No worries, I dont know of anyone going the selfed male route 
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I think that if your male is throwing female flowers then it is a hormone process. More ethylene is being produced by plant thus causing change in sexual morphology. With that being said this can be passed on to the females and causing them to be more stable during flowering. I would very much like a male with this tendency to pass on to my hermaphrodite females to hopefully stabilize this phenomenon. That is my observation soâŚ. Thanks for what I think is very insightful.
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I think this observation is so awesome and having this tendency can stabilize hermaphroditism IMO.
I would need a bit more space than I currently have to justify that experiment:)
Iâm trying to see if I understand what your putting down in regards to the usefulness of transgressive segregation and selfing. If selfing is the opposite of transgressive segregation, do you suggest hunting through F2âs to find desired phenoâs and then selfing them to reproduce similar seeds is quicker than trying to breed those same seeds true w a brother?
No, if it herms it goes in the trash.
This is because theyâre mostly bag seeds from herms 
There are plenty of plants around that donât throw nanners or pistils no matter what you do.
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Using herming males to âmake females more stableâ sounds a lot like Ethos 
Go check out how many people find herms in his gear from using males like this.
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Well the extreme pheno would be the candidate for further breeding. In this case the only purpose of selfing it would be to see how stable is it. Meaning if the s1 progeny give rise to a high percentage of superior plants you can be almost certain that plant will outcross very well
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What about question #1 about stabilizing the potency of a strain so in can consistently produce high potency plants with great effects.
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And @Cactus
Without genetic or gas chromatography testing, observation is basically all you have. You need to find pairs of plants if you really want to improve the line. You need to test the males for potency, or use them while keeping them, grow out the progeny and see if its improved. If it is, likely a good male, if it isnât, likely a bad one.
Could be the girl too though, youâd do well to cross the same girl to a different line and see how those come out too. Compare the similarities and differences between the two lines with the same girl, and the offspring between the two or more fathers. You may find you need a different mom and not the one you like the most, in order to produce plants that grow how you want.
Sometimes the best smoking plant is the worst breeder and vice versa. Its why you see clones sometimes labeled âBreeders cutâ. Theyâre not meant for smoking even if its from a fire line, theyâre meant for breeding.
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So was it just more a product of a rich black market phenomenon? So that, more product was being grown from bagseed, and less breeding was happening in the 80âs, 90âs?
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I think soâŚ
Chem/Chemdawg were all found in a pound of dog bud.
Pretty positive Girl Scout Cookies came from a herm cross, last I checkedâŚ
Lot of talk of OG Kushâs found in bags of TK and whatnotâŚ
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But you know how you got to that plant through your breeding practices. Many of these poly hybrids are wonderful smoke but do to their genetics donât pass on these characteristics. Horse and donkey scenario, produce a mule and then breed the mule and each successive generations degrades back to the average of both lines. Filial Degeneration is where all this goes back to and you want to get beyond this scenario. Do we take outstanding inbred lines and start trying to maximize the genetics and do this to other IBL then cross them to see if we can create something special from the f2,s? Why not, just going to take time and plants! Multiple people working on different lines with specific goals in mind and a hell of a lot of luck 
. Chance favors a prepared mind?
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Yeah cannabis is an obligate outcrosser, kinda like people 
It needs to be outcrossed to really improve the line, or rather, take it in a new or better direction. IMO, the goal of standard breeding program using Filial or Backcrossing should be to isolate a specific pheno in the line. Whether that be the best representation of the line or just your favorite, whatever. Once you can isolate the line down to only showing a couple phenos at most, then you can now use it with something else that is also bred similarly and truly put out a real F1 cross and continue the same process again.
Regardless, you need goals.
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You said a mouth full brother. And guys only make it worse by continued breeding of those poly gene plants.
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This was a point I had brought up towards the beginning of the thread. Not only are a lot of the elites from bag seed, aka from herms, they are also usually the only plant like it in the line. Theyâre recessive freaks, so any breeding with them tends to not pass on their best qualities. Youâd need another plant with the same recessives in order to pull that out of there.
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Thatâs why they only breed those plants together. And the reason that there is barely any change or improvements in those lines.
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Breeding for effect is a tedious thing. It can take up to 6 generations to clear up the hybrid buzzâŚ
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Can you explain what is meant by hybrid buzz.
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Man your inquisitive yet erudite postsâŚdude you rock, lemme just say that. What i think theyâre after is unique terpene/cannabinoid profiles. Everything under the sun has myrcene, linalool, etc. The more we breed, the more exotic we want to see how far we can push. Thatâs why i want a stable, vanilla genetic starting point, then throw in wildcard stuff, such as my trifoliate/triploid. Landraces are where you can get more complex terpene/cannabinoid than what IBL on the market have been whitewashed to, and then create a new thing.
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The up-then-down buzz that is in most modern herb from people constantly trying to recreate NL5. Combining Sativaâs with indicaâs.
Effects are king in my book. Its why I have issues with âbreedersâ that donât smoke their own gear. No effects and Iâm not smoking it, like girl scout cookies. I need other stuff happening besides just being high. Like pain relief, mental stimulation/creativity, anti-depressant, or motivation.
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