From SSeeDD to sail.. exploring SSDD, pollen chucks & Bodhi Crosses

Would the un-pollinated portions of a partially-pollinated plant still produce the way they would if the plant was sinsemilla, though? I feel like a plant that was pollinated only on specific parts still wouldn’t produce the same kind of flowers/smoke even on the parts that weren’t pollinated. But I really don’t know, just kind of wondering out loud here.

My girl and I just got totally sucked into watching a strongwoman competition on, like, ESPN9 or something haha, literally right before I saw this post, and we started wondering what would happen if you only worked out one side of your body. I told her that I’d read something years ago about amputees who could only work out with, like, one arm or one leg or whatever and that the other side of their bodies would kind of “compensate” and become stronger, despite the fact that they could only use the right side of their body. Or the left side of their body. Whatever. But I wasn’t sure if I’d read that or just, like, wondered about that at some point and came to my own conclusion haha.

She said I was wrong and I probably am.

I dunno why I’m mentioning that, but it seems relevant haha. Like, does a partially-pollinated plant compensate for being partially-pollinated by producing flowers on the un-pollinated portions that are equal to or better than a plant that wasn’t pollinated at all? Or whatever? Haha! Or does the plant just say,”Fuck it, I’m pollinated.” and direct all her energy into making seeds, even though the whole plant isn’t seeded?

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Ya I feel like I know what you’re talking about and that’s in my mind when considering manual pollination and the effort it would require.

Made up numbers but most of my seed making have been either 100% seeded or lets say 15% seeded. The 15% seeded (a branch or two) seem to at least show a better representation of the flower morphology, calyx to leaf ratio and terpenes than on the fully seeded branches.

I know DJ short said in the past that he prefers testing the effects of seeded or partially seeded buds. I haven’t run enough to answer that when it comes to other traits and am interested in a more experienced perspective as well.

In other news the males started opening today as expected


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In my experience, they do produce normal flowers on the other branches if you only pollinate one or two branches

I only see this when the whole plant is pollinated or she’s not getting enough food. Otherwise they keep pushing out fresh flowers.

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That male smell like your girls? He looks nice! ^^

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The male doesn’t smell too unusual on stem rub, maybe carrot / celery / peppery? Soup pheno? It requires a bit of force on the rub to get smell too, I definitely wouldn’t call it a stinky male at the moment. Maybe the less-than perfect health is playing a role there but I’m going to initially say it’s not a high-odor male.

Hard to describe the females but they don’t have a ton of smell either on stem rub, but the bbs male is very loud in mid-late+ flower. I noticed SSDD #2 is getting frosty fan/bud leaves right now too.

The smell I’m really hoping to find again is that coffee rubber shoe factory smell that I had in my first SSDD that I popped years ago.

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this is flower smell tho right?
I found an F1 like that. This one’s scent was slightly off from my chosen scent


But the flower came out with a chocolate coffee smell/taste :drooling_face:

Stem rub is what I mean though by smell, and the main trait I use to follow the phenos around. Spicy, carrot/celery is more what i look for myself, almost like a diarrhea smell at times :sweat_smile: I took clones of the two F2 girls I got and getting STS ready to do the thing before I shut down for the summer. I’ll come back and find a male over the fall/winter.

Everything you have are F1’s, right? And you’re making F2’s? :muscle:

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Yeah, I made a few F2s from the first SSDD (hand pollinated) that I tried but not enough to really sort through. Everything active right now are F1s. So far the triple sunshine don’t have as much early frost as the SSDDs. I’m still very curious about the triple sunshines though, especially the more tk looking one (veg). SSDD #2 is looking promising early on as well. Too early to comment on SSDD #3 as it was moved in a bit later.

I am making :

SSDD F1 (bbs mother) x SSDD F1 #1 male
SSDD F1 #2 (untested) x SSDD F1 #1 male
SSDD F1 #3 (untested) x SSDD F1 #1 male
(tk x ssdd) F1 A (untested) x SSDD F1 #1 male
(tk x ssdd) F1 C - (untested tk-growth) x SSDD F1 #1 male
(wifi 43 x ssdd) F1 - x SSDD F1 #1 male

I know that my keeper space monkey had a very identifiable stem rub that smelled like the buds (pine) and was kind of cool. I don’t trust my sense of smell enough to go on stem rub unless it’s an unusual smell. There will be more males that come along hopefully, I want as many different F2s made as I can realistically do before I get burned out on doing this haha.

