I could have saved those weaklings
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LED lighting should net be measured in watts, it doesnāt work like that, you need to do umol/s or PAR or PPFD, not watts, those donāt tell you anythingā¦
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I tend to agree, watts used, does not impart any actual knowledge of how much light is being produced. Or how intense the light is. This is what causes me to refrain from purchasing ANY type of led lighting. I just have no facts to base a purchase on. So I continue to work with my nearly inexhaustible supply of HID lighting. There I know what Iām getting. If the purchase price offsets the electric bill and keeps or improves the level of light then Iām in. but right now I do not see the value.
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I gotta tell you, i own two rigs, a Vero29 600W and a Citizen CLU048 200W, and i am running them both at 300W and 125W respectively. My elextric bill wet up $40, THATĀ“S IT! I have very little xperience with HID lights, i owned a 600W dual MH-HPS and it was very expensive to run it, and that was 10 or 12 years agoā¦
I guarantee it, itĀ“s worth it man.
PROās
- Electric Bill costs run down at least 50% if not more
- 950 umol/s on a 4x4 foot print
- Manageable heat or none at all (You can get burned with HID)
- 100.000 hours of uninterrupted performance (instead of changing bulbs every 6 months)
- No cooling to reset
- Less UV spectrum means more efficient lightining (heat vs efficiency)
- Natural light like the sun, no red no blurple or none of thatā¦
CONās
- Price tag high
And thatās about it man, off the top of my head!
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A couple of things;
I think you had some nutrient burn and maybe Mag lockout due to too much K in your soil mix.
Compost is great for growing plants, but you need a good mix like others have said not 100% compost. There are lots of soil recipes around that will work well. Also many bagged mixes that will do the same. Especially if you donāt have a lot of space to mix up bulky ingredients.
HID lights are way better than most of the cheap Ebay and Amazon LEDs. More expensive and DIY LEDs are awesome but they usually cost at least $1US or more per watt.
Also think about ventilation. Youāll need it when your plants start to get bigger or you add more lights. Itās another added complication and expense so plan ahead.
From personal experience. Donāt try to grow too many plants at once! They start out small and grow very slowly and at that point. if you are like me, you might be thinking āI have the space and these plants donāt really take much time to take care of, I think Iāll plant some moreā Try to resist this. They get bigger and start growing faster and faster. They will take up more space than you think and start needing more and more time spent taking care of them.
Wait is your tent 2x2m or 2x2ft? a 2x2ft tent is only big enough for one or two plants. 2x2m is obviously big enough for a few more.
Donāt overthink it. Good Luck!
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good advice, I echo everything Rick says. Iāve switched to LEDās and really enjoy them but thereās no way itās cost effective, I paid nearly $3/watt for professional horticulture lamps (P.L. Hortiled). Theyāre about twice as efficient as the best HPS but that would take decades to pay off the purchase price.
A friend of mine recently asked my opinion on switching from 1000w HPS to CMH or LEDās. He doesnāt have any money. I told him thereās no way heāll save money by switching. Some of the best-tasting and most potent flowers Iāve grown have been under HPS. I tell people if they really want improvement to start with a better HPS bulb. Try a Hortilux bulb and see if you get better herb and more yield. They last about 10-12 months before needing replacement.
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yes you almost have to DIY with LEDs and even then itās expensive. think i paid about 500$ USD for 640w of LED (LM561C diodes). for example the same company has a prebuilt 550w fixture for just over 1000 which would cost 400-450 to DIY w/ their components.
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Thanks for the repliesā¦ brought some more updates on how things are going. Thank you to everyone who replied.
I think that guy who explained about needing at least 400 true watts as a minimum for an LED grow was saying that for newbies like myself as a general rough estimate. It was not me who said this, I know itās not right as I have heard of PAR being mentioned as a better way of telling how much light you have as opposed to lumens which is apparently what humans can see. Iāve heard of PAR but will need to do some research into it. I just know by instinct that I do not have enough light at 135watts and need more.
I have been considering the last few days about getting a 250watt MH/HPSā¦ as with lumens I know itās over 20,000 which blows everything else out of the water. I like HPS, the results are quick and dramatic. I donāt notice the same growth with LED. I think a combination of the one 135w LED alongside a 250watt HPS will do better than if I spend 70 on another LED light.
Anywayā¦ brought some more photos, after getting rid of the three weakest to make room, I then potted the newly germinated ones, I decided to put them straight in the big pots, but now more than ever theres a need to get increased lighting. I will be getting my new light in just under two weeks now, by then the new ones should be up and ready.
More photos of the original three plants, 2 blue treacle auto and one cidarella 99
I wanted to attempt to do some low stress training on two of the plants, one is the Cinderella 99 and the other the best blue treacle auto. As they have nodes that are ready to be exposed to light, however I could not do it as I canāt think of a good way to tie them down, I have pipe cleaners and will do some more research but for the time being I used a small piece of tape on a leaf to get them down and the nodes exposed. Iām SURE this is either highly controversial or completely wrong. Iām aware itās not true low stress training, I just saw a video on YouTube and thought it will do fine until I get a more permanent approach.
