CFL closet - Round 2

spillz907 · February 13, 2018, 3:21am

Another bagseed run. Thanks to everyone who helped me through my first grow…

Had some germination issues getting started but i finally have 6 solid, rooted plants. Last CFL grow before I invest in a proper LED-based setup: (phillips 23-watt CFL bulbs from home depot- roughly 9 right now- Sunshine #4 soil mix with water-based nutrients added via watering):

Thank you to everyone on OG who helped me through the last grow and who helped me through the germination process this winter… took about a month to get these little guys rooted… what a great community.

(link to first run thread for reference)

ryasco · February 13, 2018, 3:48am

Good luck and get those girls some warmth. Ha! Ha! Maybe a hot cocoa to sip on while they read the books. It will help bring the humidity up.

spillz907 · February 13, 2018, 4:11am

Lol!

It’s been one hell of dry winter up here that’s for sure. Humidity was in the mid teens about a month ago… should make it’s way back up to about 60-ish by mid-March I hope.

To be fair the temp rests at about 70 at the base there (about 74-76 at the top of the plants…always a tough balance with CFL getting the leaves as close as possible without heat damage) … always drops a couple of degree when i open her up… Was wondering if anyone would comment on that!

Was thinking of turning off the intake fan because the air it is blowing in is a solid 10 degrees colder than the closet… I have a 4 inch inline duct fan blowing out at 110 cfm so really, that should be enough for a 3x3x5 closet (basically a grow tent). I’ll try that for a couple of hours and see if the levels go up a tad… During the summer i was having the opposite issue- heat buildup.

CANT WAIT to set up my garage this spring with a couple of LED fixtures… My wife and I own our house and the people we bought it from installed one of these: http://www.vanee.ca/en/residential-air-exchangers/product/27-200h.html

Might see if i can’t weave that baby into the setup as well somehow. Might have gold on my hands there… then again, might be completely useless for cooling a grow room. A friend seems to think i can cool 5000 watts of HID with that thing… I laughed.

ryasco · February 13, 2018, 4:23am

Ha! Ha! They are beautiful! Keep showing them whatever love you have been.

spillz907 · February 13, 2018, 4:34am

Will do … Was wondering if anyone else on here has any experience with CFL growing?
Taking a bit of a different approach this time - less veg time, smaller pots, double the plants.

I look at it this way- Those lights will be on either way, so it’s up to me to photosynthesize as much of that energy as possible as efficiently as possible. I think with CFL, there is going to be a sweet spot that is probably not a 5-foot-tall tree in a 5+ gallon pot but maybe a 2 footer in a 2 - 3 gallon pot, say (not that larger pots are bad but dealing with 3x3’ of space).

CFL can grow very nice stuff … it’s almost like it produces THC at a normal rate but not as much bud/plant matter so you end up with really potent yet small yield. Just a loose theory.

Going to see if smaller plants yield more end product in my 3x3 this time around.

99PerCent · February 13, 2018, 4:53am

Hey bro.

I like it.

Cold is not our friend.

Is there any way to enhance the current lighting and run with it?

99

Mr.Sparkle · February 13, 2018, 5:22am

I have plenty of CFL growing experince, as its what i use to do with all my micro setups, as that was all that was available at the time other than incorporating small wattage HPS’s or MH’s.

Cfl’s work decently but you only have so much distance to work with even in high concentrations. Depending on how packed or dense things are you really only get decent stuff within the top 18" or less, or at least in my past experience.

One of the reasons is your cfl’s are throwing light in every direction and even if you have reflectors it’s not necessarily efficient.

There is an alternative, even though you have talked about getting some specific LED panels/light, have you considered LED Screw in bulbs as a replacement ? If not you should if your on a budget.

There are quite a few growers out there using screw in LEDs for awesome results now a days. There is a hefty thread over on another forum all about them. One user “Terpene” say hes gets good penetration to around 36" in his 2’dx4’hx4’w space using only 10x15w bulbs. Now he does have his plants spaced out more that say myself but we are both pulling around 1gram per watt of light we use.

There are a couple advantages to the screw in leds, first is they are a lot more efficient than cfl’s obviously with a 23w CFL putting out the same light as a 14W led. Next if you grab the right type of bulb you can pop the domes off, and by doing so the led chips that are putting out that light are now focusing all there energy into their typical 120degee beam arch instead of a diffuser shroud sending light out almost 360 degrees. The more light you can directly get to you plant the better so you can easily make a simple light rail or fixture with some light cleats or key-less sockets screwed to some wood and wired out safely.

So just an option to think about, myself i run dismantled versions of screw in led bulbs that are mounted to alternative heatsinks just for height considerations. I use to run cree and bridgelux vero 18’s to good success but some what recently made the full switch over to screw in led based lights. I did so as i don’t need to chase that absolute maximum weight and efficiency for my spaces while i can still pull a gram a watt with the screw in led based lights, and its a heck of alot cheaper to upgrade or change things when the bulbs are $2-3 a pop

spillz907 · February 14, 2018, 1:46am

@99PerCent Hey man!

