A hybrid hydroponic / hempy bucket idea

I’ve decided that recirculating systems aren’t all they’re cracked up to be. Currently I’m running an ebb and flow pot system, standard flood and drain with hydroton, and previously, I was growing in coco with drain to waste.

Initially, I had thought that reusable media would keep my costs low, and that with a recirculating nutrient solution, it would save on water and nutrients. While this is partially true, I am underwhelmed by the water savings (because you have to regularly change the reservoir anyway, and plants actually drink a large portion of it). Also, it increases the pH control requirements, adding more pH down into your nutrient. It shares pathogens across plants, and feeds an ever-changing nutrient profile that degrades within 2 weeks.

Hydroton is fairly reusable. However, in the past few grows, I feel that it has also degraded. Mind you, I’ve ‘cleaned’ it nearly 10 times by now, but it appears to cling onto shit and also cleaning products that eventually cause problems as well.

I want to go back to top feeding. I feel that it’s good to keep an overall flow of nutrients downward and out the bottom of the pot. Last, I have always wanted a system that allows the plants to decide when to feed themselves.

Here’s what I’m starting with:
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It’s your typical ebb and flow bucket system. Normally you fill into the control bucket, which pushes water up through the bottom of the bucket until the nutrient level turns off the float switch. The nutrient solution floods the pots for a period of time, and then the solution is drained by pumping the nutrient back out of the control bucket into the reservoir.

And here’s my conversion plan (perfectly drawn in MS paint to a 7 year old’s standards):

Everything still remains automated like the ebb and flow; however it takes some ideas from hempys. Rather than filling the pots with hydroton, I will first put a hydroton layer on the bottom to elevate the base where the fabric pot will sit on top of. The reason for this is to add a little more volume of nutrient solution that will allow some wicking and dispersion of the waste.

On top of that, I will put a fabric pot and then maybe an inch or two of perlite inside at the bottom. I think I would like the coco coir to be just slightly above the water level, and the perlite will allow enough wicking to account for the hysteresis of the float switch.

Finally, the high drainage coco mix goes on top of that. The reason for using 50% perlite is so that the media drains quickly so that the float switches will be responsive and not over-saturate. Also, this allows the roots to grow densely in small pots, which I have had good success with.

They will be top fed using dripper stakes, like the usual netafim dripper assemblies or the ones from floraflex (both inexpensive). I am not quite certain what flow rate to use. I’m considering slow drippers ~0.5gal/hr so that they will not feed too quickly and give plenty of time for drainage.

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In this scenario, I would probably set the system to feed all day (although it will stop once the float switch reaches level and stay off for many hours at a time). And at night, it would remain in the ‘drain’ phase the whole time lights are off – though I would disconnect the drain pump.

Like a hempy bucket, the plants would consume the nutrient in the coco, and then wick up some nutrient from below. Once enough has been consumed, the nutrient level would drop and cause the float switch to turn the pump on. Then the drippers would rehydrate the coco, and drain enough to raise the float and shut back off.

The main advantage is that the plants are now feeding themselves. The timer is irrelevant, and the plants can claim more nutrient at precisely the time that they require it. The fabric pots also act as a filter for the coco, so that it doesn’t clog up the lines. Waste accumulates in the areas below the pot and at some point is likely to become ‘hot’. I imagine that maybe once a week, I’ll just need to drain the control bucket completely and let it refill.

That’s all for now! I’m going to decide what I need to make the retrofit and snap some more pictures soon. If anybody has any other good ideas or input, I’d be happy to hear it.

Also, on a side note, all of this could be done very inexpensively with a cat litter bucket a cheap float switch and a timer. The $250 active aqua control bucket is really overkill here. You can buy a 6-bucket expansion bucket kit for about $100, so with a little creativity this can be a fairly cheap method. I’ve been racking my brain over a simple way to make a plant-led feeding system, and I’m optimistic that this will work.

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Ohhh you got my internet here, I’m watching :eyes:
If this works out well I may have to adopt part or all of this style system…

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Look into dual root zone growing it sounds really similar to what your doing. “potent ponics” is a youtube channel and podcast that covers a ton of info about that. Mind you he takes it a bit further and does aquaponics but alot of the same concepts apply.

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Great, thanks for the info. I’ll check it out!

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@Neb @lefthandseeds @LemonadeJoe
This was filmed November 1st, 2018. but it was posted online 2 months ago from “potent ponics”

It’s Subcool talking about Overgrow.com
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=UUziOdD0Ubc

I’m watching this right now.

Subcool Quote " Overgrow is responsible for the Modern Cannabis movement in my opinion "

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Thanks for sharing that @CADMAN

So awesome! I’ll listen now. :smiling_face_with_three_hearts:

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I just finished :heart:

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reposting for @CADMAN

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@lefthandseeds, I look forward to seeing your results after you get a couple of grows with your new setup under your belt.

