Thanks for the reply. Sounds like your speaking from the heart. (But the words “spreading misinformation” is nearly a criminal offense these days and I would be careful who you accuse of it.)
By the way you and these guys are acting it seems like no one has seen it. Sorry for assuming. I’ll check your thread out.
Have a good day and dont forget your lunch!
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@Foreigner - From where I sit, I find 20x more fem seeds than regulars. It seems the only regular seeds I find are landraces. IBLs are nearly nonexistent. Even more nonexistent is an IBL with information on the strain itself. There are a handful here and there, but they’re extremely difficult to find. I’ve only really been an avid seed collector for about 3 years, but I can say I’ve seen a lot more autos and a lot more fems as of late.
Not worried about males going away. What I am worried about is this new age of ‘bro science’ ruining practices which have been practiced for thousands of years. Good breeders stay hush hush about their breeding practices (like Blu-Tri), because they know that’s the ‘magic sauce’. New breeders enter the market not knowing anything. We must learn through trial and error. Some of us though would like a leg up on the competition so we do research. We want to know the ‘why’ of it; how things work. We don’t want to ‘waste’ years of our time learning when it takes so little time to become educated through others compared to learning through trial and error.
Don’t respond if you don’t want to. I am going to ask though… where is the proof? Regardless of your opinions about me, we should demonstrate the pure scientific facts to the public. Where is the scientific paper showing the effects of removing males from the population, over vast generations? That’s right it doesn’t exist. It hasn’t been tested before. Am I wrong? I would love to be shown a study that shows this and confirms your point of view.
I found this:
These
hermaphroditic inflorescences can be induced by exogenous
applications of different chemicals (Ram and Jaiswal, 1970, 1972;
Ram and Sett, 1981), and by environmental stresses (Rosenthal,
1991; Kaushal, 2012), suggesting that external triggers and
epigenetic factors may play a role. The hermaphrodite plants
are functionally monoecious due to their ability to undergo
self-pollination, but the impact of self-fertilization on progeny
sex ratios and on genetic variation in the subsequent progeny has
not been previously studied
By a dictionary’s definition:
mo·noe·cious - /məˈnēSHəs/ adjective BIOLOGY
- (of a plant or invertebrate animal) having both the male and female reproductive organs in the same individual; hermaphrodite.
Aren’t all feminized plants monoecious by definition? So this paper is saying there’s no testing of the impact of self-fertilization on the impact of genetic variation in the subsequent progeny.
In summary, all I’m going to say is I was unable to find proof that supports the claim that males are no longer necessary for cannabis. That’s all.
Sorry I found more:
https://sensiseeds.com/en/blog/the-difference-between-regular-and-feminized-cannabis-seeds-which-should-you-grow/
This is also why feminized seeds must always be referred to by that name – they aren’t truly female, and therefore cannot be sold as such. Watch out for seeds described as ‘100% female’, as this is nothing more than a marketing ploy!
This just blew the cap off the whole thing for me. Sensi seeds is a reputable breeder that’s been around a long time. They’re saying feminized seeds aren’t truly female?! I know that I know nothing. But this… how do I even go about researching this??
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I think one of the more memorable quotes we’ve had from him - other than the neon-lit subtext saying he’s only here to hype his seedline so that once his state legalizes he can profit hugely from said hype, which he flat out told everyone a few months ago but then deleted as he does with most of his posts - is that he only breeds with females, because lesbian porn is a lot more fun for him to watch than straight porn. I wish I were making this up. 
I think you may be falling into the trap of believing people are good breeders simply because they’re good at demonstrating their contempt for everyone else.
As far as whether feminized plants lead to instability, I have no input. I don’t know, and I’m happy to admit it. If anyone actually does know, rather than having some guesses based on other species of plants and animals, I’d be happy to read it… but I suspect those experiments haven’t been run, or if they have, haven’t been made publicly available. For that matter, breeders with methods sophisticated enough to run those experiments are probably breeding based on the results of PCR tests in the first place, not just smashing together two plants and then waiting three months to see what happens with the warehouse full of plants the seeds generate.
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That very well may be true. Let’s take this one individual out of the picture though. OG is home to some pretty good growers, I can say that much. I can’t say anything about it’s breeders because I haven’t done enough research.
As a community, what could we do to either prove or disprove these ideas?
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I don’t think we know enough to know how to really scientifically prove this, frankly. How do we determine plant stability, even one generation in, much less 100 generations in? I don’t think anyone here has any better answers than “grow it out and see if it herms,” or at least not actionable answers given the kind of resources we have here. Anyone reading this thread have access to a lab where they could run PCR tests, or access to even a piece of the only-partially-mapped cannabis genome? If so, does anyone even know what unstable genetics would look like to compare an inbred feminized line? Unless I’m mistaken, we don’t even know whether there’s a “hermie gene.”
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You can believe what you want but you aint right for that matter. How would i know that feminizing cannabis for generation after generation isnt going to destory it? Well ive already told you… If a female seed is born, the Y chromosome from the dad are never used or in the mix at all, that why its a girl XX. So next time that girl produce another female seed, that Y chromosome from the dad does nothing and so on and so on. A line of 100000 years of females will never ever ever have been in contacts with the Y chromosome. That why its a female line. So using female to female or male to female doesnt matter from the females perspective. The other 9 chromosomes from the dad have nothing todo with gender and are not special in any shape or form just because they came from a male, they have the same genetical markeras as a female of the same sort.
Female seeds are not monoecious, they are still dioecious.
Breeders will probably never share any genetics that the competion can use with ease. Its like giving money away to someone else.
