Live & Reloaded


Who say aliens aren’t pretty ^^ At juvenile stage the shishka is quite present for now, at least i’ve a teaser on the F1s.


The S1 enter finally in their rush, they eat 50% PK dose and still not a single carency damned Next week i start the K+, i hope it will push them to metabolize more.

Elder son asked why i was doing the “dutch haircut” on the Big Bud spontaneously and learned a bit about cytos. He’s smart and very diplomat like his mother, i think it was to please me ^^ I take it, mission accomplished anyway.

You know what, you just found me something to calculate tomorrow morning :rofl: It will take a bit but it’s not impossible to know.

Poster downloaded, wallpaperized and maybe i will order a print for the grow desk ^^ It’s dope.Nice find.
Fuck the spanish burned us again the priority, 3 centuries in the nose damned. But on hemp we fear no one since Napoleon, even today ^^ Small consolation but i take it.

The demand generated by this trend is the new game buddy, don’t tell anyone ^^ Let’s educate some reliable mercenaries.

I’m glad, one soul saved. Now i must confess that i’m locking all my F1 (not the protos ofc) since a while. Breedbay teached me how to protect my stuff from repros quite fast, it was the jungle ^^

It’s dope, and freaking rare at a time. Generally they reject the legacy to feel “on their own”. Not complaining at all for my case, i’m very proud that he’s pushing so far at university.

I’m very tempted to try, even if i know that both companies are oriented B2B for these seeds ^^
Who know, if we land well in a day when they are all drunk and stoned … it can work lol

God yes, and it’s fucking ambivalent to live lol You feel like a semi-god full of energy, and you can do nothing. Awfull.

Old Jaguar here, a 6 cylinder frankensteinized : porsche(internal)/mazda(low engine)/ford(high engine) only for the engine itself ^^ This, in the chassis of a mondeo narrowed/clothed by jag lol

The engineers were just fucking sadists. But i’m on the finish line, i’ve just to mount the new injectors and the intake gasket and i can drive it again. It was a journey.

What’s your project (if it’s not hot to share)?

The more you work, the more quiet you are ^^ Needless to say how bored i am, retirement is definitively not for me. I’m even dreaming sometimes to return to work in a growshop. Even as a cashier lol

Back in the days I’ve made the choice of the contractors, to stay agile and moving but also because i was not only on my own. I had an investor/partner with rates, so not totally free to do what i want where i want and an efficiency % to respect. Maybe not in this exact shape, but it’s what i will advice to the fresh meat : staying independent and to work with the most wholesalers and white labels they can.

And to work with everyone too, is a failsafe. The genetic is rarely top notch, you have to know the exact batch where a new contractor give all he have to make his proofs and to get his seeds at the right time … is almost impossible for customers. A lot are working with top notch nurseries that are worth 5 digits just in clones, you don’t really have the time to maintain a library and considering the demand it’s almost useless. I don’t even speak about lines, at most you can chunk in a corner for your own stash but that’s all.

I lost my soul there, but i don’t regret one second. It’s an amazing experience that iron your methods.

  • there are obviously exceedingly competent people that exist behind the scenes.

The reverse buddy, and it’s very darwinian. It’s very not the same game that with little labels. You have industrial constraints and screwing someone is not a good idea, even one single time. You don’t earn well for nothing, it have a reason.

The game is very different in EU, very more structured around wholesalers. In USA it’s much more horizontal and very decentralized. Also you have powerful brick and mortar labels here that live only on genetics, with filials for others labels they are piloting. Like Sensi and their well named White Label if you want, but also well known breeders that act also as wholesalers or have a chain of growshops. Or both ^^

Still a little world with the same heads, one time you prove you’re reliable and not a fool, you’re quite contacted on regular basis. It’s very singular, you don’t really have the time to figure out what the fuck is happening. ON/OFF style.

They have zero R&D, at most it’s the genpool of their little hands. Not that they don’t try on regular basis sometimes, but the customers are since 20 years just an irrational horde that grow (expand) and that ask always the same things in loop. In fems ^^ So why wasting money at this … even in cups, when they invest to be on the billboard it’s mostly for visibility and not really for the genetic that won.

But you’re totally right on the context, it’s all about your ratio speed/standard. They take on site only if you’re better overall that cheap far foreign countries and if it offer logistically the luxury to be in real time. It’s why you have within the same label some line that herm like shit and other that are surprisingly far better overall. They send S1 seeds to foreign units for the low volume release and work more directly and more “locally” for high volume stuff.

