Totally. Everybody’s cannabinoid receptors are different. Having said that, from what I’ve read on this thread, the “stellar five-percent Hazes” are supposedly standouts and easy to differentiate from the other 95%, so…
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I think I am so funny though. Could I be wrong? No, that’s not possible 
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There will always be chuckers scrambling to justify their selections, throwing words around like improvement etc. At the end of the day they are facing down that same 5%. That is the reality of the quantitative nature of drug type cannabis.
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Quite a bit of banter and glad to have sifted through it. Happy as hades Tom has preserved that old Positronic stock with minimal bottlenecks. Happy as hades guys like Maha sifted through the stock to find some killer phenos to F1. Me, I just put seeds in dirt and see what comes up…
Several Posi hazes via Tom. Think this one’s a female too
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See and it’s not just toms hazes that is also where the infamous RKS is hiding 
just saying
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look at the guy hes the cannabis equivalent of freebase living in the woods having the time of his life 
why would you not just run the 20 beans and try to find one instead of 2 more bodhi packs lol
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Would be cool to have the option to purchase a breeder pack where a certain number of seeds in the pack come from a few select choice females, including the 5% type(s), along with a random mix of the rest all hodgepodge style. Or to have seeds of those choice individuals separately labeled as an “add on” option to the breeders pack. Since it’s noted these types are reported to fully show their excellences with cures up to and over one year, they are likely still waiting to be discovered. Perhaps an option in the future? Although based on seed morphology alone if there are any with a reddish hue streak running across it’s shell those would be of particular interest too.
I think there are overlapping circles of those wanting to preserve the line to work and explore within their own artistic lense as well as those who are just looking for some killer haze smoke, and everything in between those two extremes.
It’s totally understandable needing the juice to be worth the squeeze. Time is sacred. These seeds represent efforts of yours and part of your energy. As an enthusiastic seed collector and hopeful customer to one day add some THH originals to the collection, I see the value in that. You’ve a right to set the price of admission so to speak. Those seeking these out are more likely the type to actually dig into and explore and highlight what’s great within. Willing to do that work, because it’s a lot of work to properly select through 150 looking for that 5% when it’s said to only truly start showing up months to a year or more after the plants are harvested. And if we’re following practical advice it would be recommended to run them more than once to dial them in as best you can individually, because that first run might obscure the great ones from presenting themselves due to something or another. That’s an immense amount of work to find the choice individuals. It’s all so very cool too. And all things considered, considering the volume of work, the time and energy investment, $250 really seems like a drop in the bucket. Hoping everyone looking for these sure to be legendary seeds scores some, and that they find a bunch of plants that work well for them too. How often do we really get to show love to legacy gardeners in this space?
There’s nothing like that electric got you peeking out the blinds thinking you’re losing your mind. Driving down the road wondering where your keys are thinking you left them in the door doing a u turn to go back and check only to hear them jangle up on the steering wheel column and realize the keys aren’t missing they’re in the ignition you’re just really fucking high. Oh shit that was my turn, totally missed it I’ll get the next one oh shit missed that one too but it’s all hilarious and cool. Slow motion cartoon land type stuff. I’m definitely saving up for a pack if there’s a possibility of that to be found in the line. Much love
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Please explain this, for I have never seen this red streak you speak of and what exactly does it point to? Thanks
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As someone who’s been growing pure haze plants for over 30 years. I can confirm that isolating the 5-10% is not as easy as it sounds. Also different pure Haze lines have varying percentages of what I would call winners. When you cross the winners together you still get basically the same ratios. Haze is a weird one for sure. If it was that easy it would have been done by now don’t you think?
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Saw it once on seed set from an MNS Neville’s Skunk with lovely haze attributes. Incense in the air. Soaring high. Not so much hold onto the ride roller coaster high, but rather a quite smooth soaring electric experience. Flow state. The only seed I’ve seen with that attribute and the high was so enjoyable. It wasn’t pure haze and I’ve always wondered where exactly that attribute came from. If it is found in original haze seeds, those are most definitely some I’d like to explore more. Hope that helps. Much love
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You wouldn’t have to isolate that 10% with original p1 plants. Its the same with most hybrids. The quality is with the f1 and were the parents making it get to play their perfect part. Once you inbreed that it begins to change that balance. So more and more inbreeding strengthens traits you might not want and the ones responsible for whats special will get smaller and smaller and that might be due to what was used to make the original p1 so cant be avoided by inbreeding.See those 10% Imagine what the p1 f1 parents were giving when used to breed.
