just another reason why possibly the most lifechanging legendary weeds were inbreeds, rather than outcrosses. But lets not conclude, let it open.
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better not to use phylos for emperical conclusions
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after 8 generations i think even a hybrid would show low variation.
but i check if i see any correlation between the most legendary sounding landraces, i think sumatra tuk tuk is also on phylos, lets check em…
And WOW does it match with what i suspected and even told to @upstat…
First: the most amount of low variation is all from SE Asia.
then: you find slightly lower Variation in the Zambian samples (Zambia isrelatively close to Congo)… Just a bit…
But not so special… But still lower than other African Regions samples .
then: and this is insane. I told upstate, i seen Jamaican that looks more like an inbreed than outcross, and BOOm, Jamaican Sample shows low Variation…
Also: One Nicaraguan Sample showed as low Variation as the most extreeme SE asia Samples , namely zero Variatioon. As low as SE Asia…
The regions where Tripweed was found, SE Asia, Mexico and Congo correlate alot with low Variation check yourselve, click on David Watsons Samples mostly. Peace
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A possible evidence that Phylos data migh be real:
PLEASE PEOPLE NO FIGHTS; AND STAY KIND, I KNOW PHYLOS MIGHT STEAL DATA TROUGH SAMPLES; BUT THE GALAXY IS INTERESTING.
I compared multiple Skunk No1`s, they had a very similar reading , but one Samples Reading stood out totally. It showed almost pure landrace…
It did surprise me, so i read the description again, and it was looking almost intentionally, that the Name of the Sample was Skunk 1, but in the Description he has written very hidden that it could have been a random Seed, cuase he misslabeled it…
See:
Skunk 1 Dave Wattson, most samles show similar readings like this:
But one Sample Named Skunk 1 showed almost pure Landrace (name of Sample in the Header):
So i read Description of this weird Sample:
So, what i wanna tell, IF Phylos really just read the Samples Names they recieve, and draw in the Data as they think it should look like, then they have done a good job reading EVERY Description of how many Samples? 100000? , and they have decided to draw a Reading that most people would not expect… i mean they could gone the save way, as it says in description it could be anything, and could just drawn in a bit of skunk, but no, they almost drawn into a LAndrace Reading…
This example almost gave me some confidence the readings may be right. I almost guess that the guy who sent this sample tried to test em, and it looks like they atleast didnt mess up…
Phylos also states the name of a Company that does the Measurements (not they themselves, its an university that they named), it would be interesting to actually ask them what they say to the alligations that the measurements are fake.
Romano, if you want real genomics data go check out Medical Genomics by Brandon Mckernan. @medical.genomics on IG.
He exposed the flaws in Phylos. Also, he does real testing without the bias and agenda of Phylos.
His company is too notch. He even sequenced the CV19 vaccines and showed how it has human dna in it to self replicate within our bodies. Really serious science.
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does he tell that the Data is wrong? or did he only expose they steal data, wich i can believe, but again, did he tell anything about the data?
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can you point out some examples of where he discusses the flaws in Phylos’s methodology and analysis methods?
yes, please.
Sorry, this was a few years ago when @Sungrownmids on IG talked about it. Like, 2017 era.
does he tell that the Data is wrong? or did he only expose they steal data, wich i can believe, but again, did he tell anything about the data?
Latitude correlates with Landrace Genetic, you find it in this Study:
Also, they found that Temperatures werent the main reason for this correlation, but the Daylenght was.
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they also mentioned in the study they were surprised how strong this correlation is , and they would expected human breeding and trades to influence it more…an exerpt from the study:
Haplogroup distribution frequencies shifted smoothly along latitudinal gradients and the three lineages distinctively show a high-middle-low latitude distribution pattern (Figure 1). Based on the RDA analysis and ANOVA partition (Table 3), 15 out of the 20 tested BioClim variables had a significant (p < 0.05) relationship with haplogroup distribution frequencies for all the 43 populations (Table S2). This result indicated that climate obviously affected the genetic distribution of Cannabis populations. When the redundancy factors were removed, only MDL (Mean day length), Bio2 (Mean diurnal range), Bio8 (Mean temperature of wettest quarter), Bio13 (Precipitation of wettest month), Bio14 (Precipitation of driest month), Bio15 (Precipitation seasonality) formed a minimum subset of climatic variables. Based on the ANOVA analysis, MDL was the most significant factor influencing the haplogroup distribution frequencies (r 2 = 0.6024, p < 0.001), and the subset of 6 climatic variables totally explained 74.2% of variation, and MDL accounted for the largest fraction of the total explained variation (20.8%).
Hmm; I’m honestly not sure this can be done outside their naturalised environment. Any changes are going to affect the end results so that the best that can be hoped for is an approximation. I think another key thing is the number of plants that are used for ‘preservation’, in their natural habitat the landrace may have evolved among thousands, tens of thousands of plants so that the plants have a commonality but also significant genetic diversity. The very moment a particular plant is selected it is a no longer a real representation of the original population… none of these so called ‘landrace’ seeds available commercially are a real representation of the original, simply because they don’t ever come with the original environment they evolved in.
Long term the problem is that farmers the world over are always going to be looking out for the most commercially viable plants… if a farmer in some isolated rural region of the world somewhere gets access to genetics with more commercial appeal then all but the smallest percentage of hard core traditionalists are going to jump at it… and really it only takes a few years and the landrace that has developed over decades, centuries even, is suddenly no more.
