Has anyone experimented with ethylene to stabilize hermaphroditism. Was thinking if you had a Lao that was temperamental and throwing some florel in the mix would be even an idea? Sounds like a different thread but o’well
2 Likes
Yeah you can definitely do this with an off the shelf product called Florel. Should give you fatter buds too but… won’t fix the genetics inherent in the plant.
1 Like
Just thinking if you could cross it with something you know is stable, just thinking it would be something to try so you are not guessing the seeds are a true cross and not hermaph crap?
1 Like
I am only suggesting this because we are moving towards picking up recessive or incomplete dominance type traits and I have heard that hermaphroditism can be a recessive or incomplete dominant multi-allelic trait. Just know that my Lao is a mystery. I am wondering if it has some monoecious genetics. I find that monoecious and hermaphrodite aren’t the same though so…? Just one concern with stabilizing and keeping away from recessive dead ends.
IMO, Monoecious = Hermaphrodite. Both flower types in the inflorescence from the beginning.
Late flower nanners are a different thing entirely, that’s Senescence and not indicative of hermaphroditism, though could likely lead to it with the wrong selection. There are plants that don’t do that either.
You could use the Florel to ensure that the pollen you use on her is the only pollen that takes, but the Florel won’t change the fact that it’s in the genetics of the mom. You will still see that happen again in at least some of the progeny even if using a 100% stable male. Will take a few generations of careful selection to remove that from the line.
5 Likes
Yes. About that. You know how selfing a quality female-hunting through its progeny-s2 superior plants etc scheme will get you what you want ~6 times faster than mf breeding?
Well now we do the same with males. selfing a male with ethephon creates a regular line. You self that male, grow its progeny and judge the females. A high percentage of quality females in the s1 or s2 means that male is probably worthy.
8 Likes
Lmao, this hits close to home. My 3 sisters are 5’1 100pounds and I’m 6’4 280.
The genes bro, the genes.
5 Likes
The more divergent the cross, the more common are the extremes.
Remember a time before everything was bastardized. Ie indica on sativa of all sorts, oh the crazy plants you could find 
Well, one is a start 
but you are right, breeding extreme phenos with other extreme phenos is the goal here 
GMT on icmag has been breeding whorled plants as a side project for years, and Tom Hill is giving him the hardest time lol
Unlikely. I’d think selfing is the opposite if divergence, the prime criteria
Well… the more heterozygous the line, the more diversity in the s1.
There’s a reason why trends are set, for example og kush is pretty stable when selfed, which almost guarantees quality progeny. A genetic magic wand, cookie(lol) cutter cross.
6 Likes
Pickin up what you are laying down! Preach On👍
2 Likes
Here’s a pic of my “three leaved” plant, lol. It’s the first I ever got with such symmetric parts. It started with the three cotyledons, and is still perfectly symmetrical after about 8 nodes. No whorling anything. And, today I discovered it is a female.
Back when it was smaller:
This came from @NugLifeFarms420. He said it was a known trait of the Bubblegum strain.
Is it beneficial in any way such that I should clone it?
It’s maybe too late now, but what would happen when I topped/fimmed it? I was going to move it up to a 3gal pot from a 1gal, tomorrow. I almost want to pinch it to see how it would react. peace
8 Likes
Well, most will grow out of it, or clones will grow normally. If you have one that stays that way when cloned, it would have a clear advantage production wise. Extra bud every node. Damn.
I had a whorled female lifesaver, she kicked ass, thick everything. Clones were normal, oh well
4 Likes
Check the side branches to see if they’re also putting out triple leafs on each node. If they are then you can definitely clone it and keep the pattern going. Otherwise you’re best is to clone the top.
I had a couple JOTI Afghani’s that did it on every single node
but sadly that entire pack got some extreme draught stress before I took the first clone and hermed out on me no matter what I did after that so they had to go… Otherwise I would’ve made seeds
Only for sure benefit is 33% more bud with 33% more leaf to go with it. I had seen some papers a couple years back saying the added leaf/branching of trifoliates can cause slower growth compared to “normal” plants, but the one I had seemed to grow at the same rate as the others.
9 Likes
I hadn’t even thought of that. The side branches are super stunted when I cut the fans off early. But they’re starting. I’ll look. They’re in the dark now.