I often grown in an ebb and flow bucket setup, and have been for many years…

I’ve used the same hydroton for 10 years without issues. However, I probably clean mine differently than most. I don’t use anything but water and pressure. Here’s my secret weapon:

I use an electric pressure washer so I can do this indoors all year round. First, I pull as much root matter out of the hydroton by hand that I can. Then I clean it by placing it on 1/4" hardware cloth attached to a wooded frame made with 1x4’s, which sits on top of a 50 gallon tub. I put about 1 inch of hydroton across the entire 2x3.5’ surface of the hardware cloth, then spray straight down with the pressure washer. It take less than a minute to clean off all that hydroton, and you can get through a bunch of it rather quickly.

Years ago, I used House and Garden’s nutes, and changed the reservoir every week. More recently, I’ve been using Greenleaf Nutrients’ 2 Part MegaCrop formula, and I top off as needed. I might empty the reservoir once or twice during the flowering period, but I’ve also gone the entire time without changing it. I can promise, you, I do use less water this way, and obviously less nutes.

This may not work for everyone, but it’s worked out OK for me…

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Thanks for the suggestion, @CADMAN… Seems like great unreleased footage! I’m listening to it now…

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Have you seen the PPK/Passive Plant Killer method? Yours sounds very similar with one of the differences being a larger gap between the nutrient fill level and the fabric pot. There’s an actual wick that transports the water into the coco so there is no direct contact between the fabric pot and the water.

Couldn’t really tell you the benefit of it vs your idea. Maybe a bit more aeration at the bottom when the fill level is at max?

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I would listen to @mufafa. Guy knows his shit.

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I haven’t but I’ll check it out and see if I can get some more ideas.

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I love this idea, and am amazed you’ve had such success reusing for that long.

Are you ever worried about disinfecting? I usually clean mine in a chlorine solution by hand, it’s a huge pain in the ass.

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I pay attention to what’s happening in my reservoir and with my plants, so I can’t say that I never worry about it, but I’ve never had issues. There was a time that I used to soak the hydroton in a H2O2 solution after cleaning it off, but I even moved away from doing that without any problems.

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Man I gotta know what strain that is lol

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It’s a GSC that I’ve been working with for the past couple of years. She’s a very special lady in my life :heart_eyes:

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Progress made on this today. It’s going to be a very simple conversion I think, but I did hit a few snags.

Right now, I’m running experiments and working out details in the drip system. First I detached the fill line, which is flexible poly tubing. I used a coupler to fix it to poly tubing. The flexible tubing is a little bit too thick for the screw connection to secure it. It’s not dripping, but I might clamp it. Note - use a heat gun or hair dryer to warm poly tubing before pushing on connectors… if you’ve worked on a sprinkler system you know…

Next, I hooked up a 2gph emitter and ran the lines. No cilantro. My wee hydro pump couldn’t hit the pressure required to push water through it. I got out my big aquarium pump and that couldn’t hack it either. What to do… I know, drill!

Fortunately, it’s easy to drill out the netafim emitters, because they’re straight through. I have some rain birds that couldn’t be drilled. Either 3/32" or 7/64" drill bit seems to be the right size. Smaller bits didn’t clear enough plastic in the body and larger bits won’t fit. The 1/8" netafim tubing and the drip stakes seem to do a pretty good job at restricting flow already. I will probably run either 1-2 lines per drilled out emitter, because 4 seems to not push enough flow.

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I’ve got tons of those emitters (the red or green one in the poly). Dripless emitters, and they require like 20-40 PSI to work. There’s a diaphragm inside that when there’s 20PSI allows water to pass, but lower PSI (ie the timer is of and its just water in the lines) it wont allow water to pass… Many times these emitters are hung from a mainline ran above the garden, and if they didnt have that feature, they would drain the system each time the timer closed the valve.

There are versions that you can disassemble and remove that diaphragm… I have some 1gph versions like that.

You may want the flag style emitters though, they do not require pressure to operate…

OR

Send your pump into an air manifoldm use it as a water manifold instead. I did that for my lettuce hydro NFT system this summer. 8 Port metal manifold with valves and 3/8" input, 1/4" outputs…

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Yea thanks for confirming. I thought that might be the case, but wasn’t sure. I’ll use them outside this summer on my sprinkler line.

Instead of drilling out all those nice little emitters, I put these on order instead:
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(PN 1109006-B)

I think these cheap little insert connectors should do what I want. The stakes seem to do a plenty adequate job of limiting the flow rate. Without the stake, the flow is actually quite high after I drilled the emitters. They are these:

So the path is pretty restricted and it limits it from a flow to a drip. That seems to be enough to do the job. I just need to add in a banjo filter because those could clog pretty easily.

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