@pookie123, ya didint read samethin similar in “The Dogs House”? Probable, Original Haze is a 3XColombian cross, with samethin like Dorada de Santa Marta X Punto Rojo X Mangobiche.
N later, Same Skunkman experimented crossin it with other landraces like thai, mexican, etc…
OldTimer’s Haze
I don’t know… Did I read something similar about the origins of haze? Is that what you meant? I did read a story about the origins of Haze somewhere online but I don’t remember where. If that’s what you are referring to I’m not sure? I do know that you have talked about Punto Rojo though… On that note I would love to eventually grow some Punto Rojo “red dot”! 
How about Oldtimer’s Haze?
Hi @MiG,
In my memory, Oldtimer’s Haze might be not exactly pure Original Haze. I guess I read from mrnice-forum but not sure since I cannot track the source for this. 
However, many growers report Oldtimer’s Haze remind of Original Haze or identical to it, so I believe regardless of the exact genetics of Oldtimer’s Haze, it has really similar/same genotype to Original Haze.
SamS passed Original Haze seeds to three breeders in the Netherlands each Nevil (founder of “The Seed Bank”), Wernald (Positronics) and Eddie (Flying Dutchmen) in the 80’s.
Nevil didn’t inbred Original Haze for preservation so it only remains as Haze hybrids. While Eddie from the “Flying Dutchmen” inbred Original Haze to preserve in pure form.
Eddie inbred a lot to keep a pure form of Original Haze, but I believe due to inbred it became inferior and many reports indicate that Flying Dutchmen’s The Original Haze is not interested as others’ pure Haze.
Tom Hill’s Haze is actually from Wernald’s stock and Tom didn’t stabilize it due to preserving the genetic diversity of Original Haze. Even though, Tom already mentioned that one needs to pop a lot of Tom Hill’s Haze seeds to find out the true winner, I think Tom Hill’s Haze is the best bet to find out the best pure Haze.
One love
I got 7 OTH seeds from ACE, little luck with germination (1 out of 4 so far). 3 more seeds to go. Me encantaría probar esta sativa.
I do, and I don’t doubt that Haze has Punto Rojo in it, just as I am certain Big Herb’s tale is equal parts Haze history and legend. As so much of the Haze story is.
Two things tell me Herb has never seen a Haze plant and has never spent any time in the Santa Cruz area.
Cannabis varieties may have reddish stems, but none have red “sap”. If Herb had spent any time around live cannabis rather than Washington Square Park dime bags he’d know how silly this claim is.
Huh? This is just magical thinking. How does falling on the ground improve a seed plant’s performance?
Who the f**k says “the Cruz”? It’s like whenever someone refers to San Francisco as “Frisco”. Frisco is a town in Texas. No one in the SF Bay area uses “Frisco” let alone “the Cruz”. Strictly tourist talk.
I think the truth is less magical and heroic than the Haze tales. In the late 60s and 70s, the wide-open Central and South American field-grown mj markets were starting to feel pressure from US authorities. Smugglers started re-thinking the risk-reward of smuggling vs. growing. Indoor growing wasn’t even a thing yet, and seedbanks didn’t really exist. So smuggler-turned-growers planted what they had, like a farmer planting last year’s seed corn. Only, some of that seed corn was composed of the best Central and South American weed making it to the States at the time, Columbian Gold, Colombian Red (Punta Roja), Alcapulco Gold, etc.
As line growers do, they collected open-pollinated seed from the best plants each year for a few seasons. The best of these lines became Haze because the best pot dealers were always good marketers and Jimi Hendrix had put out a song called Purple Haze about the strongest, most psychedelic LSD around at the time, and calling their pot Haze was good marketing.
Sensimilla technique was just coming into the culture at the time, so it’s no doubt that many Haze buds were sold with some seeds. Additionally, the typical higher frequency of intersexuality of sativa varieties no doubt helped ensure seeded bud was sold, and many different folks came to hold Haze seeds.
Even Herb admits the original breeders and the “Haze Brothers” who never called themselves that weren’t really breeders at all, just traditional line farmers. So the strain was never stabilized, or even isolated, from the larger Central and South American landraces they originated from.
“Original” Haze is probably best described as a Central California coastal landrace sativa, more a family of related genotypes than a single strain. Which makes all the Holy Grail-chasing for the “original” a bit silly to me, like folks who pined for a Beatles reunion until there weren’t enough Beatles left to fill a phone booth.
Haze to me is more genre than a strain, a collection of breeding values and traits that is focused on cross-breeding tropical mountain sativas, eschewing indica in order to preserve the clear, energetic high that these sativas are famous for. That brings many compromises, one being that the strains are not bred for indoor cultivation. One of the main focuses of my work is trying to acclimatize Haze hybrids to indoor environments without sacrificing the family’s best traits.
