Good question… I’m not really sure, since I’ve gradually expanded what “full” meant. 
I started about 6-7 years ago and haven’t stopped for more than a few months; I stopped to expand the grow area to about triple the size though, and in the meantime added a tent in a spare room for good measure. At first I wasn’t really growing anything worthwhile, but now that I’ve got good genetics and modern lights I’m finally able to grow bud that I’m willing to smoke. Still settling into it and figuring out how much I need to keep myself supplied. In theory, I designed the room downstairs to fit up to ~18 plants with another row of lights. At that point I’m not sure how I’ll actually take pictures, though… I didn’t design for that, and I’ve gotten used to this style of journaling.
Still limping along with the updates… not quite weekly, but it’s better than monthly anyway. Last weekend I moved the other 3 Spirit Trains down to the flower room, rearranged the plants a bit and continued training the OST x ASS. My decision not to train #3 didn’t last long; instead of not doing anything else to her, I treated her a bit like a pair of shoelaces. She’s happier this way, really… or not. 
Either way, I’m happier this way, so it’s staying. I trained the Foxtails a bit too, mostly left the Spirit Train crosses alone so far. I’ll probably bend down the tops this weekend. Playing it by ear as far as what else gets moved down here and when, I’ll see how things look this weekend with the Romulans and whether I can sex them yet. 2 of the Blueberry will probably be ready sooner rather than later too, but we’ll see. Anyway, here’s the group shot:
The two Foxtail Skunk, looking a bit happier than last time now that I’m giving them adequate magnesium, rather than none at all or adding 2800ppm of magnesium to every watering. Go figure…
Four of the Spirit Train cross, one manifolded to 8 tops and the others standard structure… hopefully this comes out decent. One of the downsides of manifolding is that there’s so much extra stuff getting cut off, and I feel compelled to clone it all, and this clones really easily… so yeah, probably terrible potency. Oh well, if it’s not great I’ll stop growing it after this round.
Like I said, I’ve been doing a tiny bit of training on the OST x ASS. 
I particularly like the one in the middle, which is #3 because I labeled them when they were up in the tent. Now just to bend the branches back a bit so they aren’t so wide… it’d be tough to fit 9 more plants down here, or even 6, without pushing them closer together.
It’s update time again - well, this is me, it’s half-past update time but I’m just getting around to it. 
Been busy the past few days, mixing up the old soil with more drainage and reamending as usual… almost done with that. I’m gonna end up with a bunch of extra soil, so I guess I’ll just have to fill more pots and figure out where to put them later… my usual approach, in other words. Also moved the Romulans downstairs and potted up some of the Blueberries in 10g for next week when the new lights get here. Since I still had 16 plants in the tent, most in 3g pots that obviously wouldn’t last for 2-3 months of veg while I flower downstairs, I figured I’d just flower most out in 3g… for now, I moved the small Blueberry x Durban Freeze and two of the Old Silver Ass clones downstairs. Next weekend another Blueberry and four more Old Silver Ass clones will probably follow. That’ll leave the tent empty enough for me to start some new plants, which hopefully should take long enough to veg that the flower room’ll be empty again. Renovations will have to wait until I have enough bud that I don’t know what to do with it and end up making cookies just because I need the space, rather than because I’m about to run out. Hopefully that’ll only be a few cycles. Anyway, rambling (mostly) over for today, here’s the group shot:
Three Romulans, possibly… no idea how legit they are. They’re from Cyndi’s Seeds on Strainly, and I didn’t do anything even remotely resembling homework before buying them from her at $2/seed or so. I assume they’re a repro of some sort if they’re actually Romulans at all, but starting to wonder. #1 and 3 seem to be growing much more like indicas, short and stout without much branching - 2 seems more like a hybrid, fairly loose structure but doesn’t seem to be as crazy as a real sativa. I took clones of 1 and 2, fairly sure 3 is a male and I don’t like how it’s growing either, but unless they’re real dynamite I’m not gonna make seeds or bother keeping them around.
The last two Foxtail Skunk, possibly going a little bit better than last grow. Either way she’s gone - she’s very needy and doesn’t put out, pardon my French. I wasted enough time and money dating that girl, not about to waste any more growing her plant reflection.
Four clones of some random cross from the Spirit Train. Probably shouldn’t have kept growing this many without testing first, but they’re big and going into flower already so they’ll get to finish. I tested the little bit of bud on the two clones I used to sex test, way back when, and it seemed decent… only got one hit though, so it was tough to really tell. Manifolding untested plants and cloning every branch you clip is apparently not the best plan, but I wasn’t sure on my cloning technique at that point. Since then I’ve had 100% success, so I’m thinking it was just that I’d taken clones from unhealthy plants and screwed up with them before.