Ahh, mine was pretty frosty but very leafy and buds were on the smaller size. Small buds don’t bother me but small + leafy is a nightmare for me. Ran it a few times and it doesn’t look as leafy as it was in the picture, especially on the mid/lowers. The dried flower shot is an accurate representation of the buds.

SSDD with the coffee rubbery shoe factory smell from 7 years ago or so.


partially seeded SSDD1

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Yeah, I’m getting the impression that you don’t really feel like manually pollinating haha. Just let it fly, dude! Haha. If not having any smokeable weed from this run isn’t a concern, why not just keep the male in there to do his thing?

You kind of have to decide today, don’t you? Like, right now? Haha.

Okay, cool. Good to know.

That’s interesting to me. Did he say exactly why he prefers that? And I only ask because it makes me think of my Black Triangle run, when something in the tent hermed and fucking everythiiiiiing got totally seeded. I wonder if that had something to do with the way those BT’s smoked and why I really disliked it haha.

Again, interesting. I dunno why I thought a partially-seeded plant would kind of “neglect” her un-seeded parts, but it’s good to know that she won’t.

Mmmm… Soup… haha.

That’s gotta be from the Bubba, right?

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Issues Concerning Cannabis Quality:
Seeded v. Seedless Herb, Hash, Bland Potency,
Character, etc.

I do tend to favor the experience provided by seeded vs. seedless herb, this includes the hash made from either. There are a number of reasons for this—I’ve had experience with both having raised a fair amount of seeds and sinsemilla, and the best herb I’ve ever experienced was seeded (and hermaphroditic). We must differentiate between ‘herb’ and ‘hash’.

First, the hash: I am not certain about the Afghani or the Nepalese, but I recall that Moroccan and Lebanese hashes were both made from seeded herb. I imagine that most commercial hash is produced from outdoor-grown or wild plants that would have at least a few seeds. But the best domestic hash I’ve yet to try definitely came from seeded herb.

Some of the best domestic hash I’ve experienced came from Switzerland where the Spice of Life crew did an R & D project with a few of my strains. The photo on the cover of my book is actually ‘Blue Satellite’ (not Blueberry as cited) and much of that hash came from that plant (seeded) and her siblings. Ice water extraction and the wastewater was amethyst purple colored with many (large) gland-heads found in the 160-micron bag, and there was a good amount from the 75- and 45-micron bags as well. The ‘ball’ was a marbled mix of blue/grey and gold/brown and was impossibly tacky at room temperature. The hash needed to be flattened between cellophane and placed in the freezer for a bit to be manageable. The experience was surreally pleasant under any conditions, very clear-headed and focused, yet with a well balanced, uninhibited detach—flavor of subtle sweet/savory/musky in a full-melt, clear-dome putty that left yellow oil found where the bubbles formed the day prior. Truly a master-crafted product!

From rubbings (finger and scissor) to ice water or dry sieve extraction, the concentrate from the seeded herb provided an experience superior to the hash from the seedless varieties. The difference is subtle and perhaps requires an acquired taste, but I do tend to appreciate the product from the seeded vs. seedless herb. Ways to describe it are; ‘broader’, ‘more complex’, usually more ‘calming’. Another aspect would be that seeded product causes a more ‘even’ experience, while the seedless seems to have more ‘peaks and valleys’ to its spectrum of effect. (Incidentally, the issue of ‘spectrum of effect’ is an important means by which to judge herb and hash—more on that another time.) Therefore, the experience from the hash made from seedless herb tends to be a little ‘narrower’, ‘less complex’, and usually a little more ‘up’ (depending on strain), and the experience from the seeded product tends to be ‘broader’, more evenly spread, more ‘mellow’ and complex. Again, please realize that these differences are subtle, yet in my experience valid.

As for herb: The best herbs I’ve experienced to date were highland tropical’s: Oaxaca, Colombia, Panama, Thailand—these (among others) are the places that the best herb comes from and all were seeded and hermaphroditic. I doubt that we’ll ever fully replicate the highland tropical environment, but I have hope that we will someday return to these areas and rediscover/reproduce some of these great old landraces. When we do, I’m willing to bet they will be at least somewhat seeded and hermaphroditic. One thing is for certain, the best of these landrace sativa possessed true ‘character’.

