Yes, but not all of Sam’s seeds were sold through TFD, and, above all, not all of the seeds sold by Sam are the same… And this was noticed by those who grew them…
PS if I remember correctly Golli received the seeds long before 2001
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These are absolutely beautiful!!!
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My little amnesia haze from Nirvana seeds. She sprouted strong but laid over a little and grew funny. I changed the light schedule 10 days ago so she’s just starting to show some pre-flower. I smoked a hydro green haze out of NYC back in 2004 or so and from what I remember I really enjoyed it. I’m hoping to do this one right.
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A discourse from my experience selectively line breeding haze (aside from ghost theory, mutations and breeding backwards though part of it).
The 88 that Silk S was found in. It was proceeded by thousands, but the line itself. SHITTY HAZE, infact shittier than most. It was nearly pure in that it was always selected NLD by each seed maker and from original stock. Infact all elite cuts as well.
Crap. JJ, when Interviewed about it in the first Piffcon acknowledged it was explored and discontinued for “being all over the place.”
Profiles all over with hay, mango and piss (none in a good way). Plants that were filled with that quinoa premature seed. Had I not found the cleanest most accurate '90 5haze in 30 yrs pack one I would never ever have revisited it.
In 88 there are ~1600 other combinations of parents than the ones I chose over ~3000 including reversing females. So far not one of the 3 males is resulting in the same even though Silk S is a 100% breeder haze which is different than an elite cuts. SC Blue Dream is a good example. Great cut, but almost none of progeny are equal or better.
This demonstrates the math of how many results can occur in a relatively small hunt of under 100, how different even one male selection can be and how a ‘crappy’ line can have total gold.
I have been experimenting with breeding theory for about 15 years of 30 gardening. I am not an academic, but have associates that are. One close friend is a professor and was the head of horticulture for Stout and his understudy is now the head of horticulture for China. DX4 is an academic and has advanced the studies of Aneoploid research pertaining to cannabis more than anyone. I barely comprehend what these associates discuss, but when I ask what to do different the answer is not much.
It comes down to doing the work and anyone can do what I have done. The line that resulted in Silk S was the typical 5% or less haze math.
The selection that is Alpine 1.0 slapped the 5 right off Nevil’s original selections. It can be seen in the pictures, but I don’t select for looks. Profile and effect. It smokes what it looks like. Here is a picture of the original 5haze catalog and an Alpine 1.0. slapped the 5 right off.
There were literally thousands of combinations to not accomplish this an one more generation then becomes near infinite or beyond what can be done in a lifetime completely.
There are plenty of short cuts and I spend a lot of time looking for them.
The 5% haze math is false and true. In one selection the line as a whole (~100 testers). Is 100% transformed. My worst tester is superior to all but 3 female in the original hunt. 10% is inferior to Silk S, approximately 10% are superior in all the same ways and the body of the population is an assorted variety of equal meeting the goals of the project.
It was not necessary to outcross in this make. It’s an fgen. There were thousands of potentials for crap. It was a long shot. Now I have a theory that if I don’t play it perfect it will all go slack again. There are cycles greater than just generational encoded.
Anyway. I am not an academic though I love research. I am a risk taker boundary breaker in everything I do and sometimes it hurts like hell, but one time around, may as well go all in.
My main point is everything is both correct and incorrect. There are no absolutes. It’s a convergence of art, science and philosophy in the playground of creation.
One more belief I have. There is another boundary to break with this plant. There is something further we haven’t had happen yet and part of that is going into the past.
I know I might come off as ego sometimes, but it is just passion. The bottom line message I have to share is do the work. Hold a standard and the lucky breaks will happen.
The pictures are catalog, Silk S (record holder from shit line). To Alpine 1.0 (superior to Silk S in effect and profile)
This is all part of a restoration project years in the making. I am not even into NL for the most part, but use and breed old NL for the simple use as a gauge or weather vain in the restoration and "extraction process of line breeding and ghost hunting backwards.
That is not to say 5 doesn’t have a part to play. Everything needs to be fully re-tentioned backwards separately. There is no way to get the profile specifically of original 5haze without it, but have to first go further back accurately.
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I’m still smelling Columbian… They will smoke well. Not grown in the best conditions. All were in tiny 1g pots. My temps were all over the place. PGE is the bain of growing in Cali.