I remember reading about people that flowered them out were extra worried about PM, Gray mold, and stuff because of the extra vegetation made them really bushy. I have nothing to lose in that dept. We’re super dry here, too. I still wonder what would happen if it were topped. I suppose it would grow three tops, because each node is perfectly symmetrical. It sure would look cool, so I probably should. 
3 Likes
The thing about genetics is that they can never be removed trough any breeding practices.
Therefore if a plant produces a negative trait, the only way to remove it is to go back to a time before the deemed negative trait was inserted into the gene pool.
You can try to masked those negative traits but they will always show back up in future breedings
Here is an example of what I’m talking about. My Medusa version of the Nympho produces self topping.
I also notice the same behavior in the lvtk that I breed the Nympho to. .
The offspring produces 50% split top plants even though it wasn’t physically present in the Nympho that I used.
Those are 2 offspring are showing the split top trait because I breed the visual trait lvtk to the hidden trait Nympho.
If we can identify the gene that causes this trait, then we could breed plants that don’t carry it. But why remove it when the plants that have this trait produces a higher yield. Therefore the trait can be beneficial.
Im just saying, the only way to prevent negative traits is by not allowing them into the gene pool the first place. Just like people, plants carry the dna of all of their ancestors in the proverbial Noah’s arc manner. We have no way of telling when these genes were first introduced, and as well as we don’t have a way of removing them.
15 Likes
Little late to the subject but when it comes to males and herm genetics stress testing the plants is a must. I was just talking in another thread about how male dominate hermaphroditic plants will often show the female parts later then the male parts. People collect pollen or breed with the first male flowers that open and kill the boy never realizing it was a herm. I recommend cloning your seed plants and then flowering the original stock or clones and once the males start to drop pollen put them back under 18 hours of light , if they are a hermaphrodite they will burst with hairs in about 1-2 weeks. Taking the time to confirm stability in the beginning will be long worth it in the long run.
15 Likes
Male in revegg showing calyx/pistils.
Nearly every male I’ve revegged has gone monoeceious. I don’t kill them unless they go absolutely bonkers with pistils when stressed…the pic shows very few pistils, hardly worth killing him. And he was perfectly stable during regular cycle.Whereas others can shows pistils all over the plant, like really bad…those are the ones you kill off and dont use. The one in the pic is perfectly acceptable.
This may start a fight but im gonna fight for the upand comer with small space limitations…dude dont worry about it if a male didnt hermie during normal cycle, and then shows ‘a few’ hairs…when you stress it outside of normal growing conditions. We don’t grow females, harvest, then reveg typically do we? If we did, and then showed male sacks, would we kill off the line? Why? You stressed it, of course it wants to live and reproduce. They’re programmed to and you cant remove that desire without a CRISPR team in a lab cutting up DNA. What’s important is sensitivity. Don’t kill every male that shows pistils, when you stress it. I want a conversation, not a fight, these are my observations from many many males.
8 Likes
This is a good discussion, it’s rare that people can disagree on the internet without the typical emotional meltdowns😂
Different strokes for different folks, hermie plants will definitely still make seed, lol!! Have you grown out many offspring from said “males” @Mudballs ? Serious question, not knocking your style.
Personally, I see any female cannabis plants tendencies to be “herm prone” as a place on a spectrum, rather than a definitive, this plant is either a herm or not. Some are much quicker to it than others. Pushing immature plants to flower (from seed) can lead to more herms as an immature plant cannot handle stress the same.
The old heads I learned from were adamant that “true” males would not herm under normal (not human hormone induced) duress. Does anyone know if there is science to support this? I feel like I’ve seen conflicting reports about this.
Anyone know more about this?
6 Likes
Yes, that’s how i learned the whole paradigm on males/stress/hermaphrodites is biased to the point of being misinformation
3 Likes
Yea, it does seem that having some amount of herm tendency is rather common among various elite lines. So I’m personally not opposed to testing out the outliers. I just want to understand the plants processes around passing down herm prone genetics as well as I can.
The way I see it, stress testing my males is one of the few things I can do to help determine male selection. It’s basically that and intuition. Well, short of the whole reversing males process…
3 Likes
Epigenetics, gene activation, that’s where you may find exactly what you’re looking for. No one knows exactly though…only sensitivity and tendency to display is what we know so far. They all can go monoeceious, just how much of a push is needed?
3 Likes