A micro living organic soil grow

[minitiger]

@GnomeyByNature

so you go a couple weeks in a one gallon and then up pot to a seven gallon? If you were at around a 7+ week Veg stage in a one gallon, how often do you think you’d be feeding?

No, I veg in half-gallon pots, not one-gallons. I do that for between 14 and 17 days (call it weeks 5 and 6, kind of). It really just depends on the plants. I use plastic pots for the seedling and veg stage (to me, it’s easier to slide the root balls out of the plastic pots) and just wait until I see some roots poking out of the drainage holes.

I really don’t “feed” per se. Aren’t you using a pretty amendment-heavy soil mix? Something like Coot’s etc? You really don’t need to be adding anything, unless they’re looking rough. Since you started adding a bunch of stuff early on, it really makes it impossible to know if the plants are suffering (although I really don’t think your plants look bad) because they “need” something or if it’s a result of you frequently adding a bunch of stuff.

I really honestly don’t have any sort of “feeding regimen” or anything like that. I’ve followed the schedule on the first page of the no till thread on grasscity before; most of the time, I just do things when I think about, if I think about it. A little coconut here, maybe some fulvic there… In a mix like Coot’s, I haven’t felt it necessary to do much. I’ve had the same quart bottle of BioAg Fulvic for about five years, if that helps give you an idea.

At seven+ weeks, I’d be flipping right now if I was in one-gallon pots. Probably would’ve flipped a little earlier than that, to be honest. But you should be fine. Although I do think you’ll be needing to do some top dresses once you flip, just because of how small the pots are.

[GnomeyByNature]

Ah ok, well I think I’m about 9.5 weeks from seed drop so you I give you two weeks to catch up

@minitiger yeah I would have liked to have flipped them earlier, I think I may just flip them in the box they’re in right now while I finish the other box… main difference between the boxes is 3K vs 4k lighting which isn’t that big of deal and maybe it will actually help me a bit in keeping the stretch down… will def want to get them in the 3K though one the buds start coming, I think I’ll be able to get it done… the other big difference that will help in my next box is I’ll have a dehumidifier hooked up to it.

As for how they look, I think they are coming around, it’s interesting that one strain is doing better than the other, but I guess they say some are more finicky than others.

And the soil I used and added to was B.A.S.’s Light Mix which I believe is based on coots like you said but something is light about it lol

I’m also still curious about the pests, I tried to get some bad macro footage I’ll be uploading a bit later with a build update as well.

[Badger]

@minitiger

Yeah, I start my seeds in those little three-inch “starter pots” or whatever you wanna call them, in the same soil mix I use for everything (Coot’s).

I thought that was too hot for seedlings.

[ChemicalDependant]

I always use the unamended base soil, since I’ve always read that. But I also planted them directly into 1g of super soil and they didn’t seem to care vs just the base soil.

[minitiger]

Not at all. I’ve never done it any other way, I just plant the seeds right in the soil, no soaking or paper towels or anything. In fact, for my current run, I’m growing in soil that I’ve grown in twice before and re-amended before this grow. I did let it sit for a while after I re-amended, maybe a month or so, can’t remember exactly how long. But I probably could’ve used it right away; the only reason I didn’t was because of the schedule I’m on.

[minitiger]

@GnomeyByNature

I think I may just flip them in the box they’re in right now while I finish the other box

That’d probably be for the best. Even if they only stretch fifty percent, you’re still not gonna have much headroom. I always veg for sixty days at least, so ordinarily I’d say let them go another week, but my tent’s seven feet tall, so… Probably best to flip ASAP. Especially considering those one-gallon pots your plants are in. At this point, those pots are probably mostly roots.

One other thing I keep forgetting to mention: in soil, everything happens way more slowly. It’s not like hydro, where you’ll be able to see if you did something good or bad in 12-24 hours. You really won’t be able to see the benefits of anything you do for about a week, which is why adding a lot of stuff really quickly makes it kind of impossible to know what’s going on. Sometimes I think I see the benefits of coconut water or whatever the next day, but I’m pretty sure that’s just my imagination…

[GnomeyByNature]

What do you guys do right when you flip?

Do you immediately turn up your ppfd to like 700 or something, or do you work you way up?

Do you start it with shortened light first or longer night first?

Do you immediately lower your humidity or same thing and gradually do it?

Defoliate first week?

[JoeCrowe]

I just shove mine into the bloom room at 12/12, nothing fancy.