The solution maybe is collecting them from the original source and freezing them in a vault somewhere for the time when we get to the rapidly approaching genetic singularity of perfectly potent and bat shit boring sameness. Failing access to a vault under the Greenland ice cap, the best thing that can be done is to grow as many plants as possible and to then open pollinate them…. So throw all your instincts to chose the best phenotypes out the window and let them go for it… the trick then is to work out how it can be done in a ‘distributed’ way… perhaps multiple growers in different environments and a process of recombination?
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If say Cambodain isnt possible for preservation of Cambodian Landrace, cause still illegal , then we hae a problem .
I kinda dig what you mean with multiple enviroments/multiple growers.
But if i think further my Adaption-to-climate-Theory, then multiple Enviroments would shure “neutralize” or “homogenize” the enviroment (in contrast to choosing just one that might be unexpecteddly different to Cambodain ) .
However it would acordng my theory actually create either
- a Kinda Haze, cause if you use say Middleamerican and Southeastasian, and Indian as Land of reproduction … or
- if recombying each Countrys reproduction after every Seedrun, there would not be created a divergence… I beleive its a big difference. Try to follow me: Ive Seen a Jamaican Landrace once, and it didnt look like a hybrid of Indian x Jamaican, it didnt look “Hybrid”, it didnt look “Fierce like a Hybrid”… It looked like a genetic that isnt Crossed… So, in other words, i think it was simply Indian Landrace taken to Jamaica, in other words the Enviromental stimulus has changed from Indian Landscape to a Jamaican Landscape…
(i made this Theory based on believing the people who said Jamaican “Landrace” is a very new Thing, and there was no weed before wich point in Time again? cant remeber) . Its simply a theory, and im not very firm believer in it…
So, if you recombine different Enviromental Stimuli after every seedrunn, there cant really be that Hybridisation-like fierce Quality …
HOWEVER: i beleive its more save to choose just the closest to original Enviroment… For Cambodian, i would probably choose Thailand, i beleive an Eviroment has this much more precise “Stimulus” than people think…
This is all specualtive, but is what i beleive… so i think i would rather choose the closest to original enviroment where its legal /or possible to reproduce thosands Plants…
An enviroment that has brought up similar Qualities of similar degree…
Yes and store each generation as perfect as human possible… coupled with high quality storage in different Vaults, till it may be one day legal agian in Cambodia…
Theoretically its a joke of an undertaking for oldworld Folks, they didnt have globalisation with Ships bringing tonns of Goods from all over the world… Its simply reproducing Plants in high numbers in a very unique enviroment such as Cambodia… probably some divergence of Microclimates inside Cambodia wich is also part of it, probably a certain amount of Seedexchange,…
So, yeah. as you see, i also believe few seeds in circulation are “unchanged”. i see it as impossible things stay alive authentic , just with a couple repros, nomatter if done by reeferman, or whoever…
… so those above, are my plans and last solutions for the worlds old landraces,… just need piles of money to go to Thailand and reproduce the trippy Cambodian 
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Do you think you could sense the difference in Effect between your first generation VB, and the couple generations later?
Undoubtedly, though not so much effect as morphology, gradually more consistent, which is to say ultimately yes, less diverse. I guess its the competing goals of breeding vs preservation… I’ve kept seeds of every generation along the way and still have some of the first generation, but it’s not long before you end up with a lot of seeds in storage, and that’s just for one variety! I’ve always felt sharing is one of the best forms of preservation, though the flip side there is that’s how the land race varieties become polluted and lost. so idk man. It’s a dilemma for sure.
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well regarding too uch uniformity:
i have an old Line, that have gone trough unknown amount of Generations, and it shows big variation. From 14 to 22 Weekers…
All i know the guy mentioned its about entourage Effect. He also selcts…
So i assume he selected for a variety of Traits.
i dont know did he pollinate the various keepers in a Generation all together. Or did he pair Same with Same (indicaPheno with IndicaPheno, SativaPheno With SativaPheno) .
the latter would be more work , but is not impossible at all… Its just interesting to think about…
Well, i dont see a community each growing 10 plants, and 100s of people doing it as a very reliable approach. It does the Job of saving many lines of Dying to share, and should always be done incase someone gets f__cked…
But i see the 100 people i mentioned would in an Ideal World put their savings together, and one Guy would then doo the Job of reproducing the Line . Its the same amount of money involved, just that one guy does it in the end… Fundraiser type operations…
I mean thats how the unrestricted legal Species are already “handled”.
Funfact, these Seedbanks like per example Gartersleben Germany also do it with Cannbis Strains…
Not so fun, even they do a rather simplistic approach and just open pollinate (i heard that if i remeber right) … Or the opposite, and they bottleneck the line…
The knowledge what actually to doo is already there…
But seldon the money or the truely passionated persons are at work…
Didnt one of my Papers in the thread have concerns about this practice… he told basically told that special interbreeding-between two similar regions Races might be what is important in preservation/eg. that climate is a part of the deal eg. that special combyning-methods are important… Atleast he specualted it must be studied, and not overlooked…
So, it would be ahead of even most old-Seed-Seedbanks methods to consider selection, enviroment…
Its just costly, but mostly the laws or bureaucratic restrictions are in our way…
its not that we have no clue what would probably come the closest to perfect imitation…
Does anyone know if there is a quick cheap method to analyse 1000s of plants , wether it catched foreign pollen?
would be a gamechanger, that way one could try find a really lonely hill, and test each Plant when re-reproduced the next time…