Epigenetics - causing mystery/confusion with genetics

Basic Growing Info
#1

I have 0 formal education on the topic or anything related to it, but I was just hoping to get the discussion going, get some more educated people to explain things.

Essentially: DNA can change after birth. Trauma or other experiences can change or even add DNA. Is it possible this explains variation in clones that are supposedly the same but display wildly different traits, or when an old cut “just isn’t like it was 20 years ago”?

Also: does stressing a parent plant make it a worse parent? These changes can be passed to offspring. So, in theory, a stressed plant would put out different(worse?) progeny from a clone of itself that had never been stressed

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#2

There’s an important point to take into consideration:

DNA can change after birth for a lot of reason, including by being cloned, but also viruses/viroids, the later explaining why a cut can change. But epigenetic does not. As I understood it, epigenetic change can be transmitted to the direct offspring, but won’t survive more than that really in a line. I might be wrong on that last one though, take that with usual cautions.

As for “worth than the parent”, it all depends on the induced change. Herming being the worst :smiley:

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#3

Take a look at Transgenerational epigenetic inheritance - Wikipedia

These changes can propagate beyond direct offspring.

This is a very complex topic, that would require studying several generations to try to quantify. A stressed plant might make worse offspring, or it might pass stress resilience on to the offspring. I don’t know that there is a way to say a priori.

The few herm seeds of mine I’ve grown out were completely stable. I know that’s a small sample size and completely anecdotal.

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#4

Right I forgot this page, did not really finished it, quite complex topic indeed.

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#5

[quote=“Pleiochasium, post:3, topic:137424”]
These changes can propagate beyond direct offspring.

This is a very complex topic, that would require studying several generations to try to quantify. A stressed plant might make worse offspring, or it might pass stress resilience on to the offspring. I don’t know that there is a way to say a priori.

Exactly :raised_hands:t3: sort of been looking into this for years, why is it most of the breeders who don’t baby anything always have the best plants imho it’s definitely a very interesting topic

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#6

I took an epigenetics course at Coursera.

My professor used the “alligator clip” analogy. He said, “think of your genes as a book with certain sections of each chapter clipped together with alligator clips so only a subset of pages are available, during an epigenetic shift some alligator clips are released and others a clipped to add or prevent the reading of pages.”
With that in mind, about 10 years ago we had an epidemic of “dudding” going around and what the virus was doing was causing an epigenetic shift in plants that caught it. It would “clip” the immunity respsonses of the plant such as resin production to bypass its natural responses and infect the entire plant so that it could reproduce and spread to other plants. Same thing happened with COVID but with COVID we “unclipped” those regions that were clipped by the COVID virus.

It is very likely that epigenetic shifts explain clone “drift”. Some just from stress others from virus.

I can tell you specifically about results I have first hand experience with.
I experienced dudding and kept a clone that was fully dudded because I simply could not let it go, it was Tampa Bay Crippy, and old school cut of “crippy” I scored from an old hand up in Dunedin, FL. I live about 10 miles away. But it was fully dudded and that winter I flowered it outside and hit it with Stardawg pollen and then tossed the cut (keeping duds around is too dangerous). The next year I ran the seeds to see if the seeds would produce duds and I could tell early on that they were not dudded. I was getting powerful smelling stem rubs and I took them into early flower and they clearly produced resins and powerful aromas. So, although not conclusive, I do not believe that dudded parents produce dudded progeny. I would be somewhat concerned about the virus getting on the seeds though.

As far as dudding, although it is currently asserted that it is a virus I am still a little skeptical and I am personally leaning toward it being a variant of phytopthora (root rot). I have personally observed “spores” on the undersides of leaf stems on infected plants and the virus doesnt do that as far as I know.

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#7

Environment is the key to EVERYTHING. It’s the main reason clone cuts perform differently from one grower to another, regardless of scale. It’s the reason you talk the way you do :man_shrugging:t2: the people you’ve hung out with, the language and knowledge you’ve been exposed to, etc.

Environment IMO is the ultimate key to EVERYTHING as it pertains to ANY living thing expressing its traits

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#8

Very interesting.

My buddy @Cactus may be interested in this conversation.

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#9

sounds a lot like what has been called “epigenetic drift” in humans

Heres quite a pertinent paper relating to humans but also applicable

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#10

If you want to influence DNA, it’s intent that will make a difference too.

How we think changes our DNA, our hormones, our immunesystem, everything…
On a quantum level, and over 90% of our DNA is purely quantum (existing at a frequency we can’t perceive, yet), we create our reality both individually and collectively.

So be very very clear about your intent, about what you want to happen to yourself and to your plants.

I started breeding with the intent to produce plants that are very healing and blissful and soothing and I trust that will happen, somehow, I’m not concerned with how, that’s for the universe to figure out.

I don’t believe we’re meant to figure everyhing out, I think we’re here to simply enjoy and witness what has been created for us and to simply steer our lives by what feels good and to formulate intent that feels good and to then watch the magic (DNA) unfold.

So when you sow your seeds, be very clear about what you want to get from that plant and write it down or say it out loud.

The Universe can’t yield to you what you want if you aren’t expressing it.

This is my simple reasoning, we are living in infinite cosmic complexity, I know I’m much happier by being simple and accepting and embracing the mystery of it all.

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#11

Thanks for all the input, everyone. Already learning a lot

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#12
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#14
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#15

Ooh that’s a good one

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#16

X Inactivation and Epigenetics: Vibrant Animation & Explanation | WEHI TV @Redrum92 I hope you like this one gets going at 1:00 mark very fun!

Mind you this x inactivation doesn’t happen in plants but the action of the histones does.

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