I’m sure I could- I have this much larger area on our base floor (part of the garage) that I’m going to do some construction on to turn it into a somehwat professional growing-space- Right now that setup is in a stackable washer/dryer closet with questionable HVAC and barely enough room to water the back row of plants… We were planning on buying a stackable and swapping laundry area for grow area…Much more square footage for me that way

It’s been sub-0 and dry here- im lucky to be holding 70 on the floor like that right now. That is why I want a better space- I think anymore heat in there I’d be looking at problems during the summer (not too familiar with LED heat output but 1000 watts of HID would surely burn them up.

The fun thing about this hobby that I’ve noticed right off the bat is how fun the learning process is… Whoknows- maybe I’ll end up using that closet for males and take over the whole house, lol.

Hope all is well with you! Thanks for saying hi

spillz907 · February 14, 2018, 2:02am

Was just looking at your micro-grow thread - that is some inspiring stuff.

I will absolutely look into LEd screw-in options. Thank you.

Money isn’t really an issue with this as the investment will pay itself off either way- my goal is to be 100% self-sufficient so however i can attain that in the most efficient way. High end sells for $400+ an ounce here ($600 retail) so it pays itself off fast.

Last time I was on overgrow doing research (back in the late 90’s), literally everything was metal halide and HPS for flowering. Light tech has come a long way in the past decade that’s for sure- When I’m properly set to do the work, I will look at every available high-end option and probably send you a few questions while I’m at it - you seem to know your way around the lighting world (my god, the surgery you did on that bulb with the bucket-grow)… electrical engineer?

Cheers Mr.Sparkle- I will take that advice to heart no doubt.

Also- i try to place the bulbs in areas where that can hit at least 180 degree of space with some reflection knocking some back around, too. I’ve definitely noticed that the bulbs i have in the focus-lamps are much stronger with the focused lumens and reflection inside the lamphead… heat too… that’s exactly how i burned the top of my cheese plant on the last run, used a lamp to focus straight down on it at the same height as the hanging bulbs and it scorched some sugar tips overnight… that was a quick lesson.you’re right though- my initial idea was to have mounted bulbs with an adjustable (and highly reflective) ceiling but i ended up just hanging extension cords from closet rods due to that being way easier.

spillz907 · February 17, 2018, 12:17am

The plant off to the left ended up being a male - I think I’m going to grow him out and probably cut down when i switch to flower… this is my first male plant ever so I don’t want to mess up and pollinate anything, but i also want to process the plant for butter so i might as well grow it out a little bit more (correct me if I’m wrong, please) to get some more plant material out of it, not like it’s costing anything to keep it in there:

(there is also some lighting off to the right that i missed, lamp hitting some of the lower nodes on that right plant/clones)

Closeup of the sacks: Very early pre-flower (2 confirmed females and this 1 confirmed male)

Smoking today: Bubblegum from my first CFL grow:

Thanks guys

cut a couple branches today to clone back since im down 1 (also- pay no mind to that temp reading, had the closet open for a half an hour today cutting branches to clone… holds about 68 at the bottom, should start warming up a bit soon).

I feel like that’s decent growth for 4 days comparing the first picture with today’s.

99PerCent · February 17, 2018, 12:20am

Are you seeing lots of trichomes on this male plant?

I would have guessed the medicinal benefit would be limited. Interested to know what you find.

99%

spillz907 · February 17, 2018, 2:15am

Well I was thinking the same thing so i read a quick article on it as I was VERY surprised last time i made a batch of butter out of pure trim (didn’t even use the sugar leaves around the buds with trichomes on them), just branches and leaves. A friend had to talk me into even trying it because i said it wouldn’t be strong enough… wrong.

I hit a lb of butter with like 2 - 3 oz of food processed trim (basically powdered) and I felt like I had just taken a handful of muscle relaxers… body was limp after dropping a chunk of butter into some chamomile tea at night… not much of a head-high but very medicinal relaxing effect… Was very surprsing to me that leaves and stems could lead to something that powerful… but 3 oz of powdered trim is quite a lot.
(https://sensiseeds.com/en/blog/males-useless-think/)

No joke this stuff has that effect at least with female foliage so that article makes me hopeful (i like experimenting :))

No trichomes yet on anything, still vegging…Do male plants even form trichomes? I still can’t even identify the other 4 plants as m/f… Proably going to send them into flower soon considering the size of the pots I used this time.

Jellypowered · February 17, 2018, 12:35am

On the screw ins, they are pretty simple to build a fixture,

something like this

works pretty well Ignore the crappy wiring I am no longer using this (right now) lol.

spillz907 · February 17, 2018, 12:48am

Man that would make my life easier, ha. Do you adjust the height or does LED put out crazy amounts of lumens like HID? Forgive my ignorance, I just haven;t done the research yet.

Jellypowered · February 17, 2018, 1:03am

Most led you want to keep 12-18" away from the tops.

When you do get into the screw ins, you don’t want dimmable ones. They have more circuitry than the non-dimmable and thus generate more heat and are less efficient.