The three Old Silver Ass from @SkunkHunt101 are starting to drop a few three-month-old sun leaves, but still looking good as far as the buds and new growth. Almost entirely white pistils at week 5, which probably means they’re showing some nice strong sativa influence. Either that, or it’s just that all my previous plants had their pistils go red earlier because they were nutrient-deficient… have to see how the other plants behave over the next few weeks.
The two Old Silver Ass clones that were furthest along were also put into flower in 3g pots on Monday. Did some training so I should end up with a decent number of tops per plant, with the way these stretch.
Apparently the universe is trying to tell me something… something about needing to plant more seeds, I think? I was just downstairs spraying the newcomers with neem & peppermint oil, and in the process I may have accidentally killed a spider. Dunno how they react to neem oil, anyway, and I sprayed the Romulan in the corner down pretty thoroughly before I noticed a few spiderwebs on the side closest to the corner. I’m assuming they were spiderwebs, anyway, and not spider mite webs, because otherwise there’d be a lot more plants looking a lot more miserable. Either way it got sprayed. So yeah, spiderwebs in the corner of my grow room definitely says it’s time to plant more seeds, however much my brain is telling me it’s a terrible idea because I have no room and am already supposed to be taking some more clones in about two weeks. Two more GG4 RIL F2 seeds going into paper towels, it’s future me’s problem.
Plants continue to flower… I continue to wonder whether I’ve got things right here. Lots of sun leaves drying up and dying on the OSAs. I’ve been told this is normal, but it seems to be too fast; the red stems and interveinal chlorosis say magnesium deficiency, but I have no idea whether that’s just part of the plants eating up older & useless leaves or an actual deficiency. I’ve tried upping the epsom on the Romulan that was starting to show as male last time to see what happens, and it doesn’t seem to be stunted or dropping a ton of leaves, so I think I might take that as a good sign and bump everyone else up to the same levels. I’d been using 1/2 tsp per gallon in water going to the roots, which is the same that I used in veg, so I guess it stands to reason that they’d need more in flower and under lights twice as intense. I won’t need to feed for a few more days; if the Romulan continues to not die and the OSA continue to show what seem like obvious magnesium deficiencies I’ll give it a try, what the hell. Anyway, rather crowded down here and it’s scheduled to get more so. I’m planning to move one of the Blueberries in 10g and at least four of the other OSA clones in 3g pots down here, then I’ll probably transplant another Blueberry from 3g to 10g and let it veg along with the other one for a week or two. That should end up being 16-18 down here all told, and should leave the veg tent pretty clear finally. I’ll hold off on popping more seeds for now. Enough rambling, here’s a group shot:
Old Silver Ass trio are continuing to flower. Week 6 now, I guess? Really does seem too early to have this many leaves dropping, hopefully next grow I get it dialed in. The buds look good though. Close-ups of a top for each plant below the main pic, maybe I even got the order right…
Foxtail Skunks. Kinda looks like the one on the far end isn’t getting as much light, since the other one has deficiencies and it doesn’t… need to make some adjustments so the far left back row light mover can go all the way to end of the room, it falls about 6 inches short right now.
Romulans; 1 and 2 turned out female like I thought, so I have cuts of both in the cloner, and 3 male so I didn’t take any. The cuts still aren’t rooted though, it’s been nearly 3 weeks for #2… they seemed to be healthy enough when I took them, but maybe I screwed it up again somehow.
A bunch of the Spirit Train cross clones. Just like mom, the buds are tiny. 
Not thrilled so far, I do still have clones but they might end up being the last grow.
Two OSA clones in 3g pots, and what I suspect is a male Blueberry x Durban Freeze. Almost hope so actually, I need to free up more bin space. If it turns out female, I suppose I’ll survive.
Looks like update time again. Took the pictures yesterday, but I got (stayed?) lazy and didn’t get around to posting. As planned, the OSAs in 3g and one of the Blueberry from upstairs got moved down here; topped a few of them, trained some others, and that’ll probably be it for the next few weeks. We’ll see how stretch goes, doesn’t look like any of them should run out of room.
Old Silver Ass trio, week 7 of flower. They seemed happier for a few days after getting extra magnesium, but are yellowing again now; I’m thinking it’s nitrogen this time, haven’t given them any in a few weeks other than top-dressing which takes 2-3 months to break down. They need water soon anyway, I’ll give everyone some fish oil this time.