-b420
Hi @Baudelaire,
I heard about red sap from Hawaiian landrace as well. Well, there is no actual Hawaiian landrace but I mean which has been assimilated Hawaiian outdoor for a long time. Moreover, “plants” may have red sap characteristic. I’m sure that cannabis is also one of the plants so it could happen, of course.
In my opinion, it’s out of topic and just being aggressive to the person who wrote this, not the idea.
Yeah sure, I agree that Haze is genre than a strain, but Original Haze meant the specific Haze, which made out NL5/HzA, NL5/HzC #1, #122, etc. I think it is called as Original Haze because it is most famous Haze that survives for the longest time. Isn’t it fair enough to give a specific name? It makes easier to indicate it for a person like me. I mean OG Kush is also genre but there are so many different names for it, even Bubba Kush. People name it for a different cut as well.
In my opinion, it is for making easier to distinguish and put a good name like true, original, etc on their own lovely mother plants.
One love
Two packs of Cindy 99 for the first unaltered pic of red sap coming from a cannabis stem. Anybody?
There’s a lot of myths in the cannabis world. None more so than those surrounding Haze. I am aggressive about the truth and those who claim it without merit. I was just pointing out that the writer’s use of regional labels belied his lack of personal experience with the region. After all, in his own words he says he’s a New Yorker that discovered Haze in the early 2000s in New York City. Anyone who was around for the original Hazes of the 70s will tell you that any Haze floating around NYC in the 2000s likely had little to no original Haze in it at all. His knowledge and experience with the strain are third-hand at best.
My point about Haze family vs Haze the strain is to point out that arguments about “real” and “original” Haze lack merit, as there was never a single Haze strain, but rather several selections of locally acclimatized mountain sativa hybrids grown in the Santa Cruz region that over time became known as Haze. Hence the green and purple and silver phenotypes, and the huge variability among individuals that many have reported for decades. Even Shantibaba says that growers need to expect to grow multiple Nevilles Haze plants before finding the right phenos that will deliver satisfactory product - this after decades of breeding the line.
All of this points toward Haze as a multi-strain, multi-breeder family of sativa hybrids that share similarities rather than an isolated strain bred by a single breeder. So don’t worry about finding the original Haze. You can’t. The time has passed. It’s both nowhere and everywhere to be found. Go make some of your own.
-b420
Have you seen Bodhi Dragonsblood line? Red sap is a trait that appears to be passed through the male line. Dragonsblood is Hawaiian Sativa × '88 G13/HP.
Does this work? Please say yes. Haha
www.rollitup.org/t/bodhi-seeds.518143/page-1815#post-13937373
The is picture is Jeff´s, from Great Lake Genetics.
From another site, same strain: https://www.icmag.com/ic/newreply.php?do=newreply&p=7111090
Source: Click here for Afropip Durban Poison, and GN Thai Stick or don't. I dont care. | International Cannagraphic Magazine Forums
You still have my safe address? 
@ReikoX, he probably does, sadly I beat you to it 
I can share of course.
No but I grew my first Hawaiian Sativa in 1996, never seen red sap. I’m always ready to be educated, but repeating a claim is not the same as proving a fact. Got any pictures?
There are pictures in the links above, one coming from a reputable vendor (Jeff, from Great Lake Genetics) and a grow of dragonsblood, ReikoX also provided some. In the Pot Cast Bodhi mentioned how he has been working this trait and would like to use it as a marker of his work. I think he has taken the line to F5 or F6 where most are coming with the trait and pass it through the male.
A post from Bodhi himself. https://www.icmag.com/ic/newreply.php?do=newreply&p=6897135
Very much looking forward to growing your Cindys!
Looks like a pack each. I’ve got a strain that bleeds purple, although I wouldn’t call it sap. I’ve seen red as well as lime green from an Hawaiian variety back in 86. Still haven’t smoked any of it yet.
So consider me schooled. Send me a PM with your details gentlemen. Bodhi’s pic is the strangest, no outward cyanosis on the stem but red on the interior. I’m going to have to research this more. Why does Bodhi want to select for it? Are there advantageous paired traits that come with it?
I think it’s just a weird anomaly that showed up that is kind of cool. Not sure he is moving on with the statement he has so many irons in the fire, but we’ll see.
I’ll ask him about it next time we chat.
Oh, I forgot you two are close, great! If anything, it would be a very cool trademark for his work (we have just seen how rare it is), provided that it does not come with dominant negative traits.
Don’t worry, I don’t have any interest in collecting old genetics. Just couldn’t understand your negative attitude toward another person without considering his/her effort. I will stop arguing about this with you.
One love
I just sent him an email. Wasn’t gonna call with the Emerald cup coming up in a few days and I know he is super busy getting ready for that. I’ll report back when he hits me back.
