Are bottled microbe products a ripoff? How can you be sure without a microscope?

[shag]

I don’t trust these bottled nute companies one bit.
Why?
Have a look…
https://data.oregon.gov/Natural-Resources/Fertilizer-Program-Stop-Sales/svge-u3j9

Southern Ag’s Triple Action Neem Oil . came back positive for Malathion, a non-organic pesticide as well as Chlorpyrifos and Permethrin and several other non-organic active ingredients.

Azatin O Biological Insecticide AKA neem
ODA’s actions come following an investigation of the product and laboratory analysis that found the presence of the pesticide active ingredients bifenthrin, fenpropathrin, and lambda-cyhalothrin, none of which are listed on the product label.

Nice right?
What’s in your smoke stream?

LG062619.pdf

To test similar products, ODA visited local stores and purchased six (6) different neem oil products from six (6) different registrants or manufacturers. All products were labeled for organic use. Samples were submitted and results showed all six (6) products tested positive for several active ingredients not listed on the labels including: Malathion, Chlorpyrifos and Permethrin, and several other non-organic active ingredients.

Based upon these results, ODA has issued an additional six (6) statewide SSURO’s for the following registered products:

• Bonide, Neem Oil, EPA #70051-2-4, Lot #18082202
• Schultz Company, Garden Safe brand, Neem Oil Extract, EPA #70051-2-39609,
  Lot #U071818 L 002817
• Woodstream Corporation, Safer Brand, Neem Oil, EPA #70051-2-42697,
  Lot #LBL5182B 0617
• Lawn and Garden Products Inc, Monterey, 70% Neem Oil, EPA #70051-2-54705,
  Lot # 1800241958 MLN #70892947
• Certis, Trilogy, EPA #70051-2, Lot #71133547
• Bayer Advanced, Natria Neem Oil, EPA #70051-2-72155, Lot #NP65FX7081

Agro Gold WS has been distributed within a co-packed box that also contains the product Weed Slayer, an herbicide also listed as approved for use in organic agriculture.

“The product Agro Gold WS has been found to contain both diquat and glyphosate.

[Nuskool89]

Wait. You guys aren’t used the 137 bottle advanced nutrients full line? It’s got what plants crave. Says it right on the bottle

Really though the only bottled products I use at this point are Pure Crop 1, Botanicare’s Fulvex, and Dyna gro Protekt. Everything else we do homemade w/teas for the most part

[shag]

@Nuskool89

Protekt

Did you see I posted a DIY protekt formula?

[imstinky]

That’s scary! I try and use nothing to spray because of issues like this.

But also whats approved now, we could find out later that it has some cancer causing ingredient. Or we could be using products incorrectly. Like it could be listed as ok, but once you ignite the product it gives off poisonous Chem reaction that isn’t approved.

[Nuskool89]

You know what, I have not. But closer to the end of this 5 gallon monster I will have to give it a go. I do like the consistency of the few items I do buy premade but I’ll try a test run for the hell of it. Thank you for the suggestion

[shag]

@Nuskool89
Here is the link…

Do plants need silicon? How is it used by plants? Can we make our own silicon products at home?

A big thanks to my old buddy Only Onamental for help with all the technical stuff. [image] [image] SILICON NUTRITION IN PLANTS The element silicon (Si) comprises one of the most abundant minerals on earth. Sand, quartz, and silica are all synonyms for the same basic mineral. Until the last decade, very little attention was paid to silicon in regard to plant nutrition, except for certain algae (diatoms) and the common scouring rushes (horsetails), which conta…

[syzygy]

Might be worth including the podcast that Tad did with Oregon Dept of Ag where they discuss the findings you’re referencing. Interesting interview(s). Seems that it’s not available on his site at the moment but it’s still up on YT, I Tunes and Stitcher.

As you know, rules and regulations are an important aspect of cannabis cultivation. In addition, it’s important to know that the products we purchase to use in our garden are safe and providing the nutrients or microbes that are listed on the labels. My interview this week is with Sunny Summers and Matt Haynes with the Oregon Dept of Agriculture. The Oregon Department of Agriculture have been leaders at the State level in regards to product testing and information sharing for consumers. I was very excited that they accepted my request to come on the podcast to talk about some of their findings and to help growers better understand pesticide and fertilizer product labels and some of the challenges around policy enforcement.

Sunny Summers is the Cannabis Policy Coordinator for the Department of Agriculture. Sunny has a degree from Oregon State University in Bioresource Research. She worked in pesticide regulation and enforcement for 12 years before making the leap to cannabis. When not scratching her head over cannabis regulations, she can be found napping in the woods, kayaking on the Willamette, or chasing one of the Bruiser Bros. around the Sassy Sunflower Haus
.
Matt Haynes is a graduate of California State Polytechnic University, Pomona with a BS in agronomy. He has been with the Oregon Department of Agriculture for 20 years and the Department’s Fertilizer Program for 18 years. Matt reviews product labels for registration, conducts marketplace inspections, collects and compiles tonnage data, and reviews laboratory sample data. Prior to joining the Department, Matt was with the J. M. Smucker Company and Mission Resource Conservation District.

https://www.kisorganics.com/pages/cannabis-cultivation-and-science-podcast-episode-42

Youtube : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ckqgjTbWDps

Apple Podcast : https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/episode-42-fertilizer-and-pesticides-in-cannabis/id1258365194?i=1000428257037

Stitcher : https://www.stitcher.com/show/cannabis-cultivation-and-science-podcast/episode/episode-42-fertilizer-and-pesticides-in-cannabis-with-the-oregon-department-of-agriculture-58327900

[yardgrazer]

Yikes!