Foxtail Skunk. Calcium deficiencies showing now that I upped the magnesium, she’s pickier and more needy than any of my other plants and gives nothing in return. Not sure why I’m not just killing these two right now, but they’re on week 5 of flower and it still makes decent RSO; less than two more months and she’ll be out of my life forever.
All the Spirit Train clones lined up in a row. I didn’t kill the other clones I have of her yet, though one of them is first on the chopping block if I need more room… last time despite the small buds, she was a decent yielder, so I’m gonna wait and see before removing her from rotation. Easier to kill her than bring her back to life. Week 5 for the manifolded one, week 4 for the others.
Romulans are looking decent, I guess… week 3 of flower, not much to see. I sprayed them with neem a few days ago because they’re going slow enough that I thought they were on week 2, so they may have garlic terpenes when I finish up.
Dunno why I even took individual pictures of all these… 8 OSA clones in 3g pots and a Blueberry in 10g. OSA 2 and 3 each have one clone that’s 3 weeks along, everything else is 1 week. Sprayed the 3-week ones with neem along with the Romulans, more garlic bud! They’re all likely to go to 13 weeks or longer though, I think - Romulans are a straight sativa hybrid, and OSA is a cross of the 16-20 week OST with 10-11 week ASS. If I had to make that mistake with anything, this is a good time.
Looks great brother
I need to run some Romulan
When you see mineral deficiency try a spray Mix 1 teaspoon to a quart of water spray lightly at lights out
Also kelp juice is a great spray for clones and finicky plants
I’ve got cuts of the Romulan in the cloner, hopefully they’ll actually root - been a few weeks already, so who knows. If they do, I wouldn’t mind sharing down the line. 
If not, the yield’s looking decent already, so either way perhaps I can share something.
Like I said the other day, I probably do need to buy a CalMag supplement… micros should be fine, I regularly spray with kelp and epsom. Pretty sure I sprayed right after taking this last round of pics, actually, and again last night. If there’s something missing, I think it’s one of the big ones, and calcium seems the most likely culprit. My fertilizer has about 12% calcium. I think I remember reading recently that a healthy soil should be about 60% calcium, or some insane-sounding number like that?
Not sure if I mentioned earth juice microblast. It’s all about trace minerals when ever I can’t figure out the right deficiency it always ends up trace minerals I add this stuff all better
I know I’ve got some romulan seeds and crosses in the vault somewhere
Yeah, most of Earth Juice’s stuff doesn’t deserve the name though. I amend their dry mix on a pretty regular basis and that should cover most of it, I think it’s just gonna end up deficient in cal-mag. I ordered some of the BAS Craft blend that I’m gonna try using for a side-by-side with a run of clones, and some TPS organic cal-mag to use in the short-term. Depending which does better, I’m either going to switch to BAS amendments and water-only or buy some lime and make some organic cal-mag myself after a little bit of research to verify that it won’t blow me up. I’m kinda hoping the BAS does better, or at least as well despite being more expensive, because water-only is a very attractive idea.
I guess I skipped another update… oh well. The plants don’t know the difference, and I mostly managed to keep feeding them, so that’s good anyway. They got close to running out of water a few days ago and, once the dust and compost tea had settled, look to have dropped a few leaves in the process. I don’t think these are falling from deficiencies though, it seems bumping up the epsom in the water took care of that. Eventually I’ll have to experiment to see if the cal-mag I ordered actually helps, but for now they don’t seem to be doing badly. Dunno, maybe they could benefit from cal-mag even if they’re not actually showing deficiencies anymore. At any rate, I paid for it, so I might as well try to get some use out of it. Anyway, with another Blueberry in a 10g pot down here, it’s not really gonna work to show the whole group in one shot:
Three OSAs from @SkunkHunt101 doing their thing, now at week 9. Number 1 might be getting close to done; the pistils are mostly red, trichs were about 75% cloudy or amber last I checked with only 25% still clear. Number 2 (picture 3) seemed like it was gonna be finishing soon, then started throwing a bunch of foxtails; number 3 never even looked like it was getting close to done, and has also started foxtailing like mad. Oh well, all smokes pretty much the same, and it makes even less difference reduced to RSO. It’ll be interesting to see if any of the bud from 2 and 3 has more sativa-ish properties in the smoke, once it’s all chopped and cured… that’s a ways to go still, though.
Two Foxtail Skunks at week 7. Should be 2-3 more weeks before I’m done with them, then they go in the queue for RSO and I hope to never grow such crappy weed again. Dunno, maybe it’s CBD or a 1:1, but it’s definitely not doing it for anyone who smokes it. Not doing much in the way of pain relief either though… I wouldn’t know the difference, but my friend hasn’t noticed it helping with his back at all.
