For flower, to my eyes, that’s a heavy heavy amount of N!!
You’ll want for at least 60-80 PPM Phosphorus (elemental P) in early flower. Jack’s, Dr. Bugbee, Athena, Canna, and countless others concur to load up on P in early flower. Bugbee states that without a high injection of P in early flower, the plant will become deficient in P before harvest. This is relevant to Manutec here because they are packaging a 2-part product under WA regulation which heavily restricts P:
You might look into swapping this blend out for something like Jack’s Bloom Boost for flower weeks 1 and 2? Then hop back on the Manutec.
Check this out, and also look at Harley’s RAW line feed schedule to contrast. In the end P is an environmental pollutant and all parties are limiting it’s use both in formula and in discussion.
Reason I ask is coz the other stuff you mention is not available in Australia
I’ve had decent results with it in veg running on 7ph tap water (I grabbed it in a pinch when I ran out of everything as it’s commonly available).
So are you saying it will go alright with a heavy dose of P at the start of flower?
Would canna PK work or too much k?
Anything cheap and easy for coco I’d find at the hardware store?
Thanks so much for your awesome hill pictures and giving away your time and expertise to the community
P.S. any chance you could run it next to maxi series grow schedule? Also please brighter hill pictures , can barely see that last one with these here Sunburned eyes.EDIT: AH…zoom , I get it
And tell me what I need to get it there? (It’s crazy cheap agricultural grade stuff )
I’m just parroting what the big players seem to do and advise. Lots of P in early flower and no harm (to the plant) in keeping P high through flower. Based on my generalized understanding, ~60+ PPM elemental P is sufficient to cover all bases.
I think that comes down to total EC and Mulder’s chart (interactions between nutrients depending on their relative concentrations). So, you already provide a pretty high K (compared to many other commercial brands). Adding MPK might, a) push EC high enough to be too hot, and/or b) push K high enough to stimulate/antigonize the uptake of other nutrients to the detriment of your goals. I can’t know, but maybe look to just add elemental P, if you can get your hands on it?
For sure, that’s why were here!
We need to make assumptions first. let’s assume you’re comparing to MaxiBloom’s “Aggressive” feed schedule for early to mid bloom:
This blend is similar to Peter’s / Jack’s hydro line. Here it is compared to the most recent “321” ratio’s from Jack’s, both @ 150N per the respective schedules:
Here too you would probably benefit from adding some P in bloom, and Fe looks light compared to some data from Bruce Bugbee regarding hydro crops. I even add chelated Fe to Jack’s when I run it, and mind you, Jack’s has 2.5x the Fe as HydroCrop here.
So I wonder how much less of the calcium nitrate (part B) I would use to get acceptable N levels (and would everything else be ok when we got there?)
And then I can add a pure phosphorus nutrient available here at the hydro shop) or
I can’t seem to find the ingredients of the Manutec MBP5550, like a full list. I know it has sulfur in it but isn’t detailing how much on the front label pictures I can find. Can you source me a back label pic, or website with a list of nutrients and %? I can already see that a 12:5 mix of Part A:B in bloom allows for 150N target, leaving a need for both a P supplement, and maybe for some extra Ca, Mg, and S depending on your water and plants and all that. The MBP5550 has the Ca and S, and Mg+S = epsom salts if you need more. Let’s look at the label and go from there.
This is starting to really pan out, if I can just use this with Epsom and less cal nitrate should be great
Can still spray tge cal nit for calcium def(immobile nutrient so needs it in foiler)
I’m laughing to tye bank
Agressive feeding chart looks about right, I add 5g of maxibloom per gallon and a bit more or less depending how the ladies look
Don’t use anything else other than seaweed based fish type stuff once on a while
I love growing heirloom tomatoes. Every year I grow the last year’s favorite, plus anything new that I want to try.
This year I grew German Stripeys (seeds saved from last year) and a new entry, Black Cherry Plums. These are bigger than a cherry tomato, but delicious flavor and a bit “plum” shaped.
Anyway…these are outdoors, 4 in raised beds, and 2 in 25gal containers. I was feeding them about every 3rd week, using Masterblend 2 part. The second part is labeled Cal-Mag.
I made a mistake with my feeding. I noticed my blossoms seemed to be late, so figured I needed to feed the OPPOSITE of Nitrogen to promote fruiting instead of more vegetation. So I gave them about 3wks of the Cal-Mag…still no buds. Plants are 6ft tall at this point.
I finally take a close look at what I’m using, and Part 2, the Cal-Mag?..is like 15-0-0, so HEAVY Nitrogen. Fuq.
So I stop that routine, and switch to the Part 1. 3wks later, plants are budding.
Fast forward to now. The Black Cherry Plum has produced well over 400 tomatoes, and there’s at least another 100 on the plant now, tho since it dropped to 27deg here last night, pretty sure they’re done for
I’ve never seen a tomato plant be that prolific, and this late into the season. I’m wondering if that prolonged period of heavy Nitrogen feeding might actaully have been a good idea. Fruit came in a bit later than usual, but once it came in…wow.
