sells? Do you know anything on that? And for the Thai Haze, would there be any connection to Sam’s “Thunk”? Its supposed to be Thai Haze x Skunk.
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Sams first descriptions of haze described it as a pure sativa mix that would not finish till late December , ive heard from several people that true haze will not finish till dec/Jan. This would be more in the 14-18week range and that sounds accurate compared to landrace sativas I’ve personally grown. I’m just about positive some form of indica was bred into it shortly after its arrival in the Dutch scene, you can see the flower times reduced as time goes by…
A lot of the history surrounding Sam and how he and those genetics got where they did was always a topic of debate. A lot of people fled the USA back then but Sam came with a elaborate and romantic story about the genetics he was holding and quickly became a household name.
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Given what I heard you say in the potcast. Would I be correct in thinking that even your Haze will only produce a quality plant 5% of the time? So pop 20 seeds. Get 1 Haze example and 19 Hay examples.
Did I get that right?
I’m growing 2 of Todd’s OriginalHaze x OriginalNevillesHaze right now. They are at week 10 of flower.
One is definitely showing some of its NL5 heritage (from the ONH side). A little smaller, less skinny leaves, and it’s probably gonna be done in maybe 2-3 weeks.
The other is much more skinny/lanky sativa and is probably gonna go to 16 weeks easy, because it still looks like it’s barely getting started
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I’ve grown a bunch of AG Haze, and there’s definitely some very long flower-ers in there… Here’s one I grew this year: it didn’t even come close to finishing… Was kept warm enough, but was in a very low light area and just couldn’t make it I guess… I normally have a better set up to help in finishing these types of plants, but I’m in a transitional phase right now and can’t give them the deep and constant care they need. Anyway, pics were taken December 1st. As can be seen, other than the seeded buds, everything else is very underdeveloped. I could see it going well into January if it was better kept. (They don’t all grow like this, but there’s a fair amount to be found with a decent run.)
I had a couple that made it further along at a faster rate, but I don’t have any pics readily available, and I’m not taking any budshots until I smoke em, and right now I have no desire to light-up, so…
But here’s a more purple budded one that was out on it’s own in the cold woods: chopped at around mid November. Plenty of white pistils still. Way too premature for a head ripper, but still gets me high enough.
I really look forward to trying Tom’s direct, but I have to say, AG’s absolutely has some very strong expressions too- especially when they are properly grown to full maturity. Some are weaker, like all Haze, but some can be almost uncomfortably strong.
I’ve said it before, but every Haze offering out there will have a certain uncertainty to it. Even the original story is somewhat suspect. The only things we know for sure, is that Sam brought it over and dispersed it, and that humans lie about everything. People really have no choice but to be open when it comes to Haze, because it is a strain of mystery and folklore.
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Yeah man, no joke… 10 weeks? Most Indica dom hybrids can’t even finish that fast… i wonder what the hell they mixed in there…
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So from what I can gather, haze was created by Sam the Skunkman from “commonly” available California genetics? This “haze” was breed to be like a sativa with high amounts (ratios) specifically of the cannabinoid, THC…he then brought it to Europe and the journey began.
That seem about right?
I don’t want to put my foot in my mouth, but this seems like the right place for it 
. I want to go so far as to say that Tom Hill Haze is distinct from Sam’s haze in that although both are from Sam, haze is just a label. But again…foot in mouth, lol.
It was pretty weak I was in Spain those guys are brothers and it came out it don’t go back to Sam so for me it is not even haze. The Thai haze in thunk is a purple Thai whatever that is lol. It is not the same as the golden Buddha mango heads chocolate Thai that is 50% of the line I grow that has been swept under the carpet, but for my money it is best 
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So is UK cheese from sams haze he brought to Europe?