New seed almost breaking through the surfaceā¦
Iām happy with the progress I have made in my new garden and I am happy with the changes and progress made to it since joining this webpage. Iām very thankful for the help and advice and wonder where I would have got without it. I dread to think.
The seedlings in this new mix were made with 50% perlite and 50% top soilā¦ The top soil was pre sieved so it was very fine and it was actually clay loam and humus. People have said elsewhere I have searched that this is fine and some people have used it. It has absaloutey no feed in it like the last compost nightmare that the three of my plants are sadly still in - John Innes compost, il never use that again.
Iām excited to see the difference in the new ones as the only difference will be the soil and also having perlite from the beginning and Iām excited to see how things go from here all in all.
I just want to be able to get to a point where I no longer have to buy cannabis on the street as I currently pay 70 a week, ten a day, my girlfriend actually gets it for me and I canāt wait to hopefully be able to grow enough to support my use. It is medical use as I have a health condition I sadly picked up in my early twenties living abroad and take medication for it everyday which makes me feel very sick and Iām physically sick sometimes and have to take them again. Cannabis helps me to live a much better life, as it does with most people who have my condition.
Many thanks for all the help - MonteCristo
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Donāt stress over bigger lights unless you want them. I have flowered under 277 watts of plasma, 250 watts of LED, and 250 watts of HPS. The plants will grow and be healthy but just small. Keep plugging away and things get way easier and more relaxing. Bigger lights and plants are way more fun to play with however. 
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if all you have is $70 for more light then HID is definitely the most light for your buck. both of them together will obviously be better than either of them alone, but will also add 250 more watts of heat
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They are looking like they are back on track. Maybe hold off on the LST for them time being and let them regain their health. You canLST them anytime really, Iād wait personally. Have a tired re-vegging ladie that is now showing cal and mag defs. I want to take clones but canāt yet, she needs to be healthy first. tape wonāt work for long haul. All sorts of junk to get clever with. Looking good. Keep loving them and be patient.
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Hey guys, back with another update!
Things have been really crazy and chaotic but Iām finally in a better position now I think.
Iāll post photos of the two blue treacle auto and then Iāll post photos of the Cinderella 99ā¦ 3 plants doing well in total. Doing well simply means alive with hope.
The first plant accidently got topped when I was trying to cut a leaf! Itās now started growing three main buds at the top which see the light but this is not how I wanted things to go. Also the second blue treacle is so small and weak. The mars 300 is really not a great light to use alone, thankfully now Iāve changed the light which Iāve shown later in the post.
These are the Cinderella below, I think this seed must of been a normal seed a feminised non auto one as itās not flowering while the other two Blue treacle are.
The 5 new ones I started only 4 came up but sadly I killed them all with an Epsom salt spray that was just too strong and they went very dark green but the new growth was shrunken. Iāll post a photo of the one I thought might surviveā¦ But Iām not so sure nowā¦
The new growth is completely shrunken and not normal. It was definitely the Epsom salt spray as when it dried after foliage application there was visible Epsom salt on the leaves!! Definitely what killed them.
Iām in luck though as I got my new light!! I bought a 600 watt dimmable HPS light and I have just installed it and my girlfriend just put an order though for California kush auto seedsā¦ Iāve now installed the new light and got rid of the mars 300ā¦ Iām feeling very relieved to have some decent fire power now with a 600. I have it set on 250w and I hope itās not going to kill my plants due to it being to strong as there only used to a mars 300.
But anyway, I have put them under the new HPS and my new California kush auto seeds should be here and ready to plant by the weekend. I have a new rule which is to only give them water for at least the first 3 weeks! Or at least until they have a few nodes. I also bought the bio bizz try pack to give it a go as people say itās harder to burn them with that as itās organic stuff, harder but obvs not impossible, I have all the plants some bloom and grow last night. So they have had big changes since yesterday, now under 250w of HPS and had Bloom and Grow fertilizers.
If worst comes to worst and they die under this light il just be starting a new grow journal on the weekend. Iāve become very discouraged with growing cannabis and Iām struggling to see how Iām ever going to be able to grow enough weed to be able to stop buying it on the street. I think these California kush auto seeds will be my second from last shot, hopefully I can learn soon and get some results.
Before shotā¦
Afterā¦
The bottles in the grow room are simply two bottles with sugar water and yeast that I replace every 2 days attempting to get more co2, it seems to work.
I will be starting a grow journal this weekend/Monday next weekā¦ I will be growing California kush Autoā¦ Iām excited seeing as I have the new light and the bio bizz, Iāve definitely learnt alot through trial and error, mostly error. I feel much more prepared now, but I KNOW I will need alot more assistance.
