Oh yeah. I’m reading the old Stephen King books again to ready. Trip town.
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OTH is ceiling less but much lower potency to start. AB and your other haze hybrids look to be much more challenging straight from the gate.
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you are right. it would be more fair to compare it to oth/malawi or oth/panama… but still I think it beats it. just my humble opinion.
citric thai pheno was like sitting it rocket right before start. shaking the whole nerve system, want to scream, boiling brain and huge pressure on chest… crazy! hahahaha
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The real is in '09 I grew about 7000 haze seed. I still have plenty of them I never sold them these guys are idiots lol. You are one of the few people that actually grew them honestly on the hunt.
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The reality is the same. You gunna grow 20 or 40 of these things before you see the light. It’s gunna take 6 months or your life. It’s a huge chunk of your life man. If you not gunna do it don’t waste seed man, let another guy do it man.
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I already know you will do it maha lol. I talking to the general public ha.
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Do you have a link? I read and recently @mexcurandero420 re-posted an article in the Lambsbread Freakers thread that I read years ago, citing Borneo as the genetic source of Colombian, brought there by pharmaceutical company Parke Davis. This seems likely to me, as nearby New Guniea produces plants that can have chunky buds, like Colombian can. Flowering times are close, or exact, too.
I’m not doubting other genetic inputs, but have never come across any additional information. I vaguely remember something about Broadleaf, but what was Broadleaf in the early 1900’s? Not Afghan. That was all Sativa in the early 1900’s. However, like Himalayan Sativas, there can be cbd in Afghan Sativas. So, Cbd itself does not rule out pure Sativa, as in Panama. I’d say 20+ weeks flowering makes for a pure Sativa myself. 1974 Red Cross Panama flowers for up to half a year. Lowland Panama Red is basically Punto Rojo, which has never had the word Indica associated with it, to my knowledge. Tall plants with long stems make the best rope, and Himalayan cannabis has been used for such purposes for centuries and these genetics were spread around the world. My guess would be that Indian coolies, while working on the Panama canal( and ships everywhere else) brought something from home with them that had cbd in it. Orissa Gold has cbd in it. Other tropical Indian Cannabis has CBD in it, depending on how long ago it was brought down from the mountains into the tropics, I’d guess.
This description led me to spend over $300 on a Panama Breeders pack. There is no mention of any indica, nor is there any mention of a more recent Colombian collection, circa 2005, not that saying so would mean anything to your average person that hasn’t deeply studied landraces.
Are we questioning whether this and other ace hybrids are pure Sativa? I have lots more I can add, but hate to beat a dead horse.
I have nothing against Ace seeds, except that hole in my pocket that a thousand dollars fell out of. Simply put, I don’t want any other pure landrace seed seeker wasting their money like I did. Some landrace strains are extremely rare, and perhaps the only hope of survival is in the freezers of preservationists. If you’ve got a hybrid sitting in there, you’re not preserving anything.
Had I simply been seeking some mind-blowing smoke, I do believe Ace is the place. They have made some very impressive hybrids, and I will be proud of myself if I can make anything similar. I can see that some of this online talk has made a difference, and that the truth is finally coming out. Truth is very important to me. Truth is everything.
Here’s an actual Panama sativa. 1971.
I don’t have to break out the malawi indica photo again do I?
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I think the biggest issue with landraces these days is there are very few that have not become contaminated. There are definitely some that are pure, but you’re going to have a hard time finding those.
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panama red has nothing to do with punto rojo, no. that is not the truth… that is not red panama which was exported in 70s what you have. real deal panama red was dense buds(much denser than punto rojo) with red eye chill out relax LAZY high, they called it “tequila of herb” - that speaks for itself, it finished late November in USA!.. ace panama also has nothing to do with that old panama red, like I said.
and no, not sativa at all, it was broad leaf which was used for medicinal purposes mostly in that time. it was indian broad leaf. queen Victoria smoked leafs of cannabis indica to relieve menstrual cramps. that was totally usual to use broad leaf for medical purposes before or after 1900…
ace panama was created by charlie garcia, they got it from him I dont know what he told to them, he used 1974 panama from greengrocer(it doesnt mean it was real deal panama red of yesteryear, not at all in fact, just some red variety from panama, real deal panama red is lost as well as punto rojo), and two modern colombian red varieties. modern colombian means it contains indica in it and when you see flowering times: 9 -12 weeks, how could you think it is without indica???.. I see and agree that description is really bullshit hahhaha. it is sure there is no panama red of yesteryear and 100% no punto rojo in it. also punto rojo from CBG is not real one, it is modern version of it. not psychoactive much.