Also one wholesaler can come suddenly and ask you to build an entire catalog within 6 months for what i call a “mushroom seedbank”, with starting stock. A 10-20 set with enough differences between the lines to appear worked. They have very skilled people at marketing that create amazing company profiles and pedigree from the ashes ^^, so you can have a WW x Chronic sold for a skunk hybrid lol and no one complain. Today the masses are a majority of growers that don’t know the classics. It’s totally normal, it’s the inherent effect of the democratization/vulgarization.

One time the stock is gone they just close the label until the next. Needless to say that it’s not breeding but more strain’s knowledge and a lab that run like a swiss watch. R&D to stay competitive in this context is reduced to run dominances tests in a corner to find fast pairings and equally fast to screen the best herms to act as pollen donor. For the next shots, in loop ^^

Sexy right ? lol But it’s like when you go buy your chicken at the supermarket. Everybody like it, but no one want really know how it’s made and in which conditions.

Now it’s the spectrum i know at my very little level, there is a high grade market, there is high circles i never saw, there is nurseries specialized to provide genetics (to reverse or not) when you’re in the shit … it’s a full ecosystem that is quite old and established here now.

It’s dope. From here again. We don’t have this agility here, overall. Most of the time if an employee do what you do, he’s blamed or coworkers try to get him fired lol I don’t joke.

No regret again, but if it was the same here i’m sure i stayed at the hobby state long time ago. My actual lab is quite humble, as my projects … but trust me i’ve never been so much happy with my plants.

I’ve wagons of infos like this, i just throw the ones i’m sure that aren’t a problem to share ^^

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What a sight for sore eyes.

What a shame, he doesn’t even consume it? I would’ve loved to had the opportunity to smoke one with my pops. Though, he’d cut my left nut if he had ever found out I smoked the whacky-tabacky.

I’ve never seen the movie, but I have some Hellraiser OG going in the garden… does that count?

Did someone say fan??

I apologize that recovery has been so tough. I must have forgotten about the purpose of your surgery, but I’m hoping everything went accordingly.

The new episode of The Pot Cast with Kevin Jodrey went over this scandal very well. I’m a big fan of Mr. Jodrey, although it seems he gets a lot of hate. I’d love to attend his Ganjier course if I ever have $1,000 laying around.

What meds do they have you on? You’re starting to sound delusional!

On a real note, once you recuperate; these feelings should start to wash away. Being decapacitated and stuck at home without being able to do some of the things you love would bore/depress anyone. I’ve been there.

Get well soon, mi amigo. You’ll be puffing on some good herb in no time.

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Thanks buddy for all the kind words, overall. It’s just helping.

Let’s share the backstage to warm the machine before finishing the wiki ^^. You’re seeing in this photo a lot more that it look, a kind of “zeitgeist potentiometer” lol

1 - It’s the very first time that i grow in the condition of the fools eating the fems i was producing (specially the spanish customers, that often use only one tent). And after one year, i must say that it was really a missing link for my point of view. My judgement matured a bit and it push me to muscle my game with natural seeds. I’ve to find a reliable solution (at industrial scale) to counter attack the fems domination. They destroy creativity of hobbyists and their potential. I’ve leads, and no matter how it turn at term … this exact photo was the decisive turn to modelize it ;o)

2 - I’m dialing a breeding unit that can be multiplied (as independent/dedicated unit) with toyotism in mind. Now imagine a 100sqm surface filled by autonomous units like it with the exact same system for airflow circulation, density, management … it’s what i’ve in mind each time i enter in my humble attic ^^ It’s why also this nightmare when i dialed the Static Pressure of the space and it’s also something that i can help now to mount remotely in thinking minimalism, low cost, and in mastering perfectly the constraints. Wasn’t the case before this stupid idea (soon i win the bet ^^)

3 - I’ve pushed the trigger of density just before the surgery on purpose. I wanted to see how hard to maintain the space was, diminished as fuck, and with screening and notation. My conclusion is quite hardened now : 25 specimens per 4x4 is the real sweet spot for accurate breeding/mapping, up to 50 for the more in ease of us. I thinked 100 in a very specific context but i was very wrong.

