Thanks man, I’m starting to shuck the skunk this weekend.
Back is good, I returned to work already and can say with confidence it’s as good as new. Tested it yesterday lol. Hauled a 100 sheets of 3/4 plywood from the curb to the second floor and started to install the subfloor.
Don’t try this at home 
Hahaha, alright… alright… maybe I do 
Just didn’t really have a chance to sit down and give this and honest shot lately. Life’s been kicking me in the balls from the back in recent months, normalcy should return soon enough 
Missed that! That has the wheels turning!
Find enough good plants and use recurrent methods to see if it can be selected for.
Always the data and through it comes the diagram.
Yeah it’s a lot more complicated than Mendel’s punnets.
You don’t need an acre, it would be nice in an ideal world but we are where we are today and the vast bulk of it hasn’t been made using acres of breeding stock. The bigger issue imho is that the traits of interest need to be identified in as granular detail as possible and in a way that can be measured. This sounds simple enough but is non trivial and why most of use rely a lot on intuition, luck and experience with abandoned projects and failures a part of the process. A stable test variety is a very useful tool for getting some idea of trait heritability and combining abilities etc.
I searched your name in a different context @Mithridate. and I find this thread. This post in particular. Great thoughts. Years ago I met a old guy. Likely 10 years younger than I am now. He watched me get my shorts in a wad over dumb stuff. Finally he calls me aside. “Quit pole vaulting over mouse shit. All you have to do is pick your feet up and walk.”
Everything doesn’t have to be a big deal. Coincidence? I just started some BOG Sour Strawberry a couple days ago, courtesy of our friend @TopShelfTrees1 .
Thats a good one and illustrates perfectly the idea here haha
I have a tendency to under react and get to solving the problem right away, which gets many agitated lol.
Sour strawberry is one of my favorites, I’m quite obsessed actually 
Good on topshelf for sharing 
Good on @TopShelfTrees1 for a lot more than that. His friendship not related to weed and growing is a lot more important to me. We clicked right off, let’s put it that way.
I know exactly what you mean.
Top is an old model they don’t make anymore in a young dudes body lol.
I will vouch for him anywhere, any time, here, around a camp fire or in the trenches 
Does anyone have any thoughts on the clan mating system used with chickens? You basically maintain 3/5 lines and rotate the best males round with every breeding cycle.
Apparently with 5 clans you can rotate males indefinitely without running into inbreeding issues.
For cannabis wouldn’t this be similar? With some adaptions it seems like it could be a neat way to make a sort of heirloom/indefinite line.
I suspect that given there is no mention of it on the forum, it isn’t a good idea. But I thought I’d ask… 
That’s really interesting on the chickens. We bred some this year and are trying to trade to bring in outside roosters.
@crownpoodle @Mithridate much MUCH respect my brothers. The feeling is ABSOLUTELY mutual 
you guys will always , ALWAYS have me in your corner , and I can’t say enough how much your friendship means. Not a lot of people I chat with almost daily anymore. Reading that put a big ass smile on my face!
Does anyone know of a paper on “xx males” or seemingly male plants popping from feminized or selfed lines ?
Thanks
Gotta love ChatGPT Academic Resarcher plugin
TLDR;
PCR analysis to identify male and female seedlings of Cannabis sativa. In female plants, a band of approximately 540 bp in size was observed, while in male plants, a 390 bp size band was always observed and the 540 bp band was sometimes detected. (A,B) Strain “Moby Dyck” and “Blue Deity” showed a 5:7 and 9:5 ratio of male (M) and female (F) plants, respectively, from seeds derived from a male:female cross. (C) Strain “Healer” showed a 2:14 ratio of male:female plants. (D,E) All female plants derived from seeds resulting from hermaphroditic flowers of strains “Moby Dyck” (D) and “Space Queen” (E). (F) PCR analysis of anther tissues (A) showing female composition compared to male (M) and female (F) plants. Water control with no DNA (C) and 1 kb DNA ladder (NEB Quick-Load®) (L).
Oh this is interesting! It looks like some males also carry the full or partial female… chromosome? That would explain male herms, and why its harder to find truly stable males 
This was also an interesting comment in that paper:
The allocation of resources by the female plant to pollen production, followed by seed production, can result in disproportionately lower levels of terpenes and essential oils (by up to 56%) in the pollinated flowers compared to unfertilized female flowers (Meier and Mediavilla, 1998).
