Freakshow breeding?

Breeder's Lab
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Hi growers,

I understand that the Freakshow trait is a recessive gene, and i’ve done my fair share of ‘pollen chucking’ over the years but i’m also not too well versed in the science of it all, the meanings of heterozygous and such terms etc. and how recessive genes pass on…

So, i believe both parents need to have the Freakshow trait in order for the offspring to receive that trait, correct?

Now, if i cross a normal leaf plant to a Freakshow leaf plant there will be zero Freakshow looking phenotypes in the first generation offspring, correct or no?

If the above is accurate, i’m wondering what the fastest way to get the Freakshow trait in my hybrid? Crossing the F1s to make F2s to search through, or backcrossing my favourite F1s to a Freakshow mother?

If anyone has the answers please help me out.

Peace :peace_symbol: :alien:

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Hello @irrepairable-vessel . I beleive @crunkyeah may be able to help you. He should be along shortly.
:v::grin::+1:

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I don’t really have any technical answers but maybe a reply to what I did.
Yes you can breed a Freak to a regular leaf plant and the Freak won’t show most of the time because it’s buried under the dominant genes but it is still in there.
I made Freakshow Automatic, and because of double recessive traits, the phenotypes would not appear easily.
What I did was work both lines to develop the best parents, which was Freakshow and Gorilla Cookies. Then they were successfully bred.
It took literally over a 1000 F1 plant pheno hunt to select only 7 that “took”. From that 7 was the start I needed.
There were times where the strain wandered off track, so backcrossing and re-selecting was needed to stay the course.
What I mean is keeping the offspring where they maintain the leaf morphology, the autoflowering and of course potency.
I liken it to reaching into a swirling cauldron of numbers and pulling up & out what you need. It’s all in there it’s just layered numerically, like bouyancy and density.
“Pollen Sax” on YooToob has done amazing work on my Freakshow Automatic, it’s at F8 currently.
He’s a wonderful person and simply a genius, he runs SmokingMonkeyGenetics.

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thanks for the shout-out Magu :wave:

@irrepairable-vessel - freakshow as you know is recessive. the biggest thing we need to understand about recessive traits is that typically they ‘recede’ from the gene pool. dominant traits will dominate them, and subsequently ‘push out’ recessive genes from the gene pool. it’s nature’s way of making sure vitality is the number one priority when growing.

the easiest way to explain the process for recessive hunting is by a standard line-breeding program.
P1 [ freakshow mother ] x P2 [ any unrelated male ] = F1
F1 x F1 [ siblings ] = F2

F2 is the generation where the genome ‘busts open’ and the possibility for recessive phenotypes occurs. when outcrossing freakshow, this is the first opportunity to find ‘freak phenos’ with the new genetics introduced.

it can also be demonstrated with a Mendelian table.

P1 → aa
P2 → AA
P1 x P2 = F1 thus can be written… aa x AA = Aa, Aa, Aa, Aa
F1 x F1 = F2 thus can be written… Aa x Aa = aa, AA, Aa, Aa [ this is the f1 → f2 cross ]

as you can see there are 4 possibilities in the f2 generation - aa, AA, Aa, Aa
the seeds that express [ 25% ] will be aa, like the original freakshow mom. they will exhibit the freakshow leaves at f2. if you take two of those specimen and breed them together, the resulting f3 seeds will be 100% ‘locked in’.

if that isn’t confusing enough, freakshow also seems to carry this odd set of traits where only the females carry the freak genes. this presents a couple of issues… namely that if you don’t use a freakshow female, your chances of finding pinnate specimen in the progeny drops off dramatically. for some odd reason the traits follow the females. one of the advantages to being XX-linked is that we’re able to tell which specimen are male in the f1 generation.

eventually i might do a youtube video explaining mutant breeding techniques… it’s infinitely easier to explain in every other form than basic text. :crazy_face:

if you have questions please ask and i’ll try to explain it in another way.

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your results are quite interesting to me!

by ‘took’ what do you mean? the f1 generation both showed semi-auto as well as partial-freaky?

what you’ve done sounds like a ton of work so many thanks for your contributions :pray:

if you’d like i could give you a breeding table different from the traditional route which should encourage multiple recessives in offspring without having to sprout 1000 specimen to find the ones you want.

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I believe he used male cheese auto to pollinate his female freakshow keeper. He breed it to f4, made a listing through strainly after a month it was sold out or he removed it.

He backcross f4 freakshow auto to freakshow photo, to hunt for better pinnate and made it to F3 (BXF3) and its now available on his site at smokingmonkeygenetics.com

Yes please. :pray:

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Just want to weight this part with another possibility: for all you know unless you tested P2 looking at its progeny, it might as well be Aa. In which case the 25% recessive would show up in F1.

But that’s likely not the case for the freakshow trait, it’s not a widespread one in the genepool. Just a scenario not to forget in other cases.

@Wizdom may be of some help with freakshow breeding :slight_smile:

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He got both Freakshow and Freakshow Auto from me about 3 years ago.
Again, I used Gorilla Cookie auto (m) and Freakshow photoperiod (f) as the parents.
Yes, somewhere around F3 or 4 the leaves were losing the desired lace and needed back crossed, and he fixed it.
There’s no telling where he’s at now. I got off of it once it stabilized.
Lately I’ve been working on
Chimera#3 (breeder’s cut)
x Zombie Kuntz and wow!
what a homerun that one is
and a lot less work.

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Credit to you for working on freakshow auto.