I am not ACE or their advocate, if you have any problem with them, solve it with them please.
once more, we were comparing dutch haze, Humbl grew NLhaze F3, with haze offerings from ACE and we both agreed that offerings from ACE are more sativa, thats all and we were thinking about oth crosses or thai x A5 crosses, not about their panama. nobody said ACE offer landraces. me not. I am here to discuss haze if needed, as this is haze only thread.
yes old timer haze is pure sativa. their chiang mai is pure sativa, their eithiopian highland etc. and sure it is more sativa than dutch haze hybrids.
believe what you want, that you have panama red, I dont care 
himalayan “sativas” is completely different story, but I will not mention theory of precursor to sativas and indicas, this is not thread about it.
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absolutely agree. it is 2023! all contaminated… if you didnt score some before 2000, you will have hard time to find not contaminated.
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thank you Tom, I know you recognize real work.
I cant thank you enough for preservation this wonderful line, you are real breeder. this genetic material of yours speak for itself!
RESPECT
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Gratitude and respect
Hapi joy
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Ready, to put in the time…
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OK haze experts, does haze tend to foxtail ?? Im on day 82 today of 100 and Im seeing foxtailing on pretty much all buds but it doesnt look bad just not sure if this is typical. Been a pretty calm grow and just feeding Jack’s for RO. Last week cut back to 11/13 and turned down the light slightly. My environment is not wildly out of control and I have lights on from midnight to time out. Temps and humidity are not bad and my VPD is staying with in reason of .9 to 1.6 average with a few peaks when transiting from lights on to lights off with a humidifier coming on same time lights do.
I have not gotten serious about scoping tricrhomes yet, maybe in a few days and unless it really does not look done Im chopping on day 100.
Couple pics just now of plants with this pretty consistent of plants.
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for @US3RNAM3 this is green grocer panama which was used in ace panama
quite chunky yes?
charlie garcia about it: “Job made for ACE Seeds of Panaman includes a 50% (3 males at third stage) of an old panaman of big and broad leafes, 11-13 leaflets, strong structure and huge internodals got from a spanish old hippy source from the 70’s.”
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back to the haze!
mindblower 
and back to that selection problem, good selection is needed, but if it is not in genetics, you will not find it… you can go through 1000 seeds of chemdog you will not find the effect of primo thai… and you grow 1000 seeds of ethiopian highland and you will not find the effect of primo hawaiian… you can grow 1000 seeds of colombian you will not find the effect of primo congo… and so on and so on…
and to be totally clear, you can grow 1000 seeds of mango haze or any colombian dom haze, you will not find electric cold sweat hot flushes energetic waves ringing in the ears metacosmic trance mind altering effect. forget about it hahahaha and I dont say it because I dont like mango haze, as I like euphoric smoke and mango haze has nice euphoria to it.
I grew punto rojo pheno of nevilles haze, few colombian gold phenos of nevilles haze and super rare thai pheno of nevilles haze, and there is significant difference in effect between them, and while punto rojo pheno is hysterical laugh cartoon vision weed indeed, psychoactive for sure… that thai pheno was still one level above it. but still it lacks a lot compared to lime green thai pheno of original haze from Tom… that is my haze friends, the cream of cannabis… my experience based on extended testing of many phenotypes in last 13 years.
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yes, it does…
juicy woo(juicy fruit thai pheno of blues x thaihaze) foxy foxy tails. guy who grew said that his wife doesnt like it, it is too edgy for her, she asked: “can we smoke normal weed?” LOL she would like some mango haze more hahaha
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Which one do I have?
You seem to know more about it than I do. Came from 1971 panama red bagseed. 18-20 weeks flowering. Dense buds pictured.
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It was all called cannabis Indica back then. Sativa’s too. I haven’t been able to find out any nations in particular that were used to make the old oil except that it came from India originally and thus was called Indica. I’d love to know the actual landraces used if you know them.
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