This is what we’re looking for:
In rare cases (two out of 1,000 plants), the entire female inflorescence was displaced by large numbers of clusters of anthers instead of pistils (Figure 3). The factors which trigger this change in phenotype have not been extensively researched. This is due, in part, to the restrictions placed by government regulatory agencies on conducting research experiments on flowering cannabis plants (including in Canada), which reduces the opportunity to conduct the types of controlled experiments that are needed to elucidate the basis for hermaphroditism.
But sadness, no real research done yet apparently
Seems uh, Life finds a way:
Physical or chemical stresses can also have a role in inducing staminate flower development on female plants of marijuana. For example, external environmental stresses, e.g., low photoperiods and reduced temperatures in outdoor production, were reported to increase staminate flower formation (Kaushal, 2012). Some plants formed hermaphroditic flowers when female plants were exposed to extended periods of darkness early during growth or during altered photoperiods during the flowering stage, although the exact conditions were not described (Rosenthal, 1991, 2000). Such stress factors could affect internal phytohormone levels, such as auxin:gibberellin ratios (Tanimoto, 2005), which could in turn trigger hermaphroditic flower formation in marijuana plants. In Arabidopsis plants, auxin, gibberellin and ethylene interact with jasmonic acid (JA) to alter stamen production (Song et al., 2013, 2014). Consequently, jasmonic-acid deficient mutant Arabidopsis plants exhibited male sterility, with arrested stamen development and non-viable pollen (Jewell and Browse, 2016) while JA treatment restored stamen development in these mutants. In marijuana plants, environmental stress factors which enhance JA production could potentially promote hermaphroditic flower formation but this requires further study.
This has always been my thought right here. Hermaphroditic plants are hormone deficient. or like the info above, they’re literally carrying the other gender’s dna and not true females or males. It seems the males that stayed male that showed the 540band, had 170bp deleted from it. the true males didn’t show the 540band at all. and the herms showed both.
Oh, there was this paper too:
This is from that last paper I linked:
Sex determination system in diecious hemp has been well studied. Male plants carry the heterogametic sex (XY) and female plants the homogametic one (XX). However, despite the presence of specific sex chromosomes, the phenotypic expression of sex in hemp shows some flexibility. Some diecious hemp plants produce flowers of the opposite sex than the one determined by their chromosomal composition (Moliterni et al., 2004). Monecious hemp plants carry the homogametic sex (XX) and the ratio of female to male flowers in a single monecious plant is highly variable (Faux et al., 2014). This variation ranges from monecious plants that have predominantly male flowers to predominantly female flowers (Faux et al., 2013, 2014, 2016). Diecious hemp species abundantly exist in nature, while monecious plants have been developed from some mutants that were selected during the domestication of the crop. Monecious accessions tend to show a wide range in sex ratios within the crop, including unisexual plants, and may gradually return to natural dioecy after a few generations (Bócsa and Karus, 1998; Amaducci et al., 2008a; Faux et al., 2013, 2014; Faux and Bertin, 2014). Constant strict selection of monecious plants is therefore needed to maintain monoecy during the seed multiplication (Moliterni et al., 2004). The instability of the sexual phenotype across generations, and the quantitative nature of expression of the sex suggests that sex expression is a rather polygenic trait (Faux et al., 2013, 2014; Faux and Bertin, 2014).
Everything I’ve been saying right here. Herms are man-made, not normal. Drug cultivars were intentionally bred with hemp and seed-food lines in the past. That and poor selection(hErMs ArE NoRmAl) are why we still have them now. Other than that, that last paper I linked says the same thing. Hormone deficiency’s cause males to show in XX plants, and females to show in XY plants.
The hormone in question is ethylene.
That’s one, yes. Ethylene deficiency in females. Ethylene overproduction in males. Could also be gibberellin over/under production too.
yah, here’s the shifty part. To induce flowering in…say a pineapple plant, I have to expose it to ethylene or acetylene gas. That’s why I lean towards ethylene… lol, gotta get the rhyme in there! Gibberellic acid will make the pineapple bigger by performing cell elongation. I’m not certain that the gibberlic acid actually induces flowering directly or starts a chain reaction. Just theories though, based on observations.
