Doing the root pruning thing again, this time with MicroKote

Been way too busy, will eventually add and clean this thing up. Started this response in another thread and decided, “what the hell, might as well start my own garden thread” under a new topic.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Layout: 4X4’ alcove, walls and a side reflective panel painted with Behr’s Ultra White latex enamel which has a LRV, or Light Reflectance Value of 94.4. ViparSpectra KS5000, now on 75%, 18" above the plants. Great light!

Seeds soaked overnight, sowed the next day. Plants: 3 Afghaan 90 X Master Kush 90, 1 Cannacopia Lapiz Mtn. indica, 1 Sensi Hindu Kush, 1 Deep (Freak) Chunk indica (very stunted for while), 2 Maui Wowie probably original Mexican stock from Oaxaca.

I made the mistake of leaving my faves in my cups WAY too long and sure enough, they sat there stunted with some lower leaf drop on a couple. I knew what was wrong but with the holidays and such… Algae growing along the rootball was eating the food, primarily N and they were severely pot bound.

They were upcanned to MicroKote treated pots Xmas day in my custom Soil – sand, vermiculite, BM7 soil less potting soil, 1 cu. ft. Landscaper’s Pride pine bark mulch/fines, blood meal, bone meal, alfalfa nuggets, gypsum. The slop is not a rebound from eating too much spicy Mexican food, it’s a slop made from soaking a qt. of small horse nuggets aka alfalfa, in a bucket of water and using it as a soil moisturizer/nutrition. Alfalfa contains triacontanol, a growth hormone. Alfalfa Tea - The Garden Academy

As I finished the upcanning I worked in about a TB of Osmocote Indoor-Outdoor Plus into the top inch of soil for the 2 - 3 gallon pots. I bury them as deep as possible, sometimes removing the cotyledons and burying them up to the first true leaves. This will increase root mass, and when it comes to growing plants it’s all about the roots, PERIOD. I love this stuff, buy it by the 50# bags, use it on everything - field grown seedlings, greenhouse tropical fruit trees (citrus, avocado, mango, annona, pineapple), herbs, maters, etc. 15-9-12 with micros. Osmocote 5 - Next Gen Controlled Release Fertilizer Technology | ICL Blog

Maui Wowie started later. 2 seedlings are Juliet grape tomato.

Plants almost doubled over night. I’ve got 2 stretchy ones in veg. Will experiment with a Paclobutrazol app, probably go about 4 ppm as a soil drench.

Potted them up in a MicroKote treated pots and in a couple of days they’ve almost doubled in size with a fine color. The algae was pretty thick. Moral of the story - there is a good reason why nurseries use black pots as their standard.

Original experiment with Griffin’s Spin–Out, spray cans. How can I use Spin-Out for chemical root pruning?

Only painted an X this time, not the entire surface.

Today:

The middle one, Deep Chunk, did not grow for a couple of weeks. it’s now snapped out of it.

Maui Wowie seeds germed about 2-3 weeks after the others - left and right, back row. They were potted up “wearing” juvenile single leaves and since the 25th have grown this much.

Grow hard,
Uncle Ben

26 Likes

Some interesting stuff your using there. I am interesting in hearing more about the root pruning. Are you using post digested alfalfa? AKA poop? :blush:
You are growing some very interesting genetics too.

Would fabric pots be better?

@OldUncleBen I love that you’re starting a log, can’t wait to follow along. I’ve always enjoyed your approach to soil growing, very much a nursery or orcharding approach with the hard pots, copper root pruning paints, your sand/vermiculite/pine fines medium, and the love of Osmocote. I see a lot of similar techniques used around me at the tree farms and nurseries that are very common in my area. Nobody cooks it up quite like Uncle Ben, I’ll be reading along as things get going!

5 Likes

This sounds very interesting.

:green_heart: :seedling:

1 Like

Horse nuggets like I said. Dump a bunch in a bucket, add plenty of water, let sit over night and add.

5 Likes

Thanks. If only folks would shy away from cannabis forum ways and subscribe to norms used by conventional nurseries and field ops, they wouldn’t have any problems. Too many, mostly noobs are bound to fuck up this weed any which way but Sunday by following The Herd.

Less is more,
Uncle Ben

7 Likes

They have their place and I use them. They are not better regarding root tip termination which is your goal - create a super fibrous, efficient root system with no root spinout. They also require frequent watering.

4 Likes

I drenched the 3 Afghaan 90 X Master Kush 90 with 4 ppm of Paclo. Paclo Pro brand. 3/4 tsp/gallon of rainwater. If you need to shorten those long internodes on your sativas, this should do it. Will be an interesting experiment. Will probably hit some future Malawi X Panama with paclo.

