@Northern_Loki Just plain cool tap water no soap or citric or PHing, nothing. I did the three bucket system with lemon and baking soda in the first then warm then cool plain water. But I felt like you do, it changes the way it dries too much for me, it’s less sticky
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I can’t speak to killing spores but I can tell you I’ve made bubble hash out of mildewy weed and I believe the PM became suspended in the water. Either that or it passes through all the bags because it’s so small. The hash was very clean.
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One thing I would be interested in would be the effect of different yeasts on the fermentation process, like in brewing beer. For different types of beer they use different yeast cultures. I’d just be curious as to which ones would produce a better product or produce different reactions to the cannabinoids.
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In my experience conventional brewer’s yeast / wine yeast does not transform the effects of cannabinoids significantly, at least in alcohol fermentation. I really only started noticing transformations in cannabinoid content from using mixed bacteria / mold / yeast starters for cannabis rice wine, specifically rice yeast balls. But, as you said, Saccharomyces cerevisae is just one species of yeast and I would not be surprised if there were other wild yeast species that do something interesting to cannabis given their diversity - would be a very interesting experiment to do some side by side experiments fermenting with isolated strains…or even culturing a wild yeast/bacteria or wild mold/bacteria/yeast starter from fresh cannabis flowers and using that for fermenting cannabis!
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That’s the kinda shit I’m talking about! That would be very interesting to see a side by side. What about the effects of using different vinegar mothers to make some sort of product? Using a local small batch mother incomparison to something mass produced. I know this is a bit different than regular fermentation but idk I just think these processes used in food adapted to cannabis has yet to be fully explored. I love the direction you’re going in though man!
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Saw that and thought of you! The goat stomach. Also noticed the distinction of gold to black and the considerable difference being moisture during the cure to produce a desired ferment.
Interesting note to consider, some of the most saught after items that we ingest are fermented items. That doesn’t necessarily mean that it’s the best to start out with. A fascinating tidbit of the highly saught after Shu Pu-erh.
In July and August, the monsoon reaches its peak. The trees produces high amounts of leaves but the quality is low. Most of the tea cannot dry properly due to the quasi permanent rain. Summer tea is mostly fermented and transformed into Shu Pu-erh. It can also be found in the lower-end raw cakes.
This also corresponds with their most humid time of year.
As it relates to cannabis, I think this would help correlate why weed back in the 60’s and 70’s was reportedly so great, even though the THC percentages were quite modest values. They were fermented by the time they reached the consumer and the microbial volatile organic compounds were adding to the end product, a value added product like the aforementioned fermented tea. I think a lot of the crossover from other crops will apply as it relates to these microbial populations of mVOC’s.
I like the idea of exploring in more academically rigours settings with controlled variables and sterility and such, but there’s something to the diverseness in these wild spaces. The terroir so to speak. I’ve often daydreamed of creating mini microclimates for various cheeses with region of distinction to age. Or yeast doughs from places like San Francisco, on a countertop or refrigerator anywhere on the planet. Approaching from both ways, both traditional and academic, where they meet I think is where quite interesting results will be found.
For that, and applying it to cannabis and cobs of yesteryear, or Thai sticks, the wacky weed, I think recreating everything to every conceptual detail is important. For example, older less modern selected types would do well for this in my opinion. Scraggly thin leaflet sparse inflorescence type stuff.
It gives magic to what’s before fermented not a magical. Just some rambling thoughts. One of my favorite topics lately and really enjoy seeing the activity on the thread, gaining knowledge and perspective. Feeling grateful for everyone’s part in the discussion. It’s all so very enlightening. Much love
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Oh yeah I immediately thought of Pu-Erh tea when we started talking fermenting leaves! What I found interesting in this mention of the goat stomachs is the desirable gentle ammonia smell, and the thing about ruminant stomachs and anaerobic fungi making ammonia to make nitrogen to feed the cycle. Very interesting, considering that we use ammonia as a way to tell if bud is not drying right and then also as a positive tasting olfactory note like in Catpiss strains. I also have questions about the “certain type of soil”
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“ We identified 390 fungal and 629 bacterial OTUs from leaves and both Pu-erhs. Major findings are: 1) fungal diversity drops and bacterial diversity rises due to raw or ripened fermentation, 2) fungal and bacterial community composition changes significantly between fresh leaves and both raw and ripened Pu-erh, 3) aging causes significant changes in the microbial community of raw, but not ripened, Pu-erh, and, 4) ripened and well-aged raw Pu-erh have similar microbial communities that are distinct from those of young, raw Ph-erh tea. Twenty-five toxic metabolites, mainly of fungal origin, were detected, with patulin and asperglaucide dominating and at levels supporting the Chinese custom of discarding the first preparation of Pu-erh and using the wet tea to then brew a pot for consumption.”