4 - I still think that the Blumat system is the only one compliant with breeding practice. But this journey teached me that it can be also a negative leverage for breeding in term of productivity. This humble picture is showing 6 constant mapping in real time. Now 6 independant units “blumated” and specialized on one line, that work at the same time on a given chronology … can make sweat a bunch of powerful labels i’ve visited, without being too much demanding on the profile of the mercenaries (not dialing 6 mappings at a time, but only one) ^^

Hand watering still permit accurate and dedicated feeding and water uptake, individualized. So the inherent shit ton of datas it can give. Complex equation on this one, and i think i can’t solve it. It’s all about the grower.

5 - I stop there before talking about cost/profits like an accountant ^^

I’m proud to be responsible of this. The both had a complete prevention on drugs of all types. As an ex punk-raver, very accurate one even on quality of products and its dangers ^^ They inherited a part of my metabolism too, which is not a gift when it belong to anesthesia and less festive stuff.

Not the “you smoke a cone, you die” style, they saw their father grow, smell and smoke weed like a train since they born. I’m extremely nazi on passive smoking and daily routine exposition for childrens, the only space where it’s permitted to smoke (anything) in my house was always the lab.

They don’t fear drugs and they developed a rational tolerance for drug users, but i’m glad to gave them the power to don’t use them as a sociologic leverage. And both don’t even use caffeine ^^ The elder like to share a fine bottle of Burgundy with me and wifey sometimes, for a birthday or a celebration but that’s all and it’s very epicurean (maybe a bit cultural too).

That’s not something we will share, even if sometimes he’s kind enough to let me talk to him about breeding (I’m in person like in OG about this, a living wall of text lol It’s even worse when i can show the plants while i explain something a blunt between the lips lol).

I compensated this in fact with a bunch of padawans in my whole journey, only one at a time. I think it’s obvious that transmission is very important for me.

It’s done by another fan of the movie, so indirectly it’s cascading on you and make you a good person.
lol

WITHOUT blades ^^ I insist
Nice one

The procedure is quite hardcore, it’s normal. I was well prevented and prepared too; i prepared this surgery since a bit more that two years with pre-cares (not pleasant ones). It’s overall a 5 years marathon if i count everything. I’ve to dial the horse.

It’s why they push to the maximum of my own genetic to reduce this period of recovery with fucking tools of future lol I invested heavily to have the cream of the crop, the whole was quite risky so i pulled the trigger “all in”. Don’t tell anyone, but god bless the fems ^^ Without them i was screwed badly. Almost a S class to put on the table to give an idea, on top to two stacked expensive insurance + french system that is not specially greedy. It’s literally investing in yourself. Plus an extra for the younger son that have been “depisted” positive when they finally found what to search. He’s a F1, so the problematic is lowered and he don’t needed surgery with the right cares. We started the cares at the same time, he finished last year ^^ Just orthodontist and kinesitherapy to modify the congenital dynamism. He’s cool for good now, i’m glad i don’t fucked his DNA and that wifey is quite dominant genetically.

I’m almost broke now lol To give you an idea, each single hypo i get cost 4 digits and i’ve at least one per week. Military stuff (USA and China use it) that is literally tailored on my DNA and the job to do. The liquid “food” i take with a syringe all days (mouth soldered for weeks) is also something impressive to live, this shit is good like finest restaurants and one little bottle is enough to give you all need for the day, with a bonus to potentialize the hypos. But each bottle cost a good menu of a french restaurant ^^

That’s the funny part of the things. I’m fascinating by it i must say and I don’t stop to ask questions to the professionals in charge of the procedure. I wasn’t suspecting this level of tech before the surgery, but it’s sadly really a “pay to win” game. I’m aware of this too, and it’s polemic in my mind.

The purpose is a congenital problematic, that have its great advantages but also its lethal disadvantages. It wasn’t possible before for the sole reason that you can’t make childrens during/after the procedure. Too risky.

It’s a multilayering problematic mostly due to my metabolism. My bones don’t have any alveolus by example, drugs (all kind) don’t print and i’m physically unable to be hooked by them, i can’t even normally OD and they gave me lethal dose of synth opiates and gas to maintain me in artificial coma during the surgery … well my body think it’s the WWII all the time for everything. Look cool but it’s a nightmare when you have medical needs even for stupid things, the number of person able to handle this are not the cheap ones in bonus. So for everyone caring a teeth or getting sewed after a knife shot is a breeze, for me it’s japanese torture of middle age.