3 Likes

They really do which works like a swamp cooler needed in my environment. I try to control runoff by prepping recycled dry amended coco some perlite with yucca and drippers.
But I love the new science u introduced thanks! I had no idea copper does this to root tips.
Does this increase auxin or ethylene levels? I have much to research.
can you try this with fabric pots with wrap?
This would be great for my limited breeding pots of solo cups.
So you paint it on but not all the way around the inside so the roots stil grow a bit more?
Ima try to find this online.
Thanks!

2 Likes

But I love the new science u introduced thanks! I had no idea copper does this to root tips.
Does this increase auxin or ethylene levels? I have much to research.
can you try this with fabric pots with wrap?

No change in hormones, works fine with fabric pots but that’s overkill.

This would be great for my limited breeding pots of solo cups.
So you paint it on but not all the way around the inside so the roots stil grow a bit more?
Ima try to find this online.
Thanks!

I’ve always done a full paint, see the Griffin’s Spin-out link please. X’s are effective.

Been used in the forestry biz for decades. I’ve grown all kinds of materials in copper treated conventional pots - maters, shade trees such as oaks, cannabis.

6 Likes

Yes I read it nice results great job.
I got Cu Oxide 2oz for like under 12 shipped.
I’m gonna use 25g/L paint to start and test with root bound solos.
The only other powder they sold that wasn’t water soluble or from bulgaria was the carbonate form.
I read the sulfate works too but it’s water soluble so it may leak cu and sulfur?
From anecdotal forums and studies i think the hydroxide is least soluble, oxide is the strongest but not as stable as hydroxide?, carbonate is weaker and more soluble.

2 Likes

Yup, invented by Canadian forestry researcher A.N. Burdett in 1978 for pine seedling propagation!
@GYOweed

EP0791.03.pdf (290.9 KB)

3 Likes

Actually, nevermind, I followed the citations and it was James J. Nussbaum at UC Davis who first published on using copper paint for chemical root pruning more than ten years earlier in 1969 from experiments in 1968.

ca2310p16-174169.pdf (605.2 KB)

3 Likes

They really kick in after each watering now that they’re upcanned. There’s probably a lot of root production going on, and you know what Unkie Bennie says, yes? - “IT’S ALL ABOUT THE ROOTS”.

Growth is slow compared to previous indoor grows because of the very low temps beginning with the greenhouse styro cups days. Temps are very cool versus my normal fight with heat - 90F -97F during the day years ago.

Dec. 29

Today, wide angle thru the light bars:

Light is at 100% about 20" above some light tops, 18/6. Lots of nutrition going on from the Osmocote, meals, alfalfa. I added a 1 tsp/gallon of potassium sulfate to my rainwater drench the other day, watering until there is a good run off.

I was gifted 2 original Cannacopia Lapiz Mtn. indica, 1 germed. It’s a beautiful plant with a fine indica profile.

6 Likes

My 3 plants that are a little disappointing are the Afgaan 90 X Master Kush 1990 hybrid from Kwik Seeds. They are slow growing, a bit lanky too. So…I appled a 4 ppm drench of a PGR called “paclo” to those pots to induce short internodes.

This PGR is used in Indian mango orchards and Australian avocado orchards. I apply it to my greenhouse grown avocado trees. It is also reported to increase flower and fruit production and size.

5 Likes

Paclo is interesting stuff, I know that overuse and indiscriminate choices in PGRs have plagued the commercial cannabis market for a long time now, but I am curious about their use in a responsible and restrained way that’s not just dumping PGRs of every type, including the most dangerous, onto plants. I use freeze dried aloe and young coconut water powders as natural PGRs, so I’m curious to see someone using one of the commercial ones. It’s sort of a taboo subject on the forums, I think, but a valuable discussion to have.

4 Likes

Such chemicals are taboo because those saying they should be taboo don’t have a clue about them and/or they come from greedy cannabis folks. The naysayers are experts with no experience.

Years ago I read posts about some of the cannabis specific companies adding PGR’s into some of their products.

Been using Paclo a little in certain growing situations for many years. You really have to watch the dosage or it can backfire on you. I don’t like messing with mama’s Ho Moans, if you know what I mean. She doesn’t like it.

5 Likes

That’s the attitude I think makes sense, PGRs are so powerful that we should have respect for not pushing the plant around too much to make it what we want instead of what it wants to be.

2 Likes

Oh yeah for sure:

"Cannabis Challenges
Paclobutrazol (aka PBZ or Paclo), which has no permitted food use and a detection threshold of 0.01 ppm, is regularly detected in cannabis samples. Its use is only allowed on ornamental crops. Paclo is a plant growth regulator (PGR) that inhibits gibberellin plant growth hormone biosynthesis, thereby reducing internode growth to give stouter stems, and increasing root growth.

In cannabis, Paclo is added to a variety of nutrient products (e.g., PhosphoLoad, Gravity, Bushmaster, Flower Dragon, etc.) and is used by indoor sinsemilla growers to produce short and highly branched, dark green plants with extensive root systems and rock-hard buds."

Bushmaster is the one I’ve come across most commonly in grow shops.

4 Likes