Four Spirit Train crosses, possibly with the Foxtail… the buds seem bigger than the Spirit Train F2 I ran, but then again I’ve been giving them adequate magnesium this run and the F2 wasn’t getting it. They have a decent smell too, light and fruity of some sort. Hopefully the smoke is worth it, if not I only have one more to grow and I might just cull that one. The manifolded one is at 7 weeks and the others are at 6.
“Romulans” at 5 weeks. Big, fairly wide leaves, very long petioles, thick buds… if I didn’t know better, I’d think this wasn’t Romulan at all, but some sort of indica mix. Then again, I guess I don’t really know better, I don’t know anything about the source other than she said they were Romulan. Meh. Wasn’t from OG, this is what I get for buying from people I don’t know on Strainly. It doesn’t seem bad, just not sure whether they’re legit. No smell yet, but a piney stem rub. Is that what Romulan is supposed to be? I guess I wouldn’t know it if it came up, smacked me in the back of the head and had a long conversation about pearl necklaces over my passed-out body… oh, wait, that’s not a Romulan. That’s just @Slick1 and @Nagel420 up to their usual homoerotic banter. I haven’t heard the words “ookie cookie” since I was first very disturbed by it in my all-boys freshman dorm at boarding school… of course, there I wasn’t entirely sure that I wasn’t going to be pulled out of my bed at night and hazed with it. I’m pretty sure they aren’t going to do that now… 86% sure, at least.
First Blueberry at 3 weeks. There haven’t been any issues with the lights, and this one is herming too. Not sure what the deal is, no trouble the first and second grow but since then they’ve both had minor herm issues. The last one that hermed didn’t seem to release any pollen though - it hasn’t all been smoked yet, but so far there were no seeds in the last one. Not seeing any on the OSAs either, and they started flowering when the last Blueberry was herming. I think I might just leave these balls too and see what happens… probably move shim upstairs if so, though. This time the room’s a lot fuller than last time, if there is actually any pollen. @Papalag, you should probably know about this before taking a clone. I don’t think @Nagel420 has had any issues though… The second Blueberry just came down this weekend, we’ll see if she decides to herm too.
Eight OSAs all lined up. Snapped individual shots of the ones at 5 weeks and then a group shot of everyone else at 3 weeks.
If I pointed out a squirrel on the street would that be naturalist behavior? It’s no different when I call out @Nagel420 on his activities. He’s not suddenly a midgetologist when he reports about my activities is he? I’ve said too much.
I do use cal net and Epson salts in veg
I never use it in flower ( too much N )
I myself tend to see micro nutrients and trace minerals problems ! The product microblast from earth juice is a good thing to have around 
it get 3 thumbs up
Pics look great brother
Very detailed Journal
Not trying to be snarky, but I just don’t know quite what to do with this advice… you’re in hydro and I’m in organic soil. 
I know they need higher cal-mag and micros during stretch and the first few weeks of flower, and then their needs tend to drop… as far as what that actually means for how I should change my top-dressing or any bottle-feeding I’m doing, 
I’m not even sure I know how my fertilizers work, in that the Earth Juice - which says on the bag that you can use it to amend soil before transplanting, and certainly implies that it should be water-only from then on - contains potassium sulfate. Isn’t that fully water-soluble, so as soon as I water the soil it would give whatever’s planted there a massive potassium excess? As far as the epsom, too, I’m not sure - @Nagel420 mentioned that he adds epsom to his water, but only every three weeks. I don’t understand this. I’m adding it every week because it’s water-soluble, as far as I understand it, so adding it every three weeks would just mean two weeks of deficiency followed by a week of adequate levels. Or is this just completely wrong, and it’s building up in my soil because I add it every week and will eventually kill all my plants? Or is this part of the whole “plants take what they need from the soil” thing, which I also don’t entirely understand… pretty sure I’ve seen @ReikoX mention his soil having excess nutrient levels before. If the plants take what they need, how is an excess possible? Dunno, in order to really know what you’re doing with soil it seems like you need to have multiple master’s degrees and even then it ends up a coin toss. Sometimes I want to go hydro too, just so I can know what I’m actually feeding.