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This is the image gallery forum where we post and comment pictures of haze, not where we talk of our 3000 Haze plants and 30 years of gardening to show us only one indica flower.
That’s not to much ego lol that’s to much marketing and others got banned for to much marketing.
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@chodycap Every bit of what I posted is for encouraging others at any level of interest with actionable experiences that are relative to haze. The main point is that anyone here can crush it with haze compared to the ones that claim to. I market ideas and potentials. The lines I am discussing are not for sale.
If you only want a comic book style gallery then it is really easy to skip over content and rub one out. However, people who learn from those around them through both testing and disregarding will quickly outpace those limited by bud porn interests alone
However, I will try to keep it in your comfort level from here out. Thank you for your input 
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I wouldn’t worry about him @StoneGuru. He exclusively posts in the Haze thread throwing shade at people, yet hasn’t posted a single pic of an actual flower of his own yet. 
He has not contributed anything here except negativity and I have my doubts he grows or has even sampled haze flowers, despite his yapping.
To be honest I am a bit skeptical of some of your claims ( I think I said earlier in the thread if someone tells me they have the BEST of anything I am always skeptical )… but I enjoy your obvious passion for Haze and the stories of searching for your white whale. I look around at the most influential breeders TBH and almost all of them have large egos… Tom, Neville, Sam, JJ, Bohdi ect ect. Being confident in yourself is not a bad thing in of itself at all, letting your ego blind yourself to new ideas is though. I havent seen that in you at all.
Keep at it buddy, I for one want to see you find your White Whale.
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I am aware that in writing I may come off like a dick at times, but I have been careful to not make a claim that my haze is better than anyone’s. I don’t think I have done that even with my ol’ pal OJD. I may have taken something to far about hempy haze once upon a time. 🫠
For people who’ve known me for awhile, much of the content is repetitive and isn’t of much new value.
Some of it might be useless, some conjectures and assumptions, but all are my experiences. Breeders have historically not disclosed and documented their processes or experiences and little to no evidence of the work that went into their craft.
I am trying to be thorough because there is then a road map of ideas and tech to test.
It gives everyone a boost because they can practice or be aware of these theories and advance their goals with them, or perhaps find them to be snake oil and disregard them. Either way everyone’s contributions serve the whole and without the many tips and lessons of the community I would have had a whole different experience.
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And thank you for the kind words of wisdom and warning of pitfalls @tropicalwave It’s a series of keys. I am doing the work. I am being reserved until I am satisfied with the restorations, preservations and keys.
I have a vision for what to do next and I do not think anyone will have a problem with it.
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Heh I should almost change my name to @tropicalwave at this point… It always gives people trouble. I’m at 55N though so I would feel like a dupe! Although with El Niño this year, winter has almost felt tropical… it was 6C the other day.
Also if you knew me, I am sure you wouldn’t call me wise. You would wonder how such an idiot has built a decent life for himself. At least I have my looks…
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. It the words of Phantom. There is already a haze thread that serves as a burning trash barrel to warm the homeless at night"
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Beautiful and loaded with beans!!
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And let the trading begin
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Sam sold them seed by the Kilo and cheaper than it would cost them to produce the seed in house in Holland, this was posted by Sam.
The O Haze being grown in the 90s and early 2000 looked very different to that of what I see grown now.
The flower time alone was much longer.
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I’m having a hard time believing the kilos of Haze seeds story. Just from my own experience looking for OHaze seeds In Holland in the 90’s and 2000’s. They were rare, hard to find, and very expensive. Only a few stores had the real thing. Most were Hybrids including The Flying Fake Dutchman Haze. There really isn’t any evidence of anyone selling Kilos of real OHaze seeds in Holland at that volume.
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Sam and Rob had Green houses full of plants and were at the time the only ones to get a licence in Holland to do grows like that. So producing large volumes of seed to sell to retailers, makers since, and I don’t know why Sam would lie about this.
Late 90s is when I logged online and I could order Original Haze online easily all the way up until the FlyingDutchman sold up to Sensi. I can’t remember if seedman sold original haze back then.
Heaven stairways I think it was called at Cannabis World stocked the FlyingDutchan seed as did others.
Buying seed in Amsterdam on the ground is hit n miss and just because a store there had no seed that don’t mean other stores including the ones online had no seed.
The only person selling Kilos of Original Haze was Sam, and he has posted saying he did.
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