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This fight reminds me of the old overgrow and the fight for the hogsbrethe pheno of The Hog from THC Seeds driven by Adams
Nothing achieved by anyhow and a bunch of haze lovers into fight
Positive karma K+
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that’s too funny
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Example 7.4 For three successive generations the sizes of some population
are N1 = 500, N2 = 6 and N3 = 500. Thus
It is generally desired that Ne is not less than about 30 to 50: for Ne =30,
Equation (7.3) yields ψ = 0.9833; for Ne = 50 it yields ψ = 0.99. An effective
population size of less than 30 plants is considered too small: e.g. Ne = 10
yields ψ = 0.95. These minimal values for Ne are primarily based on the
consideration that the accumulated reduction of Pnf , due to continued maintenance
of a population with a small population size, should be restricted.
The minimum does not assure complete absence of ‘damage’ (Example 7.3).
Equation (7.9) may also be applied to situations other than dioecy. In the
case of HS-family selection a selected family may consist of n plants.
The data is actually is from males not contributing to the total genome since they are fixed and pollen is not collected and combined with other males. This variation can be increased by allowing the male pollen to be combined with other male pollen and then applied to the total population. You keep even more diversity thus loss can be reduced. Tom Hill made this observation and thus uses it to maintain genetic variability.
I wonder what the % is for Todd’s OHz or has it gotten too bottle-necked and needs to be out-crossed?
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This only matters when it comes to keeping genetic diversity though. not breeding.
And even then, this is all relying on actual chance and not selection. You could keep the same amount of genetic diversity by using a single pair as using the entire population, if only you picked the right pair.
Preservation and maintaining diversity in a line isn’t breeding imo. It’s preserving. I’m not saying that’s easy at all. I commend Tom for preserving this line as it was when he got it.
Breeding is done to create something. Isolating and bottlenecking on purpose to NOT have that diversity. That is 100% the point of it.
Like this:
You need to make a choice here if that’s what you wanna breed for. If you want that 5% then everything else in there IS INDEED inferior and should be culled from the new line being created. Go make a different line with the other ones or something but keeping it in there isn’t improving the line at all if you want 5% to be more than 5%.
S1’ing is a bad example to increase that percentage. That’s not how it works. If the plant is really heterozygous, s1ing isn’t going to get you anything at all.
You need to be able to find the male’s and/or females that can pass on the traits you want. if you breed two 5% and get nothing or the same as what you had before, that’s bad parents/selection. Not some magical law in haze keeping the phenos the same no matter what you do.
Saying things can’t be improved by inbreeding is 100% drunkeness.
All I see is bad selection/choices, or lack thereof.
I took a 5% plant and through selection and backcross I have increased its pheno smells and effects to half the line. I’m not the best by any means, wouldn’t even call myself good, but damn can I just look at things.
Go look at TonyGreen’s work on the RIL and getting everything about that clone-only to show up all over those beans. According to you guys that’s apparently impossible, can’t be done, its trash compared to the clone only, idk.
Lets get off this mythical “5%” anyways. The facts would stand if trying to make a Green haze line from these beans, or brown, or gold. Or anything else.
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Some of these genes/traits don’t just propagate by 1+1=1 or 1+1=2. Look at the Freakshow breeding where the mutant leaf trait follows the male as a hidden gene requiring careful selection to get it to show back up again after an outcross. There are complex traits backed by two or three genes and will require an inbreeding to f3 with correct selection(not always visible) and/or a back or inline cross in order for the trait to show back up again.
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Blockquote You could keep the same amount of genetic diversity by using a single pair as using the entire population, if only you picked the right pair.
Can you help me understand the math with this? My understanding is that you need numbers for genetic diversity preservation.
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if you have two heterozygous parents each encompassing half the line respectively, breeding them will be all of the line.
the only reason the math checks out is because you’re not checking that. Technically you could run 20,000 males crossed to 20,000 females and even tho the math checks out, one pheno might not have ever showed up in those plants and now you’ve lost it, despite the math saying otherwise.
math isn’t 100% reality. Diversity is a numbers game because we aren’t quantifying anything.
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Theoretically Haze should breed like every other cannabis plant but in practice it tends to express its genetic diversity in a broad spectrum of outcomes. Not impossible to isolate but more difficult I would say.
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