Slow dry or wet cure?

Being the inquisitive type I did some searching. Not sure that chlorophyll breaks down into sugar. I did find some papers to direct me in the right direction (???) but will need more time to get my head around it.

Chlorophyll breakdown in higher plants[

" Chlorophyll breakdown is an important catabolic process of leaf senescence and fruit ripening. Structure elucidation of colorless linear tetrapyrroles as (final) breakdown products of chlorophyll was crucial for the recent delineation of a chlorophyll breakdown pathway which is highly conserved in land plants. Pheophorbide a oxygenase is the key enzyme responsible for opening of the chlorin macrocycle of pheophorbide a characteristic to all further breakdown products. Degradation of chlorophyll was rationalized by the need of a senescing cell to detoxify the potentially phototoxic pigment, yet recent investigations in leaves and fruits indicate that chlorophyll catabolites could have physiological roles. This review updates structural information of chlorophyll catabolites and the biochemical reactions involved in their formation, and discusses the significance of chlorophyll breakdown. This article is part of a Special Issue entitled: Regulation of Electron Transport in Chloroplasts.

Research Highlights

ā–ŗ Chlorophyll is broken down in a multi-step pathway called PAO pathway. ā–ŗ The PAO pathway operates during leaf senescence and fruit ripening. ā–ŗ The end products of the pathway are fluorescent and nonfluorescent catabolites. ā–ŗ The pathway aims to detoxify chlorophyll, but may also have physiological roles."

Another one.

Chlorophyll breakdown and chlorophyll catabolites in leaves and fruit

Chlorophyll metabolism probably is the most visible manifestation of life. Total annual turnover of chlorophyll has been estimated to involve more than 1000 million tons. Surprisingly, chlorophyll catabolism has remained an enigma until less than twenty years ago, when a colorless chlorophyll catabolite from senescent plant leaves was identified and its structure was elucidated. In the meantime, chlorophyll breakdown products have been identified in a variety of plant leaves and their structural features have been elucidated. Most recently, chlorophyll breakdown products have also been identified in some ripening fruit. Chlorophyll breakdown in vascular plants only fleetingly involves enzyme-bound colored intermediates. The stage of fluorescent catabolites is also passed rapidly, as these isomerize further to colorless nonfluorescent tetrapyrrolic catabolites. The latter accumulate in the vacuoles of de-greened leaves and are considered the final products of controlled chlorophyll breakdown. The same tetrapyrroles are also found in ripening fruit and are effective antioxidants. Chlorophyll breakdown leads to tetrapyrroles that appear to have physiologically beneficial chemical properties, and it may thus not merely be a detoxification process.

Research Progress in the Interconversion, Turnover and Degradation of Chlorophyll

Chlorophylls (Chls, Chl a and Chl b) are tetrapyrrole molecules essential for photosynthetic light harvesting and energy transduction in plants. Once formed, Chls are noncovalently bound to photosynthetic proteins on the thylakoid membrane. In contrast, they are dismantled from photosystems in response to environmental changes or developmental processes; thus, they undergo interconversion, turnover, and degradation. In the last twenty years, fruitful research progress has been achieved on these Chl metabolic processes. The discovery of new metabolic pathways has been accompanied by the identification of enzymes associated with biochemical steps. This article reviews recent progress in the analysis of the Chl cycle, turnover and degradation pathways and the involved enzymes. In addition, open questions regarding these pathways that require further investigation are also suggested.

Oh heck one more. This looks promising.

Comparative Proteomic Analysis by iTRAQ Reveals that Plastid Pigment Metabolism Contributes to Leaf Color Changes in Tobacco

