Sole parameters for a Preservation Run, which was the original idea of the seedruns to begin with
Well, I guess before I throw a wiki up, does my Tiger Berry run need to be approved now? Or is this just runs going forward? @coopactiongroup
That’s what I mean if the individual breeder is responsible for packing and shipping the site looses out on the co op donations for that run and I don’t see that lasting long if the site is loosing out on what helps fund our community
I mean… to be fair, its a whole $2 per person per strain that the site would be missing out on. Considering most runs are 150 people, that’s $300 per strain not in the box. I’d argue that the site can support itself financially without relying on users to do seed-runs though. EDIT: I stand corrected. It’s only any excess after costs over $155 will go to the site, likely not much if any goes to OG from the seedruns. they’re for us not to generate the site money.
The deeper issue is the time and costs it takes to package seeds for others and then distribute them.
It does appear we have strayed from that
Currently only the distributors which make the backbone of the seed runs co-op. Check them out: Action Group Members
I don’t think that’s correct. It’s a non-profit, community driven effort. That $2 covers shipping and packaging… Only if there is anything left after covering all costs, it is donated to the site as it was outlined in the original statement…
Yes, that’s a fact. Please read the first sentence in the original statement. The goal is to preserve strains, not to make cheap knock-offs. Don’t forget, there are original breeder’s rights to a strain and other obstacles that prevent blanket inclusion in the co-op effort. And practically, with the growing number of OG members the distributors would be quickly overwhelmed, so they need to get back to the original mission and that is to preserve strains.
Not at all!
Hopefully I understand it correctly. The difference is between co-op seed runs and individual seed runs. Co-ops can use the system in place for the distribution (that means breeders can send bulk seeds if they are approved in the voting topic). Individual seed runs can be accepted too, but only if they pre-package individual packs.
Ah your totally right! My bad on the wrong info. Thanks for the clarification LJ!
All sounds good to me.
Thanks for clearing that up LJ. There just seams to be a lot of change within the co ops since Sebring stepping back. The original co op guidelines still in place with all these other topics re wording what’s already in place leads to a bit of confusion now and then
I see LemonadeJoe as responded but let me address your questions as well.
Yes, inevitably some runs will be denied. This does not mean a user is not free to do any seed run they want to, nobody needs approval for that. What it does mean is that some runs will not qualify to use the Co-op infrastructure. A Co-op seed run can be sent to a distributor in bulk to be packaged and distributed. There will be non Co-op runs still included in the spring and fall boxes but those runs will need to be packaged by the grower and spots will be limited to keep the work load manageable.
As much as it would be great to have everyone involved it just get’s too messy. This is one of the reasons a dedicated group has been created. We have strayed from the original Co-op mission and want to get it back on track. It was always meant to be for rare and discontinued strains and not just a free distribution network for every pollen chuck created.
This is a common misconception. The Co-op was never meant to generate money, it is meant to be cash neutral. Seeds themselves have been and will continue to be free. It breaks down like this, shipping costs are just that, money to ship. There is no surplus so that money goes to a distributor and the distributor spends it on shipping. Now you are left with the $2 per strain donation. That is used to pay for packaging materials for seeds, stickers, envelopes and other supplies used by the distributors to package and send the seeds. It is also meant to reimburse breeders the cost of shipping seeds to distributors and distributors to ship boxes to other distributors. There is no loss to the server as it was never meant to finance the server, only cover the costs associated with getting seeds from breeders to users.
There are no freedoms being taken away from anyone. Growers are still free to do as they see fit. Grow what they want and pass out what they want. You don’t need approval from the action group to do a seed run, only to use the Co-op infrastructure.
It is not, it is the parameters of the Co-op and always has been. Any user is still free to do any seed run they wish and do not require approval from the action group to do so. They only need approval for it to qualify as a Co-op which is different from an individuals seed run.
That is true and one of the problems as it goes against the mission of the Co-ops. Folks always say they want breeders here on OG but that is not easy to accomplish while stepping on their toes and reproducing their strains that are currently being sold. Especially when the site itself is involved in distributing those seeds to the masses.