[minitiger]

Yeah, I don’t know what ppfd is. I’ve got an Apache AT600 and an Apache AT200 (equivalent of about 1700 watts) in the flower tent. I just put the plants in there.

Humidity’s a real problem where I live. Or a lack of humidity is, anyway. It’s dry as shit out here. In the summertime, when it’s already dry, I also run the AC, which just makes it worse. I’ve got five humidifiers haha, if I can get it up to 50 or 55 percent, I’m thrilled. Usually it hangs out in the low- to mid-40’s, unless we get a weird day or two of 45 or 50 percent humidity. That’s rare, though.

I’m gonna assume that ppfd is some measurement of light intensity? Whatever you’re at now, when you flip, leave it at that and then gradually raise it. My lights don’t have any sort of mechanism to adjust intensity. They don’t need it. Great fucking lights, for sure.

[ReikoX]

@minitiger

Yeah, I don’t know what ppfd is.

Photosynthetic Photon Flux Density measured as micromoles per second per meter squared.

@minitiger

I’m gonna assume that ppfd is some measurement of light intensity?

Pretty much.

@GnomeyByNature

Do you immediately turn up your ppfd to like 700 or something, or do you work you way up?

Bruce Bugsby says that the plants can adjust to high PPFD in a matter of hours, so no need to do it slowly. He also suggests increasing PPFD by about 33% to maintain a similar DLI when going from 18/6 to 12/12.

@GnomeyByNature

Do you start it with shortened light first or longer night first?

Nope, just flip the light and increase the PPFD.

@GnomeyByNature

Do you immediately lower your humidity or same thing and gradually do it?

I usually wait until after the stretch to increase my VPD. Before that there is not much risk of bud rot.

[GnomeyByNature]

Day 1 Flower!!! -Wednesday

First, just want to thank all of you once again for all the tips, wish I could implement all of them.

Just using my veg box for now temporarily.

@ReikoX i prob should turn them down then, I think I I had my potentiometer at 35(%?) in veg, then went to 75 based on reading 700 ppfd, but then lowered it (to 60? I forget) cause I was having heat issues. So much so that I had to temporarily hook up my new 4” in-line fan!

Now, I’m able to get it down to approx 29.5C or about 81-82F. With this fan on constantly though, and now even with my humidifier also on constantly (during lights on) and cap mat (where altogether I could get too high of a humidity before if I wanted), I can only get it up to 55-60%. Lowering the humidity later when buds form makes sense and wish I could go a lil bit higher now but I may just leave it at one humidifier as is.

So one thing I’ve noticed, and I don’t know if this is compaction, or what it’s from, but the top of my soil has sort of become really hard for some of the pots, but seems to loosen up a bit when I top water/feed it. They seem to have dried out a bit now and I think I’m getting to a good place in that regards.

And then, we’ll, something funny and kind of ironic happened.

A couple days ago I made a change to the cap mat system. Basically, if you guys don’t remember how I’ve had it, but basically I started with these trays (that have these ridges) and at first filled them with perlite to flatten it out. Then when that wasn’t working great (got uneven amongst other things), I decided to put a piece of acrylic underneath the mats on top of the ridges to flatten it out. Well, it made it flat, but it created pockets of space where water would accumulate. This was and could be bad for many reasons, but one particular troubling reason was that it would delay the realization that I had dialed it in too wet and lead to flooding more easily.

This is how it was:

In this last photo you can also see how the acrylic was cut short as to allow the drip tape to be recessed to make it flat, but I think this only further pooled it up in the bottom.

So I decided to finally address this cause I never really liked it and came to the solution of just making it simpler by ditching the tray altogether. Instead I used some panda film and sort of made like a shower pan out of it:

Now, when I over dial it, I am able to notice much quicker, and I think the ceramic analog auto watered gets soaked better and stops better.

The ironic part, flooded a tiny bit the first day after lol

What’s even more ironic, the pots were drying out and needed it especially with the increased heat that came with the new lighting that I set the night before and was hot while I was asleep. Funny how things work out sometimes

Here you can see the tiny bit of flooding.

And finally, yup, a lil more feeding lol
1/3 of an 1/8th of a teaspoon Humic, 1 teaspoon aminos, and maybe 1/16th of knf bloom ferment all in approx 400ml of water part of which I also gave to my rooted clones (before I added the bloom).
I want some greener leaves damnit

[minitiger]

It’s possible that the addition of humic acid so frequently is what’s causing the leaves to yellow. I know that when I did the grasscity no till watering regimen thing, I was watering with fulvic every twelve days, but I was giving them wayyyyy too much each time. I had one of those eye dropper-type things to measure out the fulvic and for some reason I got the measurement wrong. Ended up giving them about ten times what they needed each time I’d use it and the leaves really yellowed up. I didn’t figure out what the problem was until the end of the grow, after the plants got pretty fried. The flowers still came out really good, though.