Thank you to everyone,
Cheers - MonteCristo
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Good exercise for the neck this pictures you got! LOL
Real nice setup, maybe nutrient burn/lockout in the soilā¦ It just happened to me and the plants looked a little like yoursā¦
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Donāt be discouraged, most apprenticeships last 3 to 6 years to learn most of what they need to be successful at a trade. You will improve with each grow. Keep it simple and fun like it should be. Good luck!
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Letās shorten those electric cords with zip ties or some tape. Itās not a good to have cords on the floor. Next lets set up the tent so you can run the light at 600 watts.
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yes lots of new growers have a problem of over caring for their plants. feed them plain water until they begin showing deficienciesā¦ the cotyledons will turn yellow first. no need to be foliar spraying epsom salts when they are tiny seedlings. just water them and donāt look at them again for a few days until you need to water again
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Thank you to everyone who replied. Things have been much better since installing the HPS and going from a 135w mars to a 600watt HPS Iāve been running at 250-400w. Iāve ran it at 250w for about 5days and had it at 400w the last two. I wonāt be going any higher until I get the right equipment for ventilation. ATM when itās on, the bottom panels are torn off (the velcro panels on the grow tent) and the top zip is left ajar to help heat escape along with the hole in the top of the tent, thatās open to. I have all this open when the light is on and have one small fan going over the plants and one going up toward the light which is bigger and it helps put all the air out the top.
Anyway hereās the plants, blue treacle auto first.
The growth on the small one was stunted early in life so itās stayed small and it looks like itās flowering now, small but Iām still happy, obviously I wonāt make the mistake and stunt any future plants. It has a strange smell as it has sweet tooth genetics (sweet tooth X blueberry) The other one which was super resilient when all the others had problems younger, itās doing incredible, you can see where I accidentally topped it and itās grown loads! Three main buds, thereās a fourth trying to get up also lower down. I assume size is the reason for the difference in flowering stage, one seems further ahead, the small one. Itās confusing to imagine how buds are going to form but Iām excited to see.
Side by side comparison after 6 days with HPS
Before HPS with mars 300
250w HPS - 6 days later
Anyway here is the cidarella 99, obviously itās not an auto as itās just vegging but Iām going to keep it vegging and flower it at the same time as the California kush auto and red dragon auto seeds that I just started germinating yesterday. I will be starting a grow journal for them, growing one red dragon and four California kush and flowering the Cinderella 99 at the same time. Going to be fun! Iām really excited.
It seems the Cinderella has some magnesium deficiency which Iām treating with Epsom salts. I also have been giving the plants 2.5mls of bloom and top max per litre of water and also gave the growth one once as a kind of tonic for them, the Cinderella gets just the growth one but I will start giving it 1-2mls of top max also per week as it is fulvic humic acid which is meant to help alot even before flowering. Does anyone else use top max or any of the other bio bizz range??
GrapeApe, Thanks! It would be good to know what adjustments I would need to make with this tent to be able to run my light at 600w? As I know it will be expensive but im so grateful to have the light especially after seeing how effective it is. I will probably be buying an extractor fan and carbon filter combo sometime soon as I think the smell will probably be alot with the HPS growing it, Iāve never been this far before so itās all new to me.
The light can be run at 660watts, 600w, 400w and 250watts. 250 is nice and cool, 400 is manageable and I havenāt tried 600 or 660 yet and wonāt until I get different venting equipment.
Madscientist, LOL!! Thank you! Sorry about that, I take all these photos with my GFs iPhone! And she WhatsApps them to me, I need to buy a real camera sometime soon so I can take some real photos!!
Thanks for all the replies, I will be starting my grow journal next week so I hope you will all join me for that!
Peace - MonteCristo
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Hi, back with some more photosā¦
Things going well. The two blue treacle auto are floweringā¦ Getting bigger every week, I wish they had not been stunted early on, it will be a very small harvest but a harvest none the less, they will probably be ready in January?? What does everyone think??
Next up is the Cinderella 99, which I taped down again much better than last time, the branches are getting much thicker and longer, growing up, Iām happy with this and just wish Iād bought all non auto seeds as I definitely think getting to grow it before flowering is crucial.
The light has been kept on 400w and I plan on keeping it there. I will be starting a grow journal as out of the 6 seeds I had, 2 did not germinate, 2 plants died because I forgot to change the soil which had killed the last plants (lmao dumb AF I know) but two have survived and here they are. They are California kush autoā¦
One of the ones im declaring dead for an unknown reason, this is what happened to it, it was growing fine and then I think its roots hit the soil that was soaked in molassesā¦ the growth then went weird, here it isā¦
Very strange I knowā¦ I will definitely get around to starting my grow journal as Iām off work this week so plenty of time.
All the best - MonteCristo
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you could also try a super auto which are supposed to grow for longer before beginning to flower
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Never heard of a super auto beforeā¦ Hmm is that how some people get them huge, I always wondered
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