Does anyone have any thoughts on the clan mating system used with chickens? You basically maintain 3/5 lines and rotate the best males round with every breeding cycle.
Apparently with 5 clans you can rotate males indefinitely without running into inbreeding issues.
For cannabis wouldn’t this be similar? With some adaptions it seems like it could be a neat way to make a sort of heirloom/indefinite line.
I suspect that given there is no mention of it on the forum, it isn’t a good idea. But I thought I’d ask…
@crownpoodle@Mithridate much MUCH respect my brothers. The feeling is ABSOLUTELY mutual you guys will always , ALWAYS have me in your corner , and I can’t say enough how much your friendship means. Not a lot of people I chat with almost daily anymore. Reading that put a big ass smile on my face!
PCR analysis to identify male and female seedlings of Cannabis sativa. In female plants, a band of approximately 540 bp in size was observed, while in male plants, a 390 bp size band was always observed and the 540 bp band was sometimes detected. (A,B) Strain “Moby Dyck” and “Blue Deity” showed a 5:7 and 9:5 ratio of male (M) and female (F) plants, respectively, from seeds derived from a male:female cross. (C) Strain “Healer” showed a 2:14 ratio of male:female plants. (D,E) All female plants derived from seeds resulting from hermaphroditic flowers of strains “Moby Dyck” (D) and “Space Queen” (E). (F) PCR analysis of anther tissues (A) showing female composition compared to male (M) and female (F) plants. Water control with no DNA (C) and 1 kb DNA ladder (NEB Quick-Load®) (L).
Oh this is interesting! It looks like some males also carry the full or partial female… chromosome? That would explain male herms, and why its harder to find truly stable males
This was also an interesting comment in that paper:
The allocation of resources by the female plant to pollen production, followed by seed production, can result in disproportionately lower levels of terpenes and essential oils (by up to 56%) in the pollinated flowers compared to unfertilized female flowers (Meier and Mediavilla, 1998).
This is what we’re looking for:
In rare cases (two out of 1,000 plants), the entire female inflorescence was displaced by large numbers of clusters of anthers instead of pistils (Figure 3). The factors which trigger this change in phenotype have not been extensively researched. This is due, in part, to the restrictions placed by government regulatory agencies on conducting research experiments on flowering cannabis plants (including in Canada), which reduces the opportunity to conduct the types of controlled experiments that are needed to elucidate the basis for hermaphroditism.
But sadness, no real research done yet apparently
Seems uh, Life finds a way:
Physical or chemical stresses can also have a role in inducing staminate flower development on female plants of marijuana. For example, external environmental stresses, e.g., low photoperiods and reduced temperatures in outdoor production, were reported to increase staminate flower formation (Kaushal, 2012). Some plants formed hermaphroditic flowers when female plants were exposed to extended periods of darkness early during growth or during altered photoperiods during the flowering stage, although the exact conditions were not described (Rosenthal, 1991, 2000). Such stress factors could affect internal phytohormone levels, such as auxin:gibberellin ratios (Tanimoto, 2005), which could in turn trigger hermaphroditic flower formation in marijuana plants. In Arabidopsis plants, auxin, gibberellin and ethylene interact with jasmonic acid (JA) to alter stamen production (Song et al., 2013, 2014). Consequently, jasmonic-acid deficient mutant Arabidopsis plants exhibited male sterility, with arrested stamen development and non-viable pollen (Jewell and Browse, 2016) while JA treatment restored stamen development in these mutants. In marijuana plants, environmental stress factors which enhance JA production could potentially promote hermaphroditic flower formation but this requires further study.
This has always been my thought right here. Hermaphroditic plants are hormone deficient. or like the info above, they’re literally carrying the other gender’s dna and not true females or males. It seems the males that stayed male that showed the 540band, had 170bp deleted from it. the true males didn’t show the 540band at all. and the herms showed both.