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And ok so yeast is present in the air all around us all the time like for instance the white film on fruit is yeast 
so it’s pretty easy to find just gotta know where to look even cannabis as long as the brix level is up any ways I’m driving and had to pull over but further down the rabbit hole we go oh and don’t use pesticides it will kill all the wild microbes and even NPK inhibits growth of most if not all as well
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An excerpt taken from Sensei Tangwena on cob curing and the impact of modulating heat,
“This period of aging/sweating is what creates the different cures.
Less heat more speedy, the more heat the more the resin changes color and the high with it. The hot aging produces a radical change in the high, its hard to describe its more mental, clear and intense.
While the cool age/sweat is similar to the jar cured high, the warm cure brings a mix of both. Its up to your taste, thats why I recommend trying all three cures if you have enough bud and go with the method that suites your taste. Personally I like all three ha ha.”
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Found another cool one from The Smoking of Dagga (Indian Hemp) among the Native Races of South Africa and the Resultant Evils by Bourhill 1913 p.14 as quoted:
Dagga grows wild all over South Africa and in many places is carefully cultivated by the Natives. For smoking purposes they select plants just before they bust into bloom and pick off the small leaves with the flower buds. These parts are put in a damp place for about twelve hours, the they are rolled into a mass, tied round with grass and left for about a week. This causes “caking” and a slight degree of fermentation. Next the dagga is unrolled, thoroughly dried in the sun and after being rubbed fine between the hands is smoked."
What stands out to me is the mention of harvesting before “they burst into bloom” and wonder if they were harvesting prematurely or if it’s simply a mistranslation or something to that effect. I mention this because as the title would suggest there is clear bias in the authors position, so I would be inclined to think there could be other errors of accuracy like the aforementioned as it relates to harvestable material and it’s quality. Much love
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Right. That sounds like they were taking premature popcorn flowers and fermenting them into a low potency/tolerable level that may have been useful for work or physical tasks. The mature buds were probably used for cooking and medicine.
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Very interesting. This means the ferment is likely starting with higher levels of CBGa, CBGVa, etc. from the immature buds, possibly CBDa, CBDVa from the leaves before initiating the sweat ferment and microbial decarboxylation/“isomerization”. Lower resin content even when dried slightly and compressed would also likely have an effect on how the sweat fermentation proceeded. Microbes from grasses would also innoculate the sweat ferment in the same way corn husk / banana leaf do. Wonder how the end result differs. Sun drying makes a lot sense after the sweat ferment stage to kill any pathogenic microbes and halt the fermentation process by reducing microbial populations / moisture content. Every post about these incredible indigenous fermentation techniques gives me more ideas that I could adapt to this year’s outdoor harvest curing process.
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I am currently experimenting with clay/ceramic cones that are normally used to automatically water plants to cure buds.
It works great, I just press the semi dry buds in to the cone put them to dry and they slowly cure.
Sometimes I take the cob out (I use a string I lay into the cone and press with the material) to inspect if there is mold and if I see something out of the ordinary I let the bud cone dry outside of the ceramic until a bit drier and and then put it back in till I think it is enough and then let it dry out completely outside of the cone.
I am still experimenting but it seems a nice and easy way to cure.
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How do you remove the air/seal them?
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I don’t remove the air. I press the buds tightly into the cone and then just leave it like that. I don’t seal them. The opening on top stays exposed to the air.
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Interesting! What sort of temperatures do you have them under? Under the malawi style cobb technique they apparently kick off the process by taking it to 104F’ for ~12-48 hours and then go for ~1-4 weeks at 77-86F’.
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I don’t have a specific temperature I try to maintain, I lay the cones into the sun and the night also in the outside on the windowsill and let them there till they are mostly dry (takes a few weeks).
I also made some inside in the sun or just on the kitchen table at about 25 C. They also were good.
I made a cone with Western Winds and it was really great, very speedy and psychedelic. Different than the normal cured buds.
I want to experiment with brine and spray it on and see what it does to the fermentation process.
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I see, thanks for the feedback! What was the experience of the Western Winds with the traditional jar cure?
Please keep us posted with how the brine and spray evolves for you. I believe there are different tobacco fermenting techniques that involve using small amounts of sugar added in the curing/ferment stage, will haveto check my notes on the exact name but maybe that could yield interesting results ?
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