I can’t seem to find the 6 listed Neem oils on that database of SSUROs?

[shag]

@syzygy

the podcast that Tad did with Oregon Dept of Ag

Nice!
Thank you so much for your contribution.
This is a must listen, in my opinion everyone need to hear this.

Episode 42: Fertilizer and Pesticides in Cannabis with the Oregon Department of Agriculture

[shag]

@Nuskool89

Botanicare’s Fulvex

I hear BioAg is the only real bottled fulvic acid product on the market.
I could be wrong here and I don’t mean to knock your product, I do not know anything about it.

I researched it years ago, not sure why, I think test results proved everything else to be inferior.

I don’t use fulvic acid any more, I think it is good stuff, helps with carbon if you dont use co2, but worth the money, I am not sure, I grow fine without it, Using peat is a good way to get fulvic acid into your plants for free.

I do think it would still help my grow, if I started using it again I think I would use powder.
I hate to pay to ship water.

Dr. Faust of Bioag explain: What is humic acid? Why Bioag Ful-Humix is a superior product?

Holiday Sale - BioAg Ful-Power 1 Quart - Ful Power Humic Acid

[Mithridate]

Im curious about the shelf life of these products.

Maybe the bottles come out of the packing plant with %/ppm matching whats on the bottle but populations start declining within a week.

By the time its in your hand its dead weight.

[Rogue]

Ofcourse they’re a rip off, all wilderness everywhere proves it’s a joke.

[Dirt_Wizard]

I switched from Ful-Power to Mr Fulvic, which is AGT-50 from Agtonik in Kalamazoo MI but packed for retail instead of commercial sale.

AGT-50 Fulvic Mineral Complex (Discount for Future4200 members!)

Homepage

Typical-Analysis-2022.pdf (256.6 KB)

[Heritagefarms]

This is a great product , especially for mother plants you can see stuff growing threw the soil within days of adding it.

[Pier_Rat]

I use real growers Recharge. It’s suppose to have microbes, kelp,humic and fulvic acids. Even if it doesn’t have all the microbes they say it tests for, i buy it to support their small business. They also run the podcast dude grows show. gives me countless hours of growing content and a good laugh while I’m at work.

@Nuskool89 I like using purecrop1 in rotation with dr.zymes. I started making my own and this DIY recipe is a spot on replica that can save you alot of $$$$.
80% glycerin
15% corn/soybean oil
2% insecticidal soap (SLS, Dr. Bronner’s)
2% aromatic oil (vanillin, rosemary, thyme)
0.5% guar/xanthan gum
0.5% citric acid

Heat everything through and stir to incorporate. Add aromatic oils while cooling and incorporate.

Use @ 1-2 oz/gallon. Spray until beading on leaves.
(Courtesy of open salts wiki)

[crownpoodle]

@shag I’ve been using Xtreme Gardening Mykos. Got some as a sample and they “seemed” to work, but this was outdoors in 20s and 30s. In a tent in 3 gallon pots? I keep thinking of the freeze dried “sea monkeys” from comic books and the fair. Doubt I will buy more dry microbes. Might try and get a free sample of bottled ones.

[Grapefruitroop]

I agree that most of bottled beneficials are a ripoff IME…
Yes that Oregon ag report is very interesting and proves the fact.
What we really missing in this industry its the ability to run comparative tests, none does, none has the time…so we rely on marketing that relies on old academic researches on other plants, experiments runnd in a lab on lettuce and basil…
There are so many wrong things in those products…
First the fact that in pure isolated form, some bacterias are anthagonist of spores ,they cant just be put togheter in a container and hope they will all germinate and proliferate togheter… Then there is the expiration date problem, then the way they got stored…and of course the price…
Mycorrizae cant germinate in Phosphorus packed soils like the one we use for cannabis…
Plus most of those products contain always some sort of nitrogen to make your plant green up and make you think that is working like a miracle…
Areated Compost Teas from EWC and Labs are the best way to get your soil or medium thriving with beneficials
Lately i started use Mammoth P, and yes i noticed my buds getting more frosty…i kept using it but i swear that it must be the triancontanol present in it and not really the Pseudomonas…anyway, also here i cant speak “scientifically” never rund a comparative test but since i noticed the improvement i kept using it…

[LivingBlackSoil]

Been using Recharge for awhile now and my plants seem to perk up every time. I introduced a product called Mega Phos this run and I think it might be the reason the flowers look dipped in dust.

Old Soul

Goji #1

Maybe I’ma fool but I will continue using both of these products. Can’t see running out of either before 2025. Not sure how long Mega Phos will be around so might get a larger package

[Dirt_Wizard]

https://u.osu.edu/vegprolab/microbe-containing-products-advertised-to-enhance-crop-growth/

Slightly older pdf but it’s an easy read, the database is current;
microbial-products-supplement-oct-23-18-137maf8.pdf (190.1 KB)

[EugeneDebs420]

Sometimes, there’s a lot of successful snake oil salesmen in the industry, mostly because it’s not hard to grow impressive weed so you catch a newb say use this stuff with these other tried and tested products and they will and they’ll grow some fire and attribute it to whatever nonsense additives they used.