There would have to be a dutch style coffee shop for every pub.
The cops would as part of their duties have to carry a big bag of weed so they could respond in a useful manner to any hostile situation or dry up. The call out response to such emergencies should at least match your nearest pizza delivery service.
If anyone’s grow gets ripped off they should have the right to summon an armed response team within 10mins.
No credit sales should be allowed so nobody can get in debt over weed and no taxation should be levied unless the weed is made into a product by the pharma industry. This should help encourage medicinal users to support their friendly local growers instead
Not now but the times are changing my brother! Have faith and hope. With a mind set like that, of course nothing would work. Look at this overgrow community. I had the same mind set that you do just 6 months ago. After reading and getting to know a few people on here, it has changed my own aspect of the fact that humanity is doomed. There will always be a great fire of turmoil, negativity and doubt but out of the ashes will rise those few great people out there like @99PerCent@ReikoX@MadScientist@Viva_Mexico@Pedro_Bann@Eddie.saw@Tinytuttle and so many more i didn’t name( sorry to those others. . .you know who you are) that care more about the plant than the money to be made on it! That’s my opinion and Im sticking to it! Remember have FAITH my brother
I wish the ratio of people that thought that way outnumbered the capitalists, but sad to say we live in a capitalistic society and, well, you know how that goes.
Seeds cost money, dirt costs money, electricity costs money, nutrients cost money, labor…well I guess that’s up to the individual. As the Wu Tang Clan would say…”Cash Rules Everything Around Me”.
Don’t get me wrong, I’m not the type to charge a fee for hooking anybody up. That’s just not in my character. But there comes a point when you either say “no” or end up giving too much. But, I digress…
So since we are further away from “everybody that can grow growing and supplying everyone that can’t grow” than we are from burgeoning legalization, what do we do in the meantime? Pretend the illegal state you are living in is legalizing recreational cannabis in 12 months. How should it go down? Growers gotta grow, retailers gotta retail, and consumers gotta consume.
And I do believe that is exactly the mind set that got us into this capitalistic society were if your not in debt your not doing it right. Think about it pot has only been “illegal” for less than 100 years. How did cannabis genetics get spread around back then? The barter system and the same system that overgrow is all about . . . The capitalists that run this world have already brain washed you into thinking you have to “pay” for everything. IT’S NOT TRUE! Soil “grows” outside sunlight is free and water can be acquired with little to no monetary value. You don’t need to buy nutes or bad ass lighting or any of that extra “capitalist brain washing” products that you just HAVE to have. But you do as long as it’s illegal right?? Hell no i use to guerilla grow for years before i got my “legality” it only cost me hard work and perseverance (and a brain in my head not to ever tell anyone)
In my opinion it should be growers WANT to grow, retailers WANT to retail, and consumers WANT to OVERconsume
The market is becoming saturated in Cali. Driving the price down for the growers and driving the price up in tax to consumers. I have no problem with them taxing the shit out of recreational users but the tax on my meds is ridiculous. I don’t pay almost 20% tax on my other prescriptions. Weed growing as a career won’t be nearly as lucrative as it was with just Medical sales in recreational states. That I can guarantee. One good thing that should come of it though is that our prisons will be less crowded and the accessibility to legal weed should cut down on Cartel activity.
I like the way you think. True, things only cost money because that’s what someone a loooooong time ago thought was a good idea, for whatever their reasons were good or bad. But, here we are living in the world we live in with the capitalist system in place that isn’t going anywhere anytime soon. As much as I would like it to change, it’s not going to for a long time…wayyy after legalization.
If you can come up with a way to get all the Cannabis users in New York City at least a one square foot outdoor plot each so they can grow their own for free, that would be amazing. But I don’t think it’s very likely at all to happen. Recreational cannabis use being legalized IS happening though, and if the rules and regulations aren’t laid out properly then the bad guys stand to be the ones in control and I don’t think any of us want that. So…any ideas?
I wonder if there is any way to avoid market saturation? I like the idea of cannabis tax money paying for critically underfunded things, but not if it’s going to make life difficult for the growers. Maybe if only growers could operate the retail locations? Or something like that, I don’t know.
That is probably the best thing that would come from legalization. Interesting though…I was reading the California Prop 84 and there are some pretty harsh punishments for anyone caught selling without a license. Something like a $6k fine and 6 months in jail or something. Hmmmmm.
I was referring to recreational growers. I’m pretty sure that they can grow 8 plants of their own. If people are selling without a license they are pretty stupid. Not sure what sort of customer base they could really have these days even though there is a high tax for recreational. Seeing that an average consumer can walk in any dispensary and choose from hundreds of strains and edibles, why would they want to be limited by a black market selection and possible dangerous pesticides? My point is less people in prison for growing their own and/or possession
The dispensary that I go to has their own strains they sell, so I think they are doing both.