Sorry about this. I got the information from his listing on strainly.

Good luck on this! :facepunch::boom:
Sounds like wildFIRE

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nah it can’t be in this case because the trait we’re assigning to A [ or a ] is the freakshow gene. since f1 males made the ‘right’ way [ by using a freak female ] tend to show up as freaky, you’ll either know they have it or they definitely won’t have it. unless you find it the same way they found freakshow i think it’s almost incredibly unlikely that it’s possible to find the mutation randomly.

@Crawlin-Bear63 i’ll second Brainwarp in saying credit to you for your work on freakshow auto. good work :+1:

for all, something to note: if you take 2 unrelated mutants of the same kind
example… 7 easts’ freaks of dank and breed it with original freakshow, the resulting f1 generation will be 100% mutant.

another example… if you use Crawlin-Bear63’s freakshow auto and breed it with freaks of dank the f1 generation would be 100% pinnate and semi-auto. taking it to f2 would result in 100% pinnate and expressions from photo, semi-auto, and full auto. would be an excellent way to hunt for the best plants compared to an f2 from a regular male.

edit – freakshow auto [ female ] x any random auto [ male ]
f1 – 100% auto, f1 males will be ‘freaky’
f2 – 100% auto, 25% pinnate

this hunt could be done with minimal seeds if one gets lucky with male & female pairs.

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“by ‘took’ what do you mean? the f1 generation both showed semi-auto as well as partial-freaky?”

Yes,
at the time it was the only way I knew how to do it, plus them being tiny and potentially showing sex at 3 to 4 weeks made it easier to wade thru and cull.
It’s not like you’re working on the other end, looking for a certain bud structure or terps.
No matter what it’s a sh!t~ton of work and won’t do it again,
but I’ll say one more time,
all the kudos goes to Pollen Sax.

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He may have worked Cheese auto into it later.
I haven’t spoke to him in a couple of months due to old age and my disabilities flaring up.
He’s excited about spliting, doubling chromosomes using chemicals. He’s been successful at it and he’s good at anything he works toward.
Personally I can’t get interested in chemicals like that, I’ve made Colloidial Silver and fem’d some, but nature has all I need.
Thank you for the kind words earlier.

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You lost me there, I don’t see how this fits with your previous explanation: if “a” is the recessive freakshow trait, and all F1s are Aa, a F1 male would still display that freakshow trait, despite having the dominant allele (assuming it’s governed by one gene only)?

I’m sick, I might be slow :smiley:

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please share any freakshow hybrids in here Share your freakshow hybird

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sorry sometimes my brain isn’t good at translating what i comprehend into a format compatible with others. let me try again.

P1 [ freak female ] x P2 [ unrelated male ] = F1
P1 – aa & P2 – AA
the reason P2 has to be AA is because if it was Aa it would make them related [ P1 & P2 ]. the only way there could be a recessive gene hidden in the male is if you knew there was freakshow lineage in the male, correct?

when males in the f1 generation from a freaky female show up, they look partially freaky. because they look partially freaky it’s pretty fair to say that any male that doesn’t look freaky, probably doesn’t have freak genes in it.

a deduction of freakshow being [ aa ] and unrelated males being [ AA ] seems appropriate.

just be warned :wink: i have no clue what i’m talking about.

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NP, sometimes my own is not good at reading english :smiley:

Yeah indeed, I warned I wasn’t talking about the freakshow trait per se. We’ve been basically saying the same then. I like when everyone is correct lol

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One of the big time meme breeders, Masonic Seeds, just released some Freakshow crosses. Readily available and starting at forty bucks.

Masonic Seeds.

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Dangerous statement that can limit a lot your tactical perspectives in breeding.
A double recessive, RR, just answer to a pure segregation from the dominant genotype.

Traits aren’t recessive or dominant themselves in fact, they depend on the genetical status of the phenotype, inside its own genotype.

Line A : the specimens clone like shit
Line B : the specimens clone like a dream

It’s not because the good cloning perfs are recessive in A. It’s just because the specimens of A are lower in auxins than B. And it’s where the breeding really start …

Line A : low auxin phenos are always linked with a bad root mass (captain obvious …)
Lina B : high auxin phenos are always linked with an insane stretch (captain obvious…)

Low Density Roots is a dominant trait in the A.
Insane Stretch is a dominant trait in the B.

And by this you’re determining what is recessive and how it’s segregating with their linked traits. If you’re lucky and if that’s not autosomal ^^

It’s just putting your socks on before your shoes, if you think twice about it.

You’re mixing two different things : recessive genes and deleterious genes.
It’s not the same thing at all, and not necessary linked with the dominances in game.

No, it’s the adaptation of the DNA. The evolution.
Not even trough hybridization for the vegetal reign.

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Hey @crunkyeah
I looked at the Masonic Freakshow seeds they now offer and they are all using a male Freakshow in the crosses. So what are the chances the seeds carry the recessive Freakshow genes? Masonic’s seed packs are 12 seeds What would be the chance out of 12 of getting the freakshow genes? If it is so low, what would be the use of out breading with a male Freakshow at all?

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my comprehension of recessive genes is that eventually they become deleterious given enough time and genetic opportunity. is this a misunderstanding?

edit @Tao - you need a freak male to make freak seeds with a freak female :crazy_face: after looking at their stuff it looks like most of it needs to be line-bred to find the mutation.

it looks like they found a freak male and did lots of random f1 crosses - not knowing they won’t easily find the mutation that way… i would steer clear unless you want to work the line.

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