Sex determination system in diecious hemp has been well studied. Male plants carry the heterogametic sex (XY) and female plants the homogametic one (XX). However, despite the presence of specific sex chromosomes, the phenotypic expression of sex in hemp shows some flexibility. Some diecious hemp plants produce flowers of the opposite sex than the one determined by their chromosomal composition (Moliterni et al., 2004). Monecious hemp plants carry the homogametic sex (XX) and the ratio of female to male flowers in a single monecious plant is highly variable (Faux et al., 2014). This variation ranges from monecious plants that have predominantly male flowers to predominantly female flowers (Faux et al., 2013, 2014, 2016). Diecious hemp species abundantly exist in nature, while monecious plants have been developed from some mutants that were selected during the domestication of the crop. Monecious accessions tend to show a wide range in sex ratios within the crop, including unisexual plants, and may gradually return to natural dioecy after a few generations (Bócsa and Karus, 1998; Amaducci et al., 2008a; Faux et al., 2013, 2014; Faux and Bertin, 2014). Constant strict selection of monecious plants is therefore needed to maintain monoecy during the seed multiplication (Moliterni et al., 2004). The instability of the sexual phenotype across generations, and the quantitative nature of expression of the sex suggests that sex expression is a rather polygenic trait (Faux et al., 2013, 2014; Faux and Bertin, 2014).
Everything I’ve been saying right here. Herms are man-made, not normal. Drug cultivars were intentionally bred with hemp and seed-food lines in the past. That and poor selection(hErMs ArE NoRmAl) are why we still have them now. Other than that, that last paper I linked says the same thing. Hormone deficiency’s cause males to show in XX plants, and females to show in XY plants.
yah, here’s the shifty part. To induce flowering in…say a pineapple plant, I have to expose it to ethylene or acetylene gas. That’s why I lean towards ethylene… lol, gotta get the rhyme in there! Gibberellic acid will make the pineapple bigger by performing cell elongation. I’m not certain that the gibberlic acid actually induces flowering directly or starts a chain reaction. Just theories though, based on observations.
Reading the first paper, they seem to associate hermaphrodism with nanners or clusters thereof but don’t mention male organs until the bit about monoceous plants where plants come on a spectrum from strongly pistillate to strongly staminate.
Regarding sex det on a hormonal level, it’s possible hermies are suffering from n hormone efficient/n hormone inefficient genes where they’d overreact or underreact to cause imbalances.
I was reading a chemdog thread recently where someone mentioned finding a male in a pack of chem91 s1. That ‘male’ was used on the cut and seeds came out regs. A pure chemdog sire line.
Made me think of cookieboy, the male found by chunkypigs out of a cookie s1 I think, went on to make strong babies. Idk if his lines with it came out regs, if someone could confirm that…
Same happened with a few lines actually.
My Interest comes from a seed run I did recently where I got 1 ‘male’ (all pods/no pistils) out of 140 plants, and wondering if I won the lotto or if I created a mess.
Yeah I’ve seen more than a dozen full blown males out of those Chem91 S1’s. Makes me think that was purely pollen contamination.
IDK anything about that cookieboy male. Though, If he produced reg seeds, it was again, contamination. The papers say they got genetically females from female herm pollen…
I mean… Generally the only way you’re getting male plants in S1 seeds is if the parent had a Y. If you S1 a male you get reg seeds in a 70/30 ratio. So unless that male showed 100% female… from some hormone issue… I’d be hard-pressed to believe it until we get more genetic data and testing done.
This is where I get confused…LOL
I understand the concept but not much else…
This seems to suggest that a monecious plant would have been developed from mutants.
The way I understood it was…
Unisex plants are normal and stable plants are mutants.
If I am wrong please help me to understand the error in my ways.
Could a hormone treatment be used to create a mutant that is Monecious?
Or would one need a mutagen to make a stable plant.
I am pretty sure GA/Gibb is a known mutagen and why it is seldom used to reverse plants.
Maybe gene mutation is what we really need.
Just spitballing here, you big thinkers are stetting the pace, I am just running along side to see what I find useful.
Monoecious/herms are the mutants and true females/males are the normal plants. Cannabis is naturally dioecious and produces separate male and female plants with basically no herms. Any “naturally” herming landrace was touched by man.
I’d think you’d need a mutagen, like colchicine. And that already has widespread evidence of use in cannabis from at least decades ago if not prior.
Yeah instead it’s breeding fucked up female plants imo. 50% Normal ethylene producing ‘true’ females, and the other half showing varying amounts of herm to faux-male from lack of ethylene production but still genetically females. I think I’d rather reverse another true female than to use one with completely broken ethylene production
you guys will always , ALWAYS have me in your corner , and I can’t say enough how much your friendship means. Not a lot of people I chat with almost daily anymore. Reading that put a big ass smile on my face!