Another interesting note is that the herb I describe as ‘The Best’ tested at approx. 7% THC! Some of the Maui Sativa appeared to have reached 10%. Obviously, something(s) other than THC is (are) playing an important role in the finished product and its overall character. Which brings us to the issue of ‘bland potency’.

‘Bland potency’ is the term I apply to the effects of much of the currently commercial available ‘dank’ (bud). Overpowering, ‘stupefying’, cloudy, suppressive, ‘clenchy’ symptoms that do not lend to a very enjoyable experience, is my opinion of much of this said ‘dank’. I understand and respect the specific medical needs for such a powerful distraction. Managing strong pain meds is a good example of such need. However, the subtler character possible from high quality herb is all-too-often overlooked due to bland potency’s overbearing presence.

It’s easy to understand how this situation came to be when considering that the primary reward to the novice grower is potency. Coupled with the fact that potency is relatively easy to replicate and bolster (as is yield), the problem tends to expand as more and more enter the industry.

Another related factor is the issue of ‘bag appeal’. Bag appeal is a holdover term from the old (and current) street-dealer days. The ‘nugs’ need to look ‘dank’ especially in a shady/hastened situation.

From : https://www.icmag.com/threads/more-issues-concerning-cannabis-quality.206023/

His “judging cannabis” post provides a bit of insight as well into his preferences : https://www.icmag.com/threads/on-judging-cannabis.227039/

I take a lot (most) of what he says with a grain of salt but he does have a lot of experience that can’t be entirely discounted. I am very skeptical of his approach of introducing a highly variable and always unique psychedelic experience to the mix when judging phenos. I feel like anyone who has sufficient experience with psychedelics would see some glaring issues with that when thought about for a while.

Another consideration, as mentioned in my book, is the possibility of testing the effect of a variety of herb during a mild psychedelic or meditative experience!

Nothing like procrastination & indecisiveness to force your hand and make decisions for you aha

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Haha, I found it funny that even DJ was complaining about the ‘cookies’ of his era.

IME, the seeded buds will look a little different, but the un-seeded on the same plant will look normal.

I think stem rubs are a pretty good indicator of what the buds will smell like. I’m growing two Rainbow Belts x Baba Kush right now, and the stem run of one smells very very similar to the Rainbow Bells. If you can trust your nose, I’d try and follow what it’s telling you.

Looking good over here, excited to see them flower! The male flower shots are :heart_eyes:

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Yeah this is exactly what I’m seeing. I can follow the stem rub around up, down, outcross, backcross, in a line and pull out plants that will all have flowers that smell and hit the same.

Oh yeah :100: from the bubba

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Sweet! Thanks for posting that, I don’t think I’ve read that before. If nothing else, it made me think,”That’s right! I’ve got a shitload of trim in the freezer! Maybe I’ll make hash today!” haha.

Seriously, though, that is interesting. I don’t wanna make it a point to smoke seeded weed, but it’s something I’m gonna take a mental note of for sure.

True. Dat. Haha…

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Sorry, forgot to comment on this. But yeah, I agree haha! Although I will say that I don’t think it’s outta the realm to think that certain strains of cannabis mix better with psychedelics than others. I’ve noticed it myself, but it could’ve been all in my head haha. Preconceived notions, even while I’m tripping balls and all that…

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Ya I agree it’s not entirely useless, but let’s assume a breeder is more than a hobbyist pollen chucking tent grower like me. A serious breeder is probably going to have at least 50 females to sort through. I believe nspecta said he doesn’t like to run less than 100 at a time, and if he had the space ideally 1000.

How are you (the “breeder”) going to accurately gauge the effects of 50 different females through the use of psychedelics. Most psychonauts that I’ve encountered don’t actually trip that frequently, and that’s one trip a week to sample 50 females in a year. Every trip is different and set and setting play a huge role. Kind of hard to read too much into what effect the cannabis is playing in my opinion.

I’ve heard or read where he put more emphasis on his “acid test” somewhere else but can’t remember where. Maybe a video interview at some event or something. It’s an interesting component to testing out a strain but seems outrageous to view it as critical. Reeks of new-age bs and claims of special powers to me where you can easily deflect any criticism.

I definitely don’t have this ability haha.

I agree but often it seems like I don’t notice the smell until after growing it out and then stem rubbing the mother.