Anyway, this cal-mag is from TPS, their organic version; it doesn’t use calcium nitrate, so there’s no nitrogen. It does apparently contain iron and other micros, though it doesn’t have any guaranteed analysis for them like it does for the cal-mag. That said, I want to wait and see what happens with the plants I put into flower 3 weeks ago, because they’ve been getting more epsom the whole time. If they don’t show deficiencies in another few weeks, it might be that there’s no real reason for me to use this - of course, I also don’t know if they can use more cal-mag even once they aren’t showing deficiencies. That Blueberry we saw a few weeks ago had much bigger buds than mine have; I haven’t flowered one out since I changed the epsom levels though. Is that just because of the epsom, or do I need more cal-mag in general? It seems like the best way I have to answer these questions is to just do things, and find out if it makes my plants die.
Oh, speaking of not being sure I know what the hell I’m doing and nutrient levels, my Blueberry keeps growing with the leaves getting oddly twisted and crinkly at the edges. I’ve read that Blueberry doesn’t like high nitrogen… I also read a post this morning from @the_bot mentioning that high nitrogen levels tend to inhibit ethylene generation and might lead to a higher number of herms. The Blueberry didn’t start herming until I started reusing soil. Maybe I need to feed them less and make sure I don’t mix their soil with others that I’ve top-dressed at my usual rate…
Remember, I am using well water, not filtered. The ca and mg are kinda there, they need a boost for me. You are using different water, be it city water, or a different aquifier. Gotta consider that…
The nitrogen theory sounds like it has merit, I am sure you saw some yellow fans. I have been light on ferts at times because of running autos. But those blueberry were definitely in re-used soil… Amended with bloodmeal and bonemeal, with a little added perlite on the reamending. otherwise its composted roots and my original mix. Definitely 2nd time used, possibly 3rd time even. I have never seen a nanner on the BB’s I have flowered either. And I don’t top dress really. Most of my nutes go thru that little drip system. That might be it also, the slow delivery of nutes every 3-4 days, allows the soil to soak it up with virtually no runoff. (watering every day otherwise)
I’m basically using RO water, though it’s from installing a whole-house filter instead; the TDS meter that I bought a while back and have almost never used shows my water at 20 ppm, which is apparently the lowest increment that the meter can register. So yeah, definitely far more needed in there compared to yours. It’s the fact that it’s intermittent that I’m confused about. If your well water is deficient in magnesium, wouldn’t you need to add less magnesium than you currently do but add it every time you water? Or is it enough to add it every 3 weeks because it builds up in the soil, and I’m just fundamentally misunderstanding how salts in soil work?
When I say I have an excess, it is usually in relation to other elements. It’s all about balance, if one thing is out of whack, something else can get locked out.
Take for example calcium and magnesium. They are both very similar in charge, so if there is too much magnesium then they plant will have trouble taking in calcium. This is why they make Cal-Mag formulas. So you keep the ratio of calcium to magnesium in check.
Ah, yes, and this is why my head explodes whenever I pull up this picture and think about how it might apply to me.
So, my issue with magnesium is not necessarily caused by a lack of magnesium, or a timing issue with the breakdown of the magnesium in the fertilizer… it can also be caused by excess calcium causing lockout, excess potassium causing lockout, high levels of phosphorus increasing the need for magnesium, or high levels of molybdenum causing increased need for nitrogen causing increased need for magnesium, or anywhere in between. Whee! Add in that I don’t know how to use salts in soil, and this is definitely looking good… well, I already know your advice, to get a soil test and then start using BAS craft blend. I’m at least halfway there, I’ve ordered some craft blend; after this one, I really do plan to shut down my flower room and have been refraining from popping more seeds or taking too many clones, so it seems like it might actually happen. That’ll give me time to get the soil tested while it’s not actively being used in a grow, and hopefully reamend before the next one.
To be honest, just using the craft blend will work. The craft blend was made with proper ratios. Jeremy got similar results with using a soil test vs just using “the build a soil way”.
Soil testing will definitely make your head explode trying to understand it. I’ve been at it for a couple years and am still learning. 
I use small amounts of Epson salts every week I fine it’s better to stay ahead of the deficiency [quote=“Cormoran, post:133, topic:63249”]
nd it’s building up in my soil because I add it every week and will eventually kill all my plants? Or
[/quote]
When I do soil I find that every month one watering is water only and I let it run through a bit like a mini flush I fell it helps especially when in small 2 to 3 gal bags
That’s why now I don’t use
Living soil or super soil is soil with fertilizer
Promix baby
Then I give the plant exactly what she needs no more no less works for me
Interesting I’d like to see this Ty
DANG! I add nutes tues / sat. but 3-4 out of the other 5 days I would be watering thru that drip system. Figured it avgs about 1g per pot per day, and those are 5g pots. then once or twice in veg I will flood that tray for a good bottom soak.