Tobacco (Nicotiana tabacum), is a worldā€™s major non-food agricultural crop widely cultivated for its economic value. Among several color change associated biological processes, plastid pigment metabolism is of trivial importance in postharvest plant organs during curing and storage. However, the molecular mechanisms involved in carotenoid and chlorophyll metabolism, as well as color change in tobacco leaves during curing, need further elaboration. Here, proteomic analysis at different curing stages (0 h, 48 h, 72 h) was performed in tobacco cv. Biā€™na1 with an aim to investigate the molecular mechanisms of pigment metabolism in tobacco leaves as revealed by the iTRAQ proteomic approach. Our results displayed significant differences in leaf color parameters and ultrastructural fingerprints that indicate an acceleration of chloroplast disintegration and promotion of pigment degradation in tobacco leaves due to curing. In total, 5931 proteins were identified, of which 923 (450 up-regulated, 452 down-regulated, and 21 common) differentially expressed proteins (DEPs) were obtained from tobacco leaves. To elucidate the molecular mechanisms of pigment metabolism and color change, 19 DEPs involved in carotenoid metabolism and 12 DEPs related to chlorophyll metabolism were screened. The results exhibited the complex regulation of DEPs in carotenoid metabolism, a negative regulation in chlorophyll biosynthesis, and a positive regulation in chlorophyll breakdown, which delayed the degradation of xanthophylls and accelerated the breakdown of chlorophylls, promoting the formation of yellow color during curing. Particularly, the up-regulation of the chlorophyllase-1-like isoform X2 was the key protein regulatory mechanism responsible for chlorophyll metabolism and color change. The expression pattern of 8 genes was consistent with the iTRAQ data. These results not only provide new insights into pigment metabolism and color change underlying the postharvest physiological regulatory networks in plants, but also a broader perspective, which prompts us to pay attention to further screen key proteins in tobacco leaves during curing.

Just realized, I thought this was the other thread where we were collecting papers. Shoot, now I have to find which one it was.

9 Likes

@bunny

As the cannabis plant dries it converts chlorophyll into glucoseā€¦a form of sugar.

There is a ton of research of there supporting thisā€¦when I get home from work Iā€™ll get some info for ya!

EDIT: itā€™s a process that involves aerobic bacteriaā€¦Iā€™ll get more in this later :slight_smile:

Brian(Alaskagrown)

8 Likes

Sorry @Alaskagrown you are AWESOME but that is not correct. The breakdown terminates in colorless tetrapyrrolic catabolites (see paper above) and is enzyme mediated. This happens inside the plant cells, a sterile environment.

This is why we slow dry, to keep the plant material turgid, and thus the cells alive, for as long as possible so that this reaction (and other metabolic/catabolic processes) can occur.

But I would LOVE to see more info re:aerobic (or anaerobic) bacteria and curing.

All the best E-buddy,
Dirtron

6 Likes

There was some rather scary Bro science getting passed around in 1970 ā€¦ Basically fresh harvested weed placed in a glass jar (I think we used a dill pickle jarā€¦ :rofl:) and buried underground for 2~3 weeks until covered in black mold.

We were stupid, but not stupid enough to smoke that mess. :laughing: :vulcan_salute:
That was filed under ā€œfailā€ā€¦

Cheers
G

5 Likes

Iā€™ve been listening to and reading the work of Dr Allison Justice lately and itā€™s pretty interesting stuff:

http://magazine.cannabisbusinesstimes.com/article/june-2019/white-ash-vs-black-ash.aspx

5 Likes

I am mistaken about chlorophyll converting into sugars/glucoseā€¦that was starches into sugarsā€¦my bad!

The aerobic bacteria consumes both chlorophyll and sugars/glucose. From what I understand anaerobic bacteria is generally considered bad and can be unsafeā€¦aerobic bacteria is what the roots thrive off ofā€¦wish I could find the article I was reading about aerobic bacteria in cannabis plants and the effect in the drying/curing processā€¦Iā€™ll find it and post.

Read through some of thatā€¦one talked about pigment change in Tobacco leavesā€¦another about changes in some fruiting plants. I wish there were Cannabis specific scientific studies as I think there are some specific processes happeningā€¦maybe someone much smarter than I will write one.

What do you mean by ā€œturgidā€ā€¦the definition of being in a state of distension, swollen, tumidā€¦not sure how that released to plant cells and the degradation process that happens?

I try to learn something new every dayā€¦Iā€™m a good listener! Lol. :ear:

Some of them articles by the way are not what one would consider ā€œlight readingā€ā€¦had to look some of that shit up!! :thinking: :face_with_raised_eyebrow:

Hereā€™s a couple good articles about drying/curing cannabis though the first two not very scientificā€¦

https://www.healtheuropa.eu/an-overview-of-the-cannabis-drying-and-curing-process/99554/

https://darkheartnursery.com/from-the-garden/drying-and-curing-cannabis/

Brian(Alaskagrown)

9 Likes

@Alaskagrown

Turgid = full of fluid.