I know you’re giving them the proper dose, so it’s probably not that. Still, fulvic/humic acid is powerful stuff, for sure. Especially when you’re giving them ten times the recommended amount haha. Have you considered doing something as simple as a top dress of fish meal or another high N amendment? Since you only just now flipped, it’s not too early. I’ve watered with fish and kelp emulsion as far along as four weeks into flower and it’s worked out fine.

[GnomeyByNature]

You are right about the humic and that could have lead to my issues for sure! I’m trying to give the tiniest dose but you never know! Basically trying to follow @KNF_Garden on IG and he gives humic every watering and aminos (which are something like 14-0-0) every week. He does say though that you have to have very light soil and that you can burn your plants for sure if not and you give too much Humic. I think I have the measurement correct now, but I may have had it too high at some point, it’s a lil tough to measure that small of an amount. I think he recommends 1/4tsp for 5 gallons of water, so when I’m trying to convert that to 400ml, it gets quite tiny

[minitiger]

@GnomeyByNature

when I’m trying to convert that to 400ml, it gets quite tiny

Yeah, I saw you say something about 1/3 of an 1/8 of a teaspoon haha.

What’s KNF_Garden growing in? I mean, what size pots? Humic every watering is a lot. If they’re using big pots, like 20+ gallons, I could maybe see it, but in those one-gallons…

Humic/fulvic acids are just chelators. I’m sure you know that already. They’re not a source of nutrients or anything. At this point, where you are with the small pots, I’m not sure how much good they’ll be doing you, especially at the rate you’re using them. Right now, I’m imagining just a pot full of roots, with very little soil left to be utilized. If it were me, I’d probably focus on just getting them things they’ll be needing for the duration (kelp etc, maybe fish, since you’re concerned about the lighter leaves). As it is, there’s probably not a whole lot of soil mix, i.e. minerals, left for the humic acids to chelate.

[CADMAN]

@GnomeyByNature
Wait are you using a “flooding” system combined with a false floor wicking system for fabric pots?

Well I’ve never seen that before. looks interesting & makes me wonder how well does this work? Could this be applied to soil?
Same floorboard idea your doing, but with Soil ontop to feed the roots from the bottom.

[anon93244739]

Do volumetric dosing. Take what you need for 5 gallons, and mix it with 100 ml water. Now every ml is for 5/100th gallon.

I think that works out to 2.1 ml of the mix for 400 ml water to achieve your ratio.

[GnomeyByNature]

Yeah, “flooding” system is a perfect name for it, but not by intention!!!

Not sure if I understand your concept, but really this is supposed to be a cap mat system with just a fancy analogue auto waterer. The only reason I did that false bottom setup was cause I cheaper out on the tray and didn’t realize it had those ridges and I’m pretty sure you need to get it as flat as possible for the system to function properly.

Speaking of which, just as I spoke, I flooded it again, bad this time!!! In fact it was scary because my fan is sitting on this cup, plugged in, and tipped over!!! Don’t know how it didn’t short!!!

Well, at least I know my plastic sheet shower pan works 🥲

Might have to make some sort of an overflow drain, this thing is tricky to dial in or just not functioning properly, don’t really know. I think it is relatively new to the market with not too detailed of guidance on it so I’m sort of braving the waters so to speak

I have the plants out for now sitting on their second set of towels to try and absorb what I can put of them, so yeah, sort of a flood and drain lol no idea how long they were sitting in that.

I’m doing some further testing right now to see if I can figure it out a lil better by disconnecting it from the tape and see when it turns on.

Also testing my temp/rh with no exhaust to see what highs I get.

[GnomeyByNature]

Hmm, I may have to reread you math, used to be my strong suit tho long forgotten lol

Basically what I do is 400ml/20000ml(5 gal) =.02 and then multiply that by whatever tsp, tbsp or whatever is recommended… but I think I might have messed up here or there when some recommendations were for 1 gal and others for 5 gal.

[CADMAN]

Awesome

I’m thinking more of a large square sponge / felt material as the “floor” with the same type of water delivery system your using. To whick the water across the floor & to be soaked up by the soil ontop.

[GnomeyByNature]

Soil straight on the sponge or soil in pots on the foam like me?

There is a thicker sponge/mat that I also may consider but not sure.