Absolutely correct. Co-op seeds can be sent in bulk to distributors who will individually package them and get them into the right hands to be distributed to users in the spring and fall boxes. When it comes to non Co-op runs the grower will be asked to package the seeds for individuals. As stated above some non Co-op runs will still be included in the spring and fall boxes but they will need to be approved and that approval will be based on volumes to keep the boxes manageable. If there is room the seeds will be accepted if pre packaged and shipped with Co-op boxes. Those growers will not be reimbursed the cost of shipping their seeds to distributors but will still be able to access the Co-op infrastructure to get their seeds to members.
We are not going to back track runs already in motion, that would not be fair to the growers. This will be more for new runs going forward.
Not at all, the site does not lose anything as it was never funded by the Co-ops. If this were meant as a money maker I would think the per strain donation would be higher. The $2 per strain has a purpose and is a very low fee as it’s only meant to cover the infrastructure. Think of the Co-ops as a non profit organization.
The purpose of the $155 is so the distributors have a float going forward. So for example I will keep the $155 out of the fall box so when the next box is being prepared I can purchase supplies and pay shipping costs without having to spend my own money.
I understand change is always tough but it is important for folks to realize we are not trying to reinvent the wheel but rather get the ship back on course. The Co-ops have become a dumping ground for every seed being created and that is a huge amount of work. Approved Co-op runs will still be able to take full advantage and have all the work of packaging and distribution done for them. Approved non Co-op runs will still have the opportunity to access the distribution part of the Co-ops but are asked to do the packaging themselves. There were 13 runs sent in for the last box, asking a distributor to package 2000 individual packs of seeds, collect funds, addresses and ship is just too much and those numbers are growing. Keep in mind we are volunteers doing this for the community, the only thing we get out of it is the joy of helping our fellow growers. If a grower of a non Co-op seed run is not willing to package 150 packages of their own seeds to be distributed for them they can’t really expect a distributor to package 2000?
Feels like this is trying to bring high school level bureaucracy to something that was a great resource for the community. Cool for folks who enjoy wielding power over others huge net negative for the community. Sad to see.
Curious about what the selection process would consist of. How rare is rare? How out of print is out of print?
If I have a say I’d prefer it to be broad not rigid but your fingers are the ones doing to packaging so I get there have to be limits.
It’s unfortunate you see it that way. How exactly is anyone wielding power over anyone else? The action group has no power to prevent you from doing any seed run you wish. As we distribute the fall box in spring time it is clear that something needed to be done. Months of complaints by users needed to be addressed and have been. The Co-op is still a great resource for the community and will continue to be.
These are criteria that will be looked at on a case by case basis. I would like to think it will be more broad than rigid. This is why in the OP growers were asked to post their strain here and give as much information about it as they can.
I think it’s a bit disingenuous to say that a group voting on wether or not they will deign to distribute seeds isn’t wielding power over those who wish to have their seeds distributed.
Now that said, this is in no way a personal referendum on you @DougDawson . Huge fan and supporter of what you do for the community and I really don’t want you to take my critique as being anything other than one dude’s opinion on having a group of folks who get to reject distribution on other people’s seed runs. All the best
Don’t sweat it, I am not taking this personally at all @api312 . What you are seeing is really just a bunch of issues being addressed. I get folks just want a free for all method to be used but unfortunately that has been proven to be an issue. Me distributing the 2021 fall box in May of 2022 should show that it’s a problem.
This is one of the reasons we decided to allow non Co-ops to be distributed instead of cutting them out completely like some want. With so many members all having their own opinion we found the system we are putting in place to be kind of a middle ground.
You would be amazed to hear the different opinions and the broad spectrum they cover. Some want the Co-ops to be shut down and others want to just be able to use it any way they see fit. With such differing opinions there is no way to keep everyone happy. None of this was put in place to hold power over others, more to keep this system running smoothly so members benefit from it.
Maybe there should be 2 categories? One for approved seed runs and one for everything else. Use 2 separate distribution networks to mitigate workload.
That makes a lot of sense. This new paradigm is certainly preferable than the outright end of seed runs entirely. Again, I appreciate all you do and thanks for the clarification on these changes.
I just want to say the idea of making packs for 13 different seed runs is a huge time commitment.
I hope all these changes will make it more manageable for everyone that is volunteer time to do this for us.
Not necessary @Kabuddha , we have 2 categories already. We dont need a second distribution network. Remember the fact that OG 1 was shut down for seed sales, we need to keep things under control and avoid mistakes of the past.
I always vote “No” for politicians.
I break that word down to it’s Latin root form.
“Poly” being many and “ticks” as blood sucking creatures.