See thats why i tagged you @JoeCrowe you know your goals and youre working hard towards it. Very specific and specialized.
1 Like
Thatās the end goal for sure is get it breeding true. I gathered all the shortcuts from the minds of breeding experts. hah hah crazy mofos like Collin and skunkman sam. Got the speed breeding study. I just have to finish bringing the third strain online. Iām using female hybridization like Collin said to speed things up even more. Then according to the genetics experts I have to self it like 6 times for stability after I find the unicorn. Itās easy if you say it fast 
6 Likes
Ohh, that would turn into some wierd plants! 
After S3+ youāll get a lot of sterile pollen and other reproduction mutations, even of the initial cultivar is highly heterozygous.
Pz 
4 Likes
Like irene? Lol
Yeah so easy! I love this process kinda like fishing never know what you are going to bring up sometimes and then that surprise. Gambling High maybe? Well I hope you can do it and through the process make it teach you something you can share with the rest.
2 Likes
Iāve never run anything with that plant so I donāt have any clue. But selfing is a blessing and a curse at the same time and Iāve never had much success after S3. Going this deep into selfing isnāt about creating a homozygous line of awesomeness. Itās about to lock traits down for creating a true F1 hybrid outcross.
Pz
4 Likes
That one?
Yeah thanks the experts to make it as easy as a cooking recipe, what would we do without them 
3 Likes
Observations correct? Now with an observation comes a hypothesis or make like a spear 
1 Like
Just a funny observation about how some plants like irene or triangle kush are stubborn and near sterile as you said.
2 Likes
It was recommended to me by this guy who was a āgenetics expertā. Now hereās the thing, right? He could be so full of shit. lol!
Definitely! Speed things up where ever possible!
3 Likes
He left me his name a contact info, so I can hit him up and say heās full of shit. 
orrrā¦ Tell me more MR genetics expert?
4 Likes
Well, Iām sure he already bred that himself to S21. Heās just teasing you.
Maybe if you are up to his expectations with this little homework, heāll hand you some beans that would turn potatoes into washable 
without any miss. But you just donāt know that yet.
1 Like
I guess if we are talking about other plants that are monoecious they have developed strategies to handle inbreeding depression.
Dioecious plants doesnāt have these strategies since itās not really needed and nature tend to remove unnecessary strategies through evolution.
So in theory you should be able to self cannabis much longer then S3+, but this is not what Iāve noticed it practise. If you select to inbreed wanted traits, it will go fast, very fast.
So Iām speaking from experience and Iāve stopped at S3 because when Iāve gone to S4, itās usually gone to shit with fertility issues or unwanted mutations.
At S2 you will see that the vigor is decreased and stuff to really lock in.
If you want to use selfing to lock in traits but yet keep a lot of the vigor and not run into these heavy inbreeding problems. From my experience going to S1, then I cross two females with the desired traits with each other. Then self the best one and rinse and repeat until you think itās homozygous enough. With this tech youāll do something called āselective inbreedingā and you ignore all traits except the ones you care about.
So in your case you take you best hash maker. Then self it. From those S1s you take the plants that are furthest apart, but are still heavy hash producers. Cross these two and find the best hash producers from this incross and self that one aswell.
This is if you want to use selfing as a inbreeding strategy, and it combines the filial inbreeding with targeted inbreeding.
Pz
8 Likes
The TK S1s Iāve tried are very heterozygous, so this trait in TK is not due to inbreeding. I have no idea of Irene, but from the theories Iāve read is that he might be more inbred than TK. So her fertility problems might be tied to inbreeding.
Pz
4 Likes
You ever notice any smells from roots? Not smelly from root rot or something, but roots that smell like weed? Certain plants are like this (cucumber roots smell like cucumbers) and I might be making this up haha but I feel like Iāve had phenos where there was a stronger smell to the roots when I up-potted.
Whatever it is, seems like itās an important thing to listen toā¦ 
Is that something youāre tracking/comparing all the way through the grow? Or just like the āfinalā stem rub? Sometimes it stays pretty consistent, sometimes itās changes quite a bit throughout the grow. Interesting youāve seen correlation between stem rub and how they smoke. The high is the main thing that I care about.
2 Likes
I been told that if you can get past the 5 th inbreeding you start to come out of it or go full sterile. Donāt have any idea; canāt be done with reptiles and birds I think full sterile after 5?
I wonder if monoecious have a higher cross-over mechanism or is something that drives the machinery not being depressed as much. Full on conspiracy shit going on here.
I think the plant is bipolar and switches faster than a stop light in a jam! Monoecious or Dioecious hmmm? Bi-sexual AC/DC baby
i might salvage a cut on the outdoor one going on and try to get her cleaned up before infesting the tents but i lost the indoor one
3 Likes
speaking of salvaging, I could use some advice on a fuckup that I donāt have prior experience with.
the lights were off in my propagation tent for like 4 or 5 days and I didnāt notice because I was watering during the scheduled dark period. Any ideas for how to recover the plants? itās a bonsai and some freshly rooted clones. The bonsai is showing bleached new growth.
is it likely to recover on its own once the photoperiod is back to normal?
5 Likes
id say it should but its all a matter of circomstances
3 Likes
The hormones and enzymes in the root zone does smell, so Iām not surprised that you have stumbled upon this.
This is not something I take into account when selecting plants though.
When I look at the roots, Iām only interested to compare it to siblings or if itās in a filial line, previous generationsā¦
The idea to look at the roots of siblings is to find the pheno who can supply the photosynthesis and transpiration with the most amount of water. Which translate in higher amount of metabolites for the plant to produce mass, hormones and chemovar precursors etcā¦
@Cactus I have to check my notes, but I canāt remember goes beyong S4 and it wasnāt from the lack of trying.
Youāre on the right track with the idea that monoecious plants may handle inbreeding better than dioecious ones. Monoecious plants have mechanisms to mitigate inbreeding, like genetic redundancy (sometimes more gene copies or polyploidy), efficient DNA repair systems, and even occasional outcrossing. Some also delay selfing until necessary or use partial self-incompatibility to reduce the risks. This allows them to self-pollinate more successfully without going sterile as quickly as dioecious plants like cannabis, which are more sensitive to inbreeding.
Pz
5 Likes