Turn Madison square garden into Madison skunk garden. . . I like that idea but it won’t work. But with the legalization of marijuana and a law put in forth that only people so far outside of cities can grow. . . That would help lower the populations of big city by people wanting to move out of cities instead of into stop deforestation and even help lower crime. The capitalist will lose massive amounts of revenue and will force them to lower and keep the prices of pot low for those who want to stay in the cities and buy instead of grow. . . You will always have people who can’t or don’t want to grow and the option of buying it is easier for them but if the rest of us step up we can change it for us and them.
Boy did I have an eye opening experience at a dispensary in Cali today! My boyfriend and I went to our usual dispensary that we have been frequenting for years when only Med MJ was legal here. This used to be the biggest and best one around. They had a minimum of 40 strains available, edibles, tinctures, cbd oil etc… You name they had it. More importantly the prices were amazing! Tons of deals, lots of freebies. My man and I always went together because we would get big price breaks by buying in larger quantities then splitting our loot. Since January this year when they started to sell to recreational users, things rapidly started to change. First, the tax! Whew! As I mentioned in an earlier post, they started taxing the medical users about 18% or so and Rec users close to 30%. I got more and more irritated each time I went in, which leads me to today… 7 months later. Apparently, my dispensary is becoming 100% legit and legal. Today they had 6 strains available ONLY from only 2 different growers. I’m guessing only state regulated growers and they only had 1/8th available for 55 to 60 bucks each, before tax. The place was usually packed. This time there was literally zero customers in the shop. Professional Cali growers are going to be fucked. I see profit margins for distributors going way down. We ended up going across the street to an obviously non-compliant dispensary across the street and ended up with 2 free grams of our choice and another half ounce for 100 bucks with no tax. Until they bust places like this and shut them all down, people better start growing their own weed or start buying off the black market again as it’s way cheaper. I’m kind of pissed off at myself for not thoroughly reading through our Recreational Proposition before I said yes to this bullshit. We should have stuck with just medical marijuana.
Not sure what the prices are over there, but it’s got to be better than the black market, right? I’d be pretty pissed if the black market is producing better quality and variety at a lower price. 30% is kinda steep for recreational use tax. So if you buy an ounce at $200 you end up paying $260 with tax included…an ounce on the Texas black market 10 years ago was anywhere between $250-350. I like the idea of cannabis tax dollars being used to fund education, health care, and substance abuse programs and I would prefer going to a dispensary as opposed to using the black market, but legal cannabis should definitely be cheaper than that.
Wow…that is ridiculous. Black market is winning in that situation. I’m not so much worried about a dispensary not carrying every strain known to mankind or having all the new Instagram fad crosses, but c’mon why are there only 6 strains? And why is it significantly more expensive than the black market?
Things can change. Some of the states pioneering cannabis legalization are going to get some things wrong, and some will get some things right. We should all be paying attention so that when it comes time for legalization (or a change to the cannabis laws) in your state you can provide an informed opinion on the matter. I’m worried how some states might implement even more fucked up laws and regulations than what’s going on in the currently legal states.
When I read through Cali’s Prop 46 yesterday it said that the state starts with a tax on growers at $9.60 per ounce. Plus the license fees. Obviously there is the first mark-up as it’s passed to the consumer… Then mark-up by the dispensary plus whatever state license fees they incur… Then los angeles county sales tax @ 9.5%, then some other MT tax the state added on top of state taxes, then if Recreational user additional tax. The intention was that it was going to put the Mexican cartel out of business. Not at these prices! It’s gonna give them more business.
The only benefit to medical users now that I can see is we can grow 6 more plants. 6 flowering, 6 vegging. Recreational users can have only 6 total
Regarding taxes, yes they can be a bit ridiculous, but what is worse is that I think what happened with lottery revenues will happen with cannabis revenues. The taxes will be used to replace money that they cut from services and propgrams so there will be no change, except us paying up the ass. Hope it doesn’t happen, but history says it might:
For what it’s worth I am glad CA passed prop 64, but I knew there would be consequences, like always.
That’s the kind of thing I’m worried about happening with the states that will be legalized in the near future. Greedy political types and shady businessmen can really do some harm once they figure out, from the states that legalized before them, how best to screw everybody over but themselves and line their pockets with cannabis revenue.
The average smoker is only worried about buying, growing, and consumption of cannabis being legal and not thinking about the best way to go about legalization. As long as they get to smoke without breaking the law they are happy and will (if they actually vote) vote for any one and any thing that will make that happen.
So what’s the answer? I don’t know. I think taxes are a good thing if done properly. Is there any good reason to NOT tax cannabis sales?