So same thing would apply to our cannabis plants, no? Once they get planted out, juice them heavily with Nitrogen, then switch them over when the light is changing, which is roughly 2nd week of August where I am.
Your tap looks pretty good on quick glance, similar to mine halfway around the globe.
Check this out… if you used 3.5g Part 1, 1.4g part 2, and 1.4g of the MBP5550, you’d have a verrry similar blend to Jack’s 321 but with headroom for Mg and S if you prefer or need it.
Adding twice as much more MBP5550 (2.8-2.9g per gallon) you hit ~87 PPM §, but calcium is now pretty high though when is the last time you saw a calcium toxicity?
LOL no worries here at least!! I grew up in my father’s greenhouses and probably have more promix in my lungs than most people have used in containers and have long ago realized that cannabis isn’t as alien or different from other fruiting crops as the cannabis industry would have us believe.
So you basically did what commercial growers do when going for yeild-first! It sounds like you juiced them to the tits with Nitrogen, and then flowered the giants suddenly by dropping N in late season, effectively whipping the plant into realizing she’s going to die. She threw herself a wild party.
My only concern in this is yield dilution. The more we attempt to limit yield by lowering N, the more concentrated the cannabinoids (or sugars etc for fruit) become within the remaining yield. If those fruits developed quickly and all at once, we might assume they were “rushed” if you will. Listen this topic is ripe (pun) for debating where the line of diminishing returns are and there’s zero correct answers, just preferences. FWIW if the harvest still tastes every bit as delicious, then it is every bit better and you’ve cracked some of the matrix code! I’ll be keeping this in mind moving forward because I often limit N in veg to keep things small and athletic, but would maybe experiment with some higher-N treatments to see this play out side by side.
I offer the data and advice with the caveat that it’s a jumping off point for discussion! I can’t conclude anything too specific, like if the calcium will be too much. I have highish calcium in my tap and can load up on gypsum, and I amend with gyp too, and have happy crops. I would hope it works out but know that the calcium is high compared to most commercial blends, so if you see issues you’ll know where to start.
You have headroom for around 1g/gal epsom compared to say, Athena:
Thanks! Yeah just excel. I make a lot of different “programs” that look vaguely like a Bloomberg terminal if you’ve ever seen that. I title them with phony professional sounding names. Budget, fertilizer comparisons, OBDII based dyno readings (rpm x known tire circ x other math) = acceleration, back calc for force / G, plot… I made it output 1:1 clone PDF’s of what the old DynoJet plots looked like.
I was running my entire res feed system via touchscreen to excel’s data streamer function using an arduino uno, a “GUI” which was just a fullscreen excel sheet with macro buttons that sent code to the arduino, and a bunch of opto switches.
Edit, FWIW that’s such a pain in the butt to use excel for that… it’s purely for the abuse
I used NO3 154 ppm, NH4 7.0 ppm, P 38.8 ppm, K 195 ppm, Ca 140 ppm, Mg 42 ppm, S 56 ppm, Fe 2.5 ppm, Mn, 0.65 ppm, Zn 0.3 ppm, Cu 0.06 ppm, B 0.44 ppm and Mo 0.06 ppm for several years to grew plants like this one
That’s a lovely veg mix! It will take our beloved plant to a successful harvest.
At the stage of life you’re showing us, I would also be feeding a general mix neatly identical to one you posted.
My real aim through flower is to reduce N while not necessarily reducing calcium or phosphorus, and while increasing K (for example)… which isn’t trivial when we’re using CalNit to derive much of the N and Ca as linked elements. The various substitutions necessary to keep P high (50-90 ppm) and N low (50-90 PPM) while keeping other macros in check, and still delivering micros at standard rates while managing high hardness water in buffered peat via ammoniacal N is the fun of it all.
//OT//
A) “A car’s purpose is to get from A to B”
vs.
B) “I work on my car on weekends because I enjoy the methodical procedural work”
Who’s having more fun here? We both know person B is inventing things to work on (mods, hyper-maintenance, etc).
Does it help him get from A to B?
Is that even a relevant position?!
The fact that we’re all going to B together is a priori to the hobby. The only thing I really get guffed-up about is when people take a religious stance on nutrient/medium choice, and/or “ahh it’s doesn’t matter it’s in the margins” type talk. I sensed a tit of that with your post @immygod but, I’m not perfectly non-cynical. I’m here for the exploration of margins and I think all religions (grow methods) are “correct” through the lens of that religions culture. (i.e. don’t tell me XYZ is better/best, tell me what aspects are better through the lens of your growing experience and why!)
)
and have long ago realized that cannabis isn’t as alien or different from other fruiting crops as the cannabis industry would have us believe.
