yes, principially right, however…
So, its missleading in principle, however, if you are not total amateur, you would have looked up the congo description, just to check. i mean, but yes, its missleading. but not totally untransparent . could have been obvious for longterm hunters
have a brutal headache today, phylos mind opening stage later
You should get a bit of rest, hopefully your headache gets better.
Yes thats a good spot on that congo. With the bangi haze I was on about a different congo they used I think it may have been from reeferman. That one was the congo haze aka congo x ssh.
Shit! Nice discussion about ACE seeds, but I have to say, they partner with other guys, so they just repackage other guys seeds in some cases, i.e, laos muang sing its from khalifa, not ace, but ace its a reseller, it was good to see this thread, I bought some seeds from them, laos muang sing, kullu and durban from khalifa genetics, and from ace ethiopian and oldtimers haze, i’ll post it when I pop them so we can see, hopefully they are as described!
can you poit it out to me, i didnt spot it.
Crossing PCK with Malawi seems like trying to re-invent the wheel. We already have strains like White Widow and Skunk, which are both 50/50 sativa/indica crosses. They’ve also been worked for many generations, to the point where they’re both distinct genetic lines. PCK seems like the pumpkin pie spice of the cannabis world anymore: it’s good but it doesn’t have to be in everything.
Its in the screenshots i posted
@Wuachuma
Any backstory on the Ace / Mustafunk Ethiopian Highland ?
I have a pack - but not run it yet.
thx
No, i never got that one
Well, after reading all of that, i don’t feel bad at all buying “ACE” genetics from ColoradoSativas 
Here’s my BangiHaze from this evening.
Oh I know it buddy. I’m not that wet behind the ears. I use phylos mainly to see relationships between landraces if any. I agree they tweak the results, but then again David Watson and Robert Clark have been around a long time. Long enough to have pure genetics. David Watson is likely at least partially a snake but I’m not so sure that Robert Clark is.
This is why I have never crossed any modern variety into my heirloom varieties. I remember reading about them splicing something into the genepool and I had been worried that plants would be able to make no seed after 7 generations. I’m not so sure about that, but it wouldn’t surprise me to find out that genetic markers had been bred into many different strains that have been spread into the community. We are probably unknowingly spreading these markers. That’s why I buy my seeds In many cases from indigenous farmers.
I’ll have to look for my old catalog… in it they “forgot” to mention indica additions or i wouldn’t have bought what i bought.
This has been a ‘dark fear’ of mine for a while now as well.
Cheers
G
Definitely not one of my favorite things to think about… I comfort myself by reminding myself that if I’m caught growing any plants, genetics be damned, I’m probably going to jail for a decade or two. What’s the difference if they sue me for patent infringement on top of the multiple felonies just for growing my own medicine?
I think there will always be a healthy Black Market of old strains. We just need to make sure they are still around
No one can patent plants that are in the public domain, so i do not see that as a concern. However, as we continue to reproduce existing strains, the pool of genetics within the strain becomes narrower and narrower and can eventually lead to inbreeding depression. I perceive this as the bigger issue.
Ok, learnign from Phylos, GO:
note that the Name of Strain is in the Printscreen, just need to look closely:
First lets try to get a basic Impression what a “Landrace” can look like.
