Yeah, it would be cool but probably also impossible to get a complete one.
Here in Scandinavia we only have hemp and have only had hemp, much like Russia.
If you want some wonderful reading, start to dig and poke around about slavery and the spread of cannabis. They are very linked, and it’s only understandable that they wanted to take the edge of reality.
Pz 
yes, indeed. it is known that USA medical companies which operated in Colombia before first world war got their genetics from dutch company that was growing coffee at Java and using cannabis plants as repellent plants. and this dutch company brought genetics from India to Java. but before that american companies were working with broad leaf cultivar that didnt grow so well in Colombia, so they had to cross it with genetics from dutch coffee company at Java. and thats the most probably colombian genetics like we know it, and thats why it contains some cbd, mostly probably. so not thai really. and I dont mean it is broad leaf x indian sativa, as of course due to tropical environment and simple selection through years it went to sativa side heavily.
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Love that last post, Maha. I’m a huge Ace seeds fan. They are doing great work IMO. I grew F3 NL Haze last year. It was not suiting me, but I understand how some may like it for ease of growth. Shorter flowering and all. We are hopefully entering a new era with Tom’s new seed drop. I dig the lumbo OTH and I will also love exploring deeply the new Tom drop looking for the Thais.
I see it the same man, let past be past and look to the future… I deleted as I wrote it many times and it is clear to those who want to listen, and to those who are deaf it has no sense.
new innovative forms of haze hybrids!!!
thanks to skunkman, whatever he says… and Tom we have great breeding tools.
ACE rules the market with sativa seeds, thats sure… and their description fits the product mostly…
if dutch haze is so great, I mean in tropical sativa meaning, why would creator of it cross it with tropical cultivars like mullumbimby madness(thai mix), thai or oaxacan? when it is so good, it wouldnt need it right? but it is not so great in terms of tropical quality and needs improvement it seems it is not only my opinion hahahahaha, of course those who sell those old tired and torn old forms of hazy hybrids will not admit it, it would be wrong marketing move…
you will be happy with acid beauty man, if you get some female… I dont want to hype it, but… everytime I smoke it I say “Jesus!” when that wave hits my mind… overwhelming!
ACE definitely has secured some market share with all their marketing, but would you call them sativa seeds if they have indica in the genetic lineage? IE Panama, Malawi, Bangi Haze, Golden Tiger, Guawi, NepJam, Zamaldelica.
Where’s the indica in Panama, Malawi, GT, Zam?
The Malawi is contaminated. Apparently on the Spanish forums charlie and dubi were discussing it/admitted it. It appears it came from Seeds of Africa clone - why do you think it’s " devastating and dense" ? @Upstate and @Wuachuma can speak on their experiences with the malawi & other lines. I’ve grown the Panama personally, you don’t get chunky afghan type flower from pure sativa landrace flower. Also - how does (relatively) lowland tropical sativa finish in 10 weeks?
Could be. The pure Malawi and crosses I’ve grown have been airy and very sat like. Panama is def chunky.
It doesn’t mean there aren’t still sativa expressions existing in the lineage but do you think that dubi’s self-admitted dense flower could survive in an environment with this sort of humidity:
Can you show me a reputable source of Sativa landrace ( of similar elevation/climate) from Angus at RSC or otherwise where a pure sativa landrace finishes in 10 weeks?
These guys fit the evidence to suit their conclusions. It is the opposite of science. They sure are keeping cherry trees alive though!
there is difference between landrace and worked cultivar.
I grew bangi haze and golden tiger first release, definitely more sativa than super silver haze or g13haze.
panama red itself, even 70s was never pure sativa. never. thats the first thing. but their panama is not that old one, it contains modern colombians, which means colombians contaminated with indica, thats why they say modern colombians, it is clear from their description.
I smoke a lot of their malawi and I grew african seeds malawi, I dont see much difference in terp profile. and yes it is more heavy in effect, very heavy in effect, but it is based only on one freak phenotype. it is their work with malawi. not malawi landrace. and they say it is heavy.
even some thais can provide narcotic or heavy or devastating effect, it doesnt mean it contains indica… sativas have very wide range of effect. from relaxing lazy red eye chill out to tachycardic speedy cold sweat stuff to trippy visions to mellow meditative calming to hypnotic dreamy floaty effect… many many effects. and you as breeder can choose some you like and breed that specific one. their malawi definitely has typical trance-like effect, just more heavy and less cerebral.
if you want landrace, dont go with ACE, they worked it towards indoor adaptability… but still it beats northern lights hybrids, is more sativa than NL hybrids.
If we’re going by descriptions, dubi/ACE doesn’t have very much credibility. Let’s look at the description of Bangi haze:
Here’s dubi on the forums admitting that the genetics are not what his description says:
Why doesn’t the listing for Bangi haze contain the actual lineage as described in the forum post above? How can you trust the other descriptions when Bangi Haze description is not honest?
I agree that the sativa effects can vary, and the range you covered seem to touch on many of them, however narcotic and heavy effects are the opposite of what I have come to associate with sativa…and I don’t think 'im an outlier with associating narcotic/heavy with indica. Ultimately, ACE worked their lines for indoor adaptability - and they are brilliant for cornering the sativa market the way that they have. I just wish they were more transparent like they once were in the old days. Also, not a fan of how Dubi seemingly took advantage of Charlie/CBG.
Also, how can you say that Panama Red was never pure Sativa when there are lines that go for 20 weeks+ ?
yeah I see you dont like him LOL yes first I bought bangi haze at 2008, I know it was bred by guy who is called estai, not by dubi, and dubi changed it by selection around 2014, so it not the same as it was, but even at 2008 I know that they used silver haze to acclimatize that nepalese kathmandu… so it was not mystery never. it is true it is mostly congo genetics and it had such effect indeed. now it is changed yes towards soft lemons columnar types. by the way that bangi congo came from LMN and he was known for crossing congo with white widow and still called it congo hahaha so even white widow in bangi haze is possible, it doesnt change anything on the fact I got huge octopuses pheno with little small buds, different to columnar ones, which smoked like one of the best sativa I have ever had with crazy long duration.
for average indoor grower is landrace absolutely useless material. it is good for some breeding project. but normal grower needs worked cultivar towards indoor adaptability. anyway this is haze thread, and we were comparing haze hybrids.
so their thai/a5 or oth/panama beats typical dutch haze like amnesia or silver haze… it is more sativa. so for me as sativa lover much better. I know that guys from top dawg keep othpanama cut, that speaks about quality itself…
in the end crowd of satisfied customers shows the truth.
panama red was never pure sativa. a period. it was colombian hybrid from the begging.
you are off topic anyway, this not landrace versus ace selection, but it is haze only thread.
This off topic mania become a bit heavy, the mention of sativa’s hybrid and materials to make hazes at home is not irrational i think.
I’m personally full throttle on dutched hazes, but i can understand the importance to source pure landraces or pure landraces hybrids for some projects and others profiles.
I still have some of the old Bangi Haze seeds. The plants I grew had great sativa effects, but smell and taste like sofrito. Oniony. Definitely no lemons.
Check out DJ Short’s article “Strains of Yesteryear,” it’s pretty interesting. He mentions plenty of “Sativas” that had a devastating, heavy effect.
All of that is purt near irrelevant. Quality cannabis is a moving target on the planet always has been. What matters is if it was quality or not at exact time of collection yes?