Edit: so you see, you dont have to do any experiments because how dna is proven to work and If you understand how dna works, you will know that this is not a problem.
Pz 
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Was not claiming to be ‘right’ or anything. I’m simply here in pursuit of the truth. To me this is mind boggling, and that’s why I ask questions. To me it’s completely fascinating how that could be the case, we could go on for 100,000 yrs with no Y chromosomes because the females already have everything they need. This has huge implications for me as someone who wants to breed with a mutant (recessive trait) which is an XX-linked trait anyways. I would like to understand more to fully benefit from this knowledge.
I don’t know what to google to read to find out what you know. Would purchasing a college textbook on plant biology be a good start?
I get that they are still dioecious but what would you call a female that’s hermed? A dioecious hermaphrodite? Genuinely curious… that sounds like it contradicts itself because herms are monoecious by definition.
I believe this to be true for pedigree and selection criteria (what we could call breeding), as well as the seeds. I think they keep everything under wraps except the females seeds (what we buy). It’s all trade secrets.
Thank you for taking the time to respond. I do appreciate it.
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Exactly what is going on in this thread and why is there flaming and talks of muting members for asking about someone’s unicorn?
Don’t all speak at once because that would be hectic.
Also, get it back on track or it can get temp closed until people cool off 
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Interesting.
Those with unique cuts, or thought to be extinct lines would certainly be better off jealously guarding them.
Around my parts, the good stuff is on lockdown. I had the plug and every high grade cuts shared with me would come with an endless list of limitations.
Can’t share
Can’t produce more than 10lb a month
No cross
Can’t sell unless it’s to that crew
Etc
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Dna is a remarkable thing indeed! My suggestion to you would be to hope to the tube and watch educational videos about DNA in both plants and other beings. Especially about Dominant and Recessive genetics. There are more type of traits then just those two and its very useful information when breeding. I think Youtube have alot of good information about biologi and dna with very very educated people who explains and visually show you how things work. Collage books tend to be very technical and you need to have an established base of knowledge in the area already.
I really wish you good luck with your mutant adventures 
Yes, dioecious hermaphrodites would be very specific for that case 
@Mithridate Yes, ive been through the same thing where the only thing i can do with something given to me is to only grow it out. Its sad but i guess its in the human nature to be every man for himself. Even though we have lived around 200k years in tribes.
Pz
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Hot Topic like the nerd t-shirt store up in here damn!
my total laymans understanding/opinion on sex is:
females consistent and reliable.
males dynamic and risky.
this works in nature because one male can fertilize many females. this makes “the math work” on riskier/more dynamic males, the power of positive mutations outweighs the many duds that fail. we see this in everything from animals to ancient philosophy (father god the creator, mother earth the nurturer) to the human genome (historically a much higher percentage of women reproduce compared to men).
i think the general sex stuff expresses itself well in cannabis. feminized breeding allows for blending fashionable known quantities reliably, like a cocktail. traditional breeding allows for more dynamic mutation/evolution.
i’d imagine because we’re a gazillion years into natural cannabis evolution we’ve got a whole hell of a lot of runway on feminized breeding before disaster strikes and we run the pool dry 
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That’s what I was thinking
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You will strip some of your genetics when you only use females the females just don’t pass as much genetic material the males have more chromosomes I forget the number it’s like a bunch of allials /alot of data , ever think how they breed out all the other cannabinoids on accident? I mean think about, if you lost 1/10 of the allials everytime you selfed idk it makes sense to me lol on down the rabbit hole
In a way yes, but no.
The Y chromosome have more data then the X chromosome in cannabis.
A seed producing plant will pass over mRNA to the seed which is normaly a female.
So there is differenses between the two.
All cannabis got 20 Chromosomes no matter of gender, 10 from P1 and 10 from P2. Males can only pass over that larger Y chromosome to other males, so in female plants. The size of the Y chromosome doesnt matter.
Pz
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I know this could sound wrong but,whenever stating some rule/knowdoledge/lesson/fact please can you hand in or quote the study/evidence from where It comes?It all becomes myths and Broscience if not supported by educated content/source 
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Males are essential to breeding, period no they are not necessary for growing bud but if you are trying to move forward and progress the community and not bottle neck the gene pool again! Then please when you breed seed don’t be lazy use males. #malelivesmatter lol
Then where does the epigenetics reside? Smarty pants lol (just poking fun)
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It sound like you have read alot of the same bro science i have on different forums. Its ok, thats you opinion and I respect it. As I stated before, it doesnt matter If you use males or females, as long as you follow a breeding protocol. Only thing ive stated are, that for potency and for a faster breeding schedual. Fem breeding have a major advantage, and we are discussing how to breed potent plants here. The gene pool is/was bottle necked because of large hype companys making seeds and clones, im not a fan of it either. First we had the dutch doing their thing and later came the northern america, now we have the same problem in Thailand and pretty much all old school thais are gone.
Well tbh with you, im trying to educate and bring facts that people can google and recheck. Maybe im wrong for talking these descussions but in the end i believe that knowledge is the only way for us all to actually save cannabis from alot of problems.
Here is a paper about the genome of cannabis If you are interested to learn more about it.
https://www.nature.com/articles/s41438-020-0295-3
Pz 
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My source of is brother bone in Humboldt Im sorry I don’t have the papers to recite at the moment but I can get them if you want it might take a minute but if you really want them just DM me and I’ll get it for you but like dude said earlier it’s a lot of work especially when you’re off grid most of the time and all I got is this aggravating phone to type with I’m not Dexter the textr y’all lol