We have the luckk that Mel Frak sent quiet a few Samples:
He is said to have a few Landraces from the 70s, i doubt he sent in many modern Samples, probably as Comparison some… that wouldnt do him justice,
Anyway, most , not all, of his Samples show like 99 or whatever percent “inclusionfree” like that:
So, and i didnt find them before , but actually a Seedbank that collects modern Landraces sent a few Examples (indian Landrace Exchange). Most look aswell quiet “inclusion-free”, like that:
a few inclusions in some samples, SIMILAR TO Mel Franks Landraces are still in there:
There are other modern Samples from unknown Sources:
Nepal2010:
Nepal 2019:
So, i would conclude, that in the 70s, and in todays Time we find Samples with virtually no “inclusions” in most of Samples, and every 4th Sample has a tiny bit like 10 percent of the “Skunk” similarities. Thats what i most often look for. Hemp similatities in yellow , im not so shure if thats hybridisation. Because of a Panama Red74 wich was sent in showed alot of “Hemp” . And thats common believe that in old Times there Weed wasnt always for smoking, sometimes multipurposal. ITs not the main point, so… Further
Good, now all the Samples from ACEs Malawi:
Malawi #2 ACE:
Malawi Standard P2 ACE:
Old Killer Malawi ACE:
Malawi x PCK:
So, we see lot more “inclusion” in most Malawis, one actually shows pure, but most strong inclusions.
SO, Conclusion.
I saw the old Killer Malawi was the worst of all. So i was short pretty firm that this one looks worst. The others were more on that level of the 2010 2019 Nepalese Samples with like 10 Percent inclusions (for the Time beeing call it similar Levels).
Point is, i thought, well there is really much inclusion in Old Killer Malawi so i looked it up.
And first i dint find info, cause oldkiller Malawi was never sold on its own, but it is in some Descriptions.
Then i found Mustafunk explaining what is 
So, this says OldkillerMalawi was from Afropips, a pretty respected defunkt African Landrace-mostly vendor.
It also says that the same line was sold as Seedsmans African Buzz.
And that rung a bell. Because i googled African Buzz long ago, took me a while but after some Time somebody stated it MUST be outcrossed. he was very frim.Its so indica he said.
Anyway.
So, Mustafunk also sais they only had a female clone of this Afropips Line, so they litterally had to outcross it to whater. another Malawi, or hybrid…
And what the other thing was we dont know. Right? right.
So: first of all , i recall the people loved African Buzz Seedsman, i recall this very well, somebody found it quiet psychedelic… that was a certain “consenus”, i mean Afropips Lines are respected… But they just found, man this stuff is indica…
So, yeah, that alone might well explain why ACEs Malawi is so indica.
And leaves the open minded Guys with:
we dont know, wether ACE Seeds:
.
So, and people might think “those ACE Guys need to propperly spot these Fake Landrace lines” . Thats where open Mindedness comes in.
Open Minded Persons might counter and say: there is no must, nobody has to do this or to to that… because in order to dicdate whats right, or wrong for ACE Seeds to do, one needs evidence what is right, or wrong.
Atleast thats my thinking, only an oppinion of me, counting for only myselve .
So as i would say: aslong as the didnt know well enough that their Lines had inclusions when they started relasing the stuff a century ago… then… i dunno why to shout at ACE. Ok, one reason:
they lied about Banghi Haze (transparent lying). And probably about OT Haze?.
Says the Printscreen of heritagefarms? All i knew was the Banghi HAze story.
So, its for whoever reads this to think, believe whatever he does.
Oh, and for the Panama are also “inclusions” showing. i dont wanna go trough it, its pretty much a similar reading.
Somebody else shared that print screen not me.
Im not sure with this phylos bar skunk means skunk as in skunk#1 I think it means hybrid where there is a cross over of genetics. As for hemp it would depend on what sample of hemp they are matching to. So could mean anything but hemp pre 60s and earlyer some was high thc.
Does anyone know of istances in testing were phylos are testing multiple seed plants samples from one strain to see how different or same each plant shows in their charts. Because I have a suspicion that individual seed plants may show different results.
The old timer haze waskept pure though it is heavily inbred. The parent clones they use to make seeds were finaly sent back to oldtimer so he would know if they were hybridized. It is visible in that line that there are different plants put together as you can see certain seed plants leaning towards old sativas mainly colombian strains, some of those we dont see around no more.
Ace did eliminate some of the most longer flowering ones. I think its a pitty ot1 didn’t keep first generation plants from the actual seeds he was sent in clone form like nevil did maybe the line wouldn’t have been so inbred .
