Yeah, I agree, I cull the obviously sub par males, but on the flip side, reducing your breeding population to just one individual can also be hazardous for the long term goals. I’m not advocating for open pollination, just broad selection and using the combined results as your guide.
11 Likes
For sure, definitely depends on the goals and where you’re at. Just saying I’m not gonna use a male that looks and smells just like a female I tossed 
4 Likes
Yeah agreed. In crop plant breeding using the bulk method, there is no attempt to select for a number of generations. The population is just allowed to combine, then at about f5 or so, individual plants of desired traits are selected out as lines, which are then bulked. This process is repeated until the best variety is selected from the separate lines according to field trials etc. The idea is that you are selecting populations instead of individuals and using the genetic variability to your advantage.
Commercial flower breeders often use a ‘modified’ bulk method, where there is a lot more selection done through the generations, presumably because they are seeking to direct their breeding efforts towards different goals I.e. a beautiful flower is a lot more subjective than how many tonnes of grain per hectare etc.
11 Likes
It would definitely be cool. After growing for all these decades though, there are times I think that some of the traits you want are linked to some of the traits you don’t and aren’t as easy to separate as we’d like. I don’t have adequate science to back the notion up, but anecdotally speaking, well behaved plants rarely make history.
7 Likes
Anything other than “simple genetics and breeding theory” is way beyond me but I dont have a problem with seeded buds UNLESS I am paying for the extra weight. I have always believed that seeded buds had more resin. But that is only my opinion. 
3 Likes
the guy is know to sell seeds that are hermie prone…so take all of this with a grain of salt ^^
5 Likes
I knew that every strain can actually herm and that we can just select stable plants, to minimize that risk, of having a girl that’s seeded, if we just want the bud.
But is Shanti really known for selling seeds that are hermie prone? Can u maybe tell me more about that? I thought of giving the White Rhino (medicine man) a try.
And i bought CBD GIRL SCOUT COOKIES from the CBD-Crew where shanti is involved or the head of the group? I dont know for sure.
And i thought about buying his CBD MediHaze
So i would love to hear more about that @coxnox
Thank you!
1 Like
dont know if his forum is still alive but if, just go and read…plenty of hersm problems, and allways the same answer from the herm master 
4 Likes
Nevil reversed the Haze C male and made what he called Haze C Square in the 80s HzC x HzC those seed produced both female and male offspring. So if we’re going by this theory, the Haze C male is, then what a throwaway ?
Smoke testing males by removing the leaf around the male flowers, drying them and then smoking them has been a method I have used on hybrids for a very long time, sure it tastes like shit, but it works.
You can also reverse males to ID other things.
9 Likes
“Selective Breeding” is the term its most of my viewpoint. Removal of undesirable traits over a population. Karma said in a podcast his male selection goes about by grouping males that match up structurally and profiled to like females and his seed lines appear very consistent comparative to the variation you’d see in shantis stock. This is just an observation.
6 Likes
The less worked a line is, the more work you have to put in
I find that anything before 2000 needs more work for indoor production
Even certain lines past 2000, have inherent intersex tendencies, as a commenter posted above, “we wouldn’t have fire without hermzzzz”
Gary Payton, unstable
Chems, unstable
Og kushes, unstable to a degree
Runtz, unstable
Gsc bagseed, unstable
Sour d ibl and associated releases, unstable
The answer is, to know what you are purchasing or growing and grow accordingly
Older lines are valuable
But half of these, were worked by others already
The other half, will need pheno hunting beyond the modern scale of tiny 10 plant pheno hunts
This all is a general description, but that’s the truth I find
10 Likes
As an example
My old buddy, he and his friend wanted to find the quality cherry pheno of serious seeds AK-47
I know y’all know about the cherry AK
But not everybody has this back in the day, why?
Because it’s not a common pheno
He and buddy, split 40 packs, that’s 400 seeds, of serious seeds ak47
They found 2 cherry phenos
One was a runt
So end number? 1 out of 400
People don’t want to hear this, but, if you buy older lines or seeds, this can be your work
11 Likes
I get the impression there must be more details too it. If you spray with ethylene you are doing what many people in curcubits do and encouraging female plants. I don’t see how any males are going to stay stable even the most true males. A stress test however achieves this. Perhaps a certain ppm of gaseous ethylene would induce just the right amount of stress and not make all males turn. EIther way it is interesting and thanks for posting!. wish i knew more about his method.
1 Like
Ethylyne is a natural byproduct of ripening fruits, vegetables, etc. It’s the reason people say you can put a ripe banana in a bag with green ones to ripen them faster.
In theory, you could put a ripe banana (apple, orange, etc etc etc) in the tent and it would absorb some ambient ethylene in the air.
I’m pretty sure it’s also commonly used in amendments and teas intended to sweeten, ripen, enhance terp production, etc for the end of flowering.
This has been said, but anything is possible.
Folks have said they possess a female you can not reverse.
If that is true and I do not know if it is, the same rule should pertain to the male.
And if they all will eventually reverse, wouldn’t that mean they are all prone to intersex traits to one degree or another?
1 Like
Few threads on male reversal if any are interested.
Personally, I wouldn’t smoke test a reversed male.
Nevils Post.
Yep, done that. I selfed the HazeC male. Theoretically their should be 25% YY. I was looking for them.
I got about 33% females and 66% males, no intersex. I progeny tested maybe 20 males, All produced normal male to female ratio’s and no intersex. The seeds had normal viability, so I guessed that YY would block seed growing in the first place.
None of the HzC male selfed, came close to being as good as HzC for breeding.
N.
6 Likes
From what I understand this wouldn’t work. Correct me if I’m wrong. Intersex traits are not directly tied to sex chromosomes. We don’t know why they happen. It could be a survival mutation etc. just look at grass (actual grass) reproductive traits and mutations. Several species possess genetic processes to prevent interbreeding because it damage the gene pool.
I also agree in a sense about male selection to a degree. A simple comparison would be to sperm. Every sperm is different coming for a man. The same is true with cannabis and pollen. I’ve been trying to read about mutations in a breeder males. With humans the activities in a man’s life effect traits they pass on like if you are reading a lot and working out. Smoking is a negative effect. Stress would likely have a similar effect on cannabis.
2 Likes
@hempy . That is very interesting. I have a strain that always gives me at least one male that produces a few small female flowers. These males are completely covered with resin. Last year one male selfed himself and produced a few seeds. I will need to investigate this strain further.
4 Likes
Shanti said it like that:
U just took ur male, u think its a really good one, right?
Then, u spray just this male down (NO FEMALES INVOLVED OR OTHER PLANTS).
If the male will produce seeds in his reversed female flowers, its not a “true” male.
Thats what he said.
NOT the “REVERSE” is the test, the test is if this male will grow out seeds in him self.
1 Like
I grew 2 AK-47’s from Serious.
I found the Cherry Pheno in the first plant xD
2 Likes