Mr.Sparkle · February 17, 2018, 1:29am

*generate the same or less heat.

Also the non dimmables are cheaper “big point here”.

The dimmable bulbs are the same or lower in heat due to being able to dim them, they aren’t like old resistive dimming. Led’s typically work one of two ways, one is PWM control which actually cuts the on time of the led. Effectively its flash the led on and off really rapidly but reducing overall time the led is on. Lowers power consumption and heat due to duty cycle.
The other is through modulating the drive current. The lower the drive current is for a led which is still operating the more efficient it is.

But if all the way cranked up or at 100% they generate the same amount of heat.

spillz907 · February 17, 2018, 2:08am

Is there any benefit to spending money on say a SpectrumKing grow light (https://spectrumkingled.com/collections/grow-lights/products/sk600)?

I mean i use $7 propane torch to do any sort of oil dabbing(as opposed to a $75 fancy butane torch) so when it comes to pretty much anything in life, it’s all about efficiency with me- if i can cut corners without losing anything, I will… but I don’t like the idea of cutting any corners that would lead to even a slightly less quality end result (I know this CFL grow is a corner-cut in and of itself but it was necessary due to time restraints).

I know we’re talking major price differences with screw in generic bulbs vs. a fancy SK600 but if I’m not mistaken, full spectrum LED screw-ins are at home depot for cheap… Why would someone spend $1,200 on something like that light above when there are exponentially cheaper options out there? There has to be something I am missing here… i mean damn you don’t even need a ballast for that screw-in setup.

Feel free to tell me to google it- I know nothing about LED tech- have not taken the plunge to research it yet.

Thank you!!

Mr.Sparkle · February 17, 2018, 4:47am

This is just my opinion so take it with a grain of salt and obviously do your own research

First you have a lot of cheaper options compared to that $1300 SK that neither lists what type of chips they are using other than “cree” or in what ratios, if you claim it you better be able to back it up. Cheaper options can easily be built from scratch or bought as basic diy kits from places like solstrips or cobshop and the likes.

Why would one buy said light though, either they have cash to burn, or were suckered in, i’m not saying they probably don’t work well but here is something to consider design wise.

Single point light sources vs multiple sources.

Single point sources have only a couple of advantages, less units to hook up and you can grow at greater distances away from your light due to the intensity of said light but with stipulation i’ll get into. Disadvantages though are a more condensed heat area, if it breaks your screwed, can’t grow as close compared to a less bright source, light intensity will reduce the further away from center you are, and some things ill list below.

Multipoint, if you have enough units your light output will be the same given the same area, but coming from multiple points your plants will be more evenly lit and hit from multiple angles where as with a single source some areas will get shaded out and you have to relay on straight penetration to reach those. If a single unit fails you can still continue on. Wider flexibility in grow area dimensions as you can place the lights to fill your space how ever you want. Being spread out also reduces concentration of heat and intensity so you can get the plants closer to the lights which is beneficial in limited height situations.

Now why wouldn’t a person just run a lot of screw ins instead of a big light ? Need to consider picking the right tool for the job, and what may be easier.

First have to consider the area you want to light up “even if you haven’t built it yet” or more specifically how much yield are you looking to get over what span of time, as the really more dictates what one needs. But is hooking up say 6 lights is better than hooking up 50, but depends on the need.

Also if high quality components are used they will be more efficient than screw ins as ones built for cost and one for efficiency what are the end costs, and does an efficiency reduction really hinders you ?

Not to make this too long and prevent me going off on tangents i’ll leave this post as is and we can discuss further in subsequent posts.

spillz907 · February 19, 2018, 2:43am

Great info- I had written in one of my CFL grow-posts that I probably will always use CFL (or some sort of screw-in) as supplemental lighting for “multipoint”, as you say. A lot to think about for sure- can’t wait to get started.

Thank you for writing that response.

spillz907 · March 14, 2018, 4:31pm

25 days later- about 1.5 months into veg still 24 hours… giving the little clonies time to grow a few nodes and then flower time. I still have two unidentified plants if you can believe that…the two on the rack in the middle have not shown any sex yet. Yay temps are hitting 78 and 60% humidity now (ignore that 35% reading lol).

Shot of above the lighting- sending that heat into the “upper decks” then back into the hall to heat the hallway (love reusing stuff) ha. It actually works really well and oxygenates the area…feel like im walking outside when i go down the stairs, lol.

This is how it looks ‘closed up’ I have a blackout curtain right inside the door for the inner wall and have that lower fan as the intake. It’s a closet that was set up for a stackable washer/dryer so i have an HVAC 4 inch duct fan blowing out the backyard,… Just not strong enough for passive intake. My next setup is going to be a lot bigger but this is why I went with CFL these first two runs.

VERY ROUGHED IN - my wife made me swear to not leave any permanent marks (no nails, screws, etc) so i have wire ties and gravity doing all the work with the lights hanging from closet rods (and all the damned duct tape).

Building a proper setup on my base floor this summer.