As in: It has been a week and my cuttings are still turgid, I have high hopes they will root successfully.

Thankfully as legalization sweeps :earth_americas: more cannabis specific research will be done.

In some ways tobacco curing is a stand in since it is well researched.

4 Likes

ā€œRead through some of thatā€¦one talked about pigment change in Tobacco leavesā€¦another about changes in some fruiting plants. I wish there were Cannabis specific scientific studies as I think there are some specific processes happeningā€¦maybe someone much smarter than I will write one.ā€

No, some are not light reading. I skim over parts that get too deep, look for bits that relate to us. I Google also when reading these type of papers. I learned a little of the nervous system looking into the pain condition I have (doctors told me little) and I looked up papers and googled terms I found then looked up papers with these words. Eventually the stuff starts to make some sense.

Some of it translated to plant life. At the cellular level some of the structure is the same, still have a way to go to get it all. Well, as much that is out there. And it takes some time, the papers I found here cost a few days of looking. Might be like the Neurology thing, I can find the right answer to what I was looking for originally, just google the right bunch of words. Just took a while to figure out what words I needed. Hope this plant science will be the same.

7 Likes

@Alaskagrown

You are right that anaerobic bacteria can be pathogenic, and are more likely to be harmful than aerobic bacteria. However, it is far from absolute. One of the most important bacteria, both for human and plant health, Lactobacillus (EM-1/LABS/yogurt) is an anaerobe (although one that can tolerate O2). And conversely there are pathogenic aerobic bacteria.

Please tag me if you do end up finding that paperā€¦ Gotta upgrade my grey matter, cuz one day it may matter!

6 Likes

What about drying in temperatures around 55-60 with humidity 65-70

2 Likes

Gotta love Del :v:t2::+1:t2::call_me_hand:t2:

3 Likes

Interesting question.
Personally I like the cooler temperatures. My initial worries are always mold related so I like to get the moisture level in the bud down in the 1st day or 2, then slow the process down. I go for 60% but 70% may be better.

There was an interesting post by TokerJayG yesterday on Asian curing which from the description, sounds anaerobic and possible involves fermentation.
Thai x Indian x African - #155 by CADMAN
check up a few posts above that to see his finished product.

Cheers
G

5 Likes

@Gpaw

My situation would include one day or two quick dry 71ā€™f 35%rh

Then move to a climate of 56-60ā€™f /60-70rh

Iā€™m gonna try it!! Weā€™ll kind of forced lol
thanks for including that quick dry steps to prevent mold being that was my biggest worry

Thank you kindly !

3 Likes

@Dirtron
I agree with ya about the LABSā€¦Iā€™ve got a bunch brewing as we speakā€¦feed that soil to feed the plants!

2 Likes

Just for giggles, I found a pill container that I put a bud in (donā€™t remember, a few weeks back I guess) and found it.It had condensation all over the interior. I thought, this will not be good. Opened it a little and not so pretty smell came out enough for me to quickly close it again. Going the the trash but it was interesting that it did not have mold all over it. Come to think of it, I think I accidentally cut it off when I was cleaning up dead leaves and accidentally snipped it off. Only meant to put it in there temporarily and bringing it up with a bunch of stuff. Forgot about it.

2 Likes

I agree with that one. I do sometimes dry a little fast. Slower the better to me. Iā€™m always late. A month later. Peace

4 Likes

It is typically considered best to dry a cannabis harvest in strictly controlled climate conditions: moderately cool drying rooms are preferred for better preservation of the highest possible levels of terpenes; however, at temperatures much below 15Ā°C the product will retain excessive amounts of chlorophyll.

Read this here, does anybody know of any corroborating data to back this up?

2 Likes

I think they dry faster in lower temps. The RH needs to be low. Just me. Good luck

2 Likes

I want my buds at 60% humidity. I set my drying chamber to 60% and just let it ride.

I donā€™t agree with air exchange but maybe thatā€™s just me. And too dry bad too wet bad is a bit simplistic but fine.

6 Likes

I like it dry. As much as possible. Thatā€™s the difference. Always been this way. I want it to burn fast. Not hot but fast. I do understand why people like it at different humidities. And it does make a difference I do agree. I donā€™t like super dry Indica. I had a friend years ago complaining about the bud wasnā€™t dry enough. I didnā€™t understand it first.

2 Likes