It just comes with the territory. Do you want legal recreational cannabis? Yes. Then you’re gonna get taxed big time and it’s up to bureaucrats to figure out where that money goes. Want only medical? You’re still going to get taxed (but it’s less) and people can get into some deep trouble for smoking or growing their own without a rec. There’s benefits and consequences to both. C’est la vie…
There’s actually some states that only tax the producers of medical marijuana and prohibit passing the cost onto the buyer, but let’s be honest: Do you really think these growers are going to accept losing some of their “non-profit” margin lol. I don’t know of any organization or business that doesn’t pass higher production costs onto the consumer without government subsidies (which medical marijuana is not getting). I’ve always questioned the “non-profit” nature of medical marijuana:
Take this all with a grain of salt since there really is no correct answer to this shitshow. Damn, I’m depressed now…I’m going to go look at my legal outdoor cannabis plant for a bit
Here’s a quick brainstorm. Consider these two different examples:
Weed is sold pre-packaged at corner stores and Kwik-E-Marts in the same way that 40’s of Old English and cases of Natty Lite are currently sold. Show your ID, present your method of payment…it’s that easy to purchase a couple grams or some joints or vape pens or however Phillip Morris decides to package the cannabis they are selling.
San Diego has a bunch of breweries and a pretty damn decent local craft brew scene. Now that weed has been legal for a couple of decades the cannabis equivalent of breweries (what’s a good name for them? Let’s call them weederies for now) have popped up and the cannabis scene has changed from “medical” patients and sketchy overpriced and overtaxed dispensaries to a hip craft cannabis scene with weederies being proud of their unique and high quality strains. Sure, some good buds with very specific terpenes cured for a year or some rare Dr. Grinspoon type buds are going to cost you…but it’s not just about the buds, it’s about enjoying those buds in a nice weedery with your friends and having a good time and blowing a bunch of money on the awesome food truck outside.
Is example 1 a bad thing? I mean, Phillip Morris and RJ Reynolds are some pretty shitty corporations…but weed is legal and widely available.
Is example 2 a possibility? If so, what’s the path to getting there like? What obstacles would be in the way and how would you overcome them?
Now, this might sound crazy, but I’m thinking that if example 1 were a reality then it would be more feasible for example 2 to become a reality. Taxes are too high? Guess who hates high taxes and has lots of experience lobbying against them. Yup, those evil bastards with Big Tobacco. Same thing goes with going from dispensaries that you can’t smoke in to full fledged weed bars like the coffee shops in Holland. If Big Tobacco wants to sell weed I’m sure they’ll figure out a way to make it as available and normalized as possible.
On the flip side, those evil bastards can’t be trusted.
As of now, I’m not sure how “weederies” are going to handle all the proper packaging requirements to have an open bar so to speak. Prop 64 is allowing for smoking licenses in conjunction with dispensaries and/or smoking facilities as long as no tobacco and/or alcohol is sold on premises, but who the hell knows what all this entails in Cali as Prop 64 says labeling must have THC, CBD, and type if any pesticides are used along with weight. Maybe a menu is enough to suffice. Either way, with the 9+ dollars an ounce to the grower, I still see no way to drive prices down unless they ease up and reform the laws.
@MisticHaze As for the “educational fund” like the state lotto money may just be going into a general fund. Meaning in the end it can be spent on any damn thing the state wants and not for that specific purpose. I would have to read the fine print and legal mumbo jumbo to really figure this out as what I read was fairly vague on this point.
Someone mentioned growing collectives and Not for Profit orgs… All I can say as an Accountant myself is the benefit of non-profit is to zero out all actual profits by paying it out in salaries and bonuses to the officers of the NP. So like any corporate tax imposed it will ALWAYS be passed to the consumer. Economics 101. Less profit = Less salary (in the case of non-profit) or Less Shareholder Distributions or dividends (Corps)
As a so called officer of a NP. . . that does not apply to all non profit organizations. . . If said non profit does not make any actual profits (example growing food to feed the hungry) how can profits be paid out in anything?
I’m sure their are many if not most that practice what your preaching but not ALL and certainly not my NP lol if so someone’s got some 'splanin to do
That brings in a whole nother element into play: the testing facilities adding more cost. I 100% agree that there should be a strict form of quality control in place so we don’t end up ingesting some harmful shit. Anybody that grows or sells cannabis should not have any connection to the testing facilities other than using them to test the buds and such as that would be a huge conflict of interest. I don’t see a good way to mitigate that cost, but I’m pretty sure someone could come up with something creative.
Exactly why we should all be concerned with the current situation. I’m sure that it has less to do with individual greed from either the grower or the retailer and more to do with the laws and regulations being what they are right now. Good thing is laws can be changed.