Interested to see how that performs outcrossed. I bet there’s some serious fire in those baba kush F2s you made also, you pop any of those yet?

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More shots of the male so I don’t look back wondering why I don’t have more images of it (like with goji male).


Triple Sunshine A

SSDD #2

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that’s a lot of acid. or shrooms. Even if you’re tripping that much, the effects of your trips are likely to change from tripping that frequently.

I do think there’s some merit to the idea, personally, I’ve smoked different varieties while tripping and was able to pick out the more subtle effects, that could be from my “enhanced” senses. You’d have to do it multiple times with the same herb, under the same settings, for any real data. Still… there’s something about certain herb that synergizes well with psychedelics, I’ve definitely smoked some weed while tripping and had complete opposite experiences, one time feeling complete bliss, the other feeling really dark sinister feelings… wether that was the herb, or the acid, or the set and setting… I have no idea.

Any psychonauts out there, tripping every week, wanna chime in? I microdose every other day, but don’t think that counts.

true, you have to have something to go from. best used as a breeding guide for mother plants you still hold, so you can do a direct comparison. But, you still need that ‘smell memory’ in your brain to go from.

I’m hoping so!

I did pop 6 Baba Kush F2s, one was runt that I culled. Here’s the five going, plus the RB 2.0 x BK, Giesel, Sour D, GG4. Getting used to coco again, we’ll see how this goes. Waiting on them to sex, flipped about a week ago.

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Thank you for posting the detailed findings of DJ Short of seeded vs no-seeded bud and hash. Very interesting.
The herb we used to get in the early 80’s was sure seeded.

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From DJs article “The Art of Selection”:

“ Does it pass the acid test? To borrow and paraphrase a disclaimer from Dr Hunter S Thompson; “I cannot condone drug usage, but I must admit it has worked well for me.” In particular, the psychedelics (entheogens, entactogens, and hallucinogens included) are paramount as a testing tool when breeding fine quality cannabis. A favored testing formula of mine involves preparations being made days in advance. One needs to have a perfectly cured sample of the herb one wishes to test ready at hand before the test. Fasting (from substances primarily, but also some foods) and cleansing (exercise, sweating or sauna, re-hydration and meditation, etc.) are employed for a period prior to the test. This is to as fully as possible re-calibrate one’s baseline state of consciousness to its most basic, clean state. A time is selected, a toast made and the trip material is ingested. I generally like to eat a simple meal of soup or juice and bread after I ingest a substance and before I begin to alert (first noticing the effect of a substance). Do not ingest any herb, or any other consciousness-altering substance until after one has alerted, preferably prior to the peak of the trip. Ingest only a small amount of the herb to be tested at first, one toke at a time, unless this is a follow-up test and one is already familiar with the experience. Ideally, the psychedelic substance will further the range of noticeable subtleties by one’s psyche and allow a broader appreciation of the effect from the herb. An herb that is truly powerful and pleasant will usually profoundly express its experience upon the opened mind. That is, if the herb is truly blissful it will become more readily apparent under such psychedelic examination. Likewise, if the herb is somewhat “panicky” or “anxious” in experience, the psychedelic will exacerbate these qualities as well. I am assuming, and offering fair warning, that those who attempt such a test are well-experienced psychic travelers. That is, all necessary considerations of set and setting must be satisfied before attempting such a trial. The psychedelic substance almost seems to act as a sort of mental catalyst when combined with herb. This combination is able to cause both desirable and undesirable traits of the herb experience to become more so apparent to the initiated mind. These are some of the techniques, selections and considerations that I employ when breeding fine quality cannabis. Famed horticulturist Luther Burbank’s quote: “select the best and reject all others” is the single most important aspect to consider. With time, focus and patience the knack for recognizing desirable and undesirable traits becomes more apparent. Having an open and curious mind, along with a developed sense of intuition, is beneficial. May your ventures be fruitful.”

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Amazing photos and plants as always, I really enjoy those close up shots of your flowering male. Do you have him in the same sized pots that you run the females in? He is definitely bushing out!

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Thanks and glad to have you here, hoping I can find a frosty male like the SSDD you found in this pack! Ya the male and females are all in the same size pot but the male is a seed plant in that pot (not from cutting) and substantially more root-bound. 7"x7"x9" hydrofarm 1GAL pots.

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