Not to get too pedantic, but there were no apples in the Americas prior to Europeans’ arrival. I didn’t know they had combined a nomadic lifestyle with an agrarian one. It makes me wonder if the Agricultural Revolution in Asia Minor (Turkey now) also happened in phases, and over many generations.
What does GH stand for?
Presuming Green house.
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Thank you.
Not pedantic at all, you are correct! I should have said crabapples, specifically the American or Sweet Crabapple, Malus coronaria. Cultivated apples or malus domestica definitely were introduced, though I’m not convinced it was Europeans in the normal story of it, more likely Basques or Vikings in their early journeys to the East Coast of North America, though I’m open to Chinese introduction through early journeys to the West Coast. Native American crabapples are more like the wild Central Asian malus sieversii that cultivated apples were bred from. There’s research at the moment looking into whether the crabapples of America might be so good because of this kind of food forest cultivation, it is quite conceivable that indigenous peoples of the Americas did the same sort of selection or breeding toward a larger more edible fruit and the theory is that’s why the distribution of Sweet Crabapple in the US tracks the band of heavy native settlement and trade interactions just under the Great Lakes:
Similarly, malus angustifolia might have been selected and spread by southern indigenous peoples throughout the black soil belt:
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Some people here still cultivate crabapples for the pectin. That’s why the first settlers cultivated them. Interesting that squash, cucumbers, tomatoes, chili peppers, corn and potatoes are all also from the Americas. Unless I’m mistaken, squash, pumpkins, melons, cucumber and a number of other food plants are descended from the same genus or family of gourds. Corn was bred from a grass called teosinte. Tomatoes, potatoes, tobacco and peppers are also nightshades (solanaceae).
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Cucumbers actually come from India, we have wild cucumber but that’s a very different plant. The biggest thing in the Americas after teosinte was bred into corn (probably the greatest successful plant breeding project in history, the current theory being that it was the product of an entire civilization working together for a century to do it) was definitely the importation of the Three Sisters agricultural and cultural complex around the year 1000 AD from southern peoples who carries that North from Central and South America where its history is even older.
The nitrogen-fixing properties of beans changed everything, along with their mycorrhizal benefits when planted as a companion crop.
The Three Sisters of Indigenous American Agriculture | National Agricultural Library.
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I live in the biggest belt of those apples in NY.Those are the scraggly trees left in the sides of farmers ditches and fields I’ve hunted all my life up here.Those apples get almost purple in fall during the frost and the deer will tackle you to get at them.Some of them make good pies and Amazing hard cider kind of like the old Johnny Appleseed heirloom apples.I used to eat them off the tree good sugar content after the frost.
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During the colonial times, apples and apple cider were actually currency for some. Apples were and are a very valuable crop. Apple orchards are also a very good place to hunt deer. Speaking of deer, the ones I saw when I lived in upstate NY were MASSIVE.
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That wood dried and cured right then soaked again with water makes a good smoking wood for smokers.We used it all the time for smoking salmon in a lemon juice brown sugar brine.Excellent glazing wood
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It’s a shame that the Lenape dad focusing on autos, not the family treasure. I’d imagine some of the elder farmers of the tribe have some unique stories to tell. This portion of the thread has me pondering the early American Colonial history, a potential source or fork in the genetic road. George Washington, Sam Adams, Jefferson and the crew.
“Dean Norton, director of horticulture on the estate, says Washington refers to hemp 90 times in his diaries. In the 1760s, when the price of tobacco plummeted, he considered diversifying his farm and looked into hemp growing. .”
George Washington had a friendly acquaintance in the Moors and the Sultan of Morocco, Sidi Muhammad bin Abdallah. It’s not a stretch of the imagination to picture Washington getting hashish and seeds from Morocco via the Potomac river.
The Moroccan–American Treaty of Friendship negotiated by Thomas Barclay
in Marrakesh, and signed by American diplomats in Europe, Thomas Jefferson, John Adams with Sultan Muhammad III in 1786.
Hemp in colonial North America was of economic and strategic importance to Great Britain, the mother country. Since the American colonies existed to support the needs of Britain.
Hemp even made an appearance in Thomas Paine’s wildly popular Common Sense . Paine listed many of America’s “strength and our riches;” the first being, “In almost every article of defense we abound. Hemp flourishes even to rankness,
There were lots of HIGH people in HIGH places in early America. The dissemination of ganja seeds was LATERAL, not vertical. Indeed, the Lenape ganja may have resulted with trading and crossbreeding with other tribes and free African people that carried the seeds on their many travels. The Lenape count people of African ancestry amongst their tribal rolls.
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Check out Hoku seeds. They have a Syrian v that is a cross of syrian and Doug Varin.
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In 1779 generals Clinton and Sullivan and the Iroquois territory at the Behest of general Washington. The soldiers talk about the corn fields and apple orchards out towards the Finger lakes region. The effectiveness of the type of agriculture practiced by the Iroquois Was written about by the farmer soldiers that went on this campaign. You spoke of 15 to 20’ tall corn plants with ears of corn as long as a man’s arm and as thick as his thigh. The remains of fish were placed underneath the mounds in which the 3 sisters were grown. Many of the soldiers had tears in their eyes as they burned the fields.
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Yeah I have a bunch of those in both flavors. I’m kinda hesitant to do too much with them because I’m a little shaky on what the genetic lineage is for varin. Seems mostly speculation around the web, and probably poly.
For my purposes, I don’t necessarily need THCV. I just don’t want it to get suppressed in a sativa that I’m crossing to. It’ll be a lot easier to recover if I stick with a base genetic that already has tendencies to express it.
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Doug didn’t know either! He grew seeds sold to him as Harlequin but they had no CBD. Good THCV section in O’Shaughnessy’s Magazine Winter 2015/2016 issue, they interviewed Doug and also the breeder behind the THCV Black Beauty:
OSR12-21-Breeding-up-THCV.pdf (3.8 MB)
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Very interesting. May have to grow some of these if I can find them.
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Thanks for sharing that. It really clears up the mystery pretty well. It’s also great to see an actual picture of it from the man himself. No doubt that’s a pretty strongly sativa plant.
Afaik harlequin is a clone only, so it could be related. Maybe an outcross, or even an f2 of an outcross.
That 4:3:1 thc:cbd:thcv strain he was talking about would be really interesting to try. Very unusual.
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No doubt. Would be great experience to smoke it and get to feel firsthand what the effect is like. Sounds like a great painkilling strain.
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Ahhhhmmmm, please look me up if you do! 
@misterbee (in particular)!
Yo guys, there’s sooo much to read here on OG that I rarely have time to get by here! But want to drop a few little gems for any that haven’t already come across them. Hope they are of interest here.
One of the guys from Zomia Collective has posted a Google Doc they compiled of all the accessions from their Himalayan collecting trip;
And an interesting article on PubMedCentral on “Toward an Evolved Concept of Landrace” at;
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