I pass on more weird stuff, but it generated a very problematic equation at my mouth/jaw/throat space. The type that remove ten years on your lifespan, and generate increasing peak pains barely manageable. They can’t fight my condition, so they reconstructed my skull to create a space supposed to be there. Externally you see nothing (but my jaw of amstaff lol), but inside it’s quite packed. The surgery is a simple bimaxillary osteotomy in fact, but with a bunch of counteracting leverages due to my condition and a bit more screws in the bone, in in breaking three piezoelectric scalpels ^^ I’m proud of this one lol, even if for wifey it was a nightmare. She was with me all the time and the intervention was a lot more long than usual, almost a day instead 3 hours. I owe her a lot just for this day, and i still feel like a piece of shit for the care i still need daily. I can’t wash alone etc … my chance is that she’s a very professional and skilled nurse. I’m glad I found the right pearl 20+ years ago ^^

Before the surgery it was like a MMA ghost trying to strangle me constantly, even when i was sleeping. Now i’ve the impression to have a third lung and that my tongue no longer try to block my respiration. I’m even getting high just in breathing too strongly, the rate of oxygenation is boosted as fuck and it will take time to adapt.

It have collateral effects : muscle tension, bone tension, spine compensation, nerves … very cascading. Psychologically too.

The best day and the worse day of my life ^^

How look like a three digit meal actually ^^ But also where i pass the majority of my time these days, to spam OG. I’ve never been so happy to found this place than today, part of the cure, and it help me to handle the daily routine as fuck.

Fuck i digressed a lot. But make me feel better now, it’s weird. Sorry guys it’s pathetic, but i assume. It real help actually, in fact. I love the Discourse platform lol, it permit to have his cavern losted in the flow ^^

I love this guy and it’s “farmer’s” insights on the genetic problematic (specially for the Oregon game), and i’m not the kind to expect that everybody should be perfect.

Not interested by this formation but more by direct talking on equations i can’t remotely guess from here. This is typically the kind of guy that can muscle my game in professional awareness.

Not fond of the last productions in matter of podcasts etc, but everybody have to pay the bills and i can understand it. Very much ^^

The critic i have , and not even on the person, is the faith he generated in me when he popped in the scene. His federalist mind boosted me as fuck, but i don’t saw very much the positive effects of all his energy by concrete actions and dispositions. Maybe i’ve missed an episode of the journey or he share only partially his vision and what he do for it.

Anyway i’ve to catch this episode you’re talking about. Feel free to post links here bros, it’s practical and how is used the growlog to the bone lol More like a notebook ^^

Oh no, it’s not linked. For the meds i’ve a kind of “rhino meds for zoo” lol, they don’t changed my problematic with drugs ^^ I’m negative to THC blood test after only two weeks, whatever i’m smoking and the quantity, to give an idea.

Tramadol, acupan, corticoids, anti-inflammatory stuff, antibiotics, genotherapy and a fews bonus … the menu is quite dosed but it don’t affect much the mood or the mind. I don’t feel much the effects to be clear, only the weed is efficient on me overall. Nothing replace a good old blunt for me, they really get me baked. Sound like crazy with the big pharma stuff i’ve in the blood lol, but Jah is a joker i guess ^^

So i spam OG and make wikis to have the impression to be busy and to have something to do for the next day. yeah …

But the desillusion is real and pragmatic. I’m a young retired. I worked my ass off to retire a bit more than a dozen years ago, in thinking that it was the final boss of my journey. My dream. It’s very not ^^ I think i’m build to work until my last breathe, it’s just that i wasn’t aware of this and discovered it on the late, “up against the wall” like we say in French.

It’s not very negative in my mouth, i’m even happy to still learn things on myself.

Very true. OG and its good souls literally save mine for now, and help greatly to handle the weirdness of my daily routine. Joking 0% on this one.

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New era, my forced hyperactivity on OG start to be itchy in various spots ^^ And i’m too much OGv1-style to understand why, or even spending energy to understand it i must confess :smirk:

I think folks start to ask themselves wtf i’ve to sell or something in this vein lol idk
I’ve to change my strategy to cheat the daily pain, i think i will binge-write some wikis in the losted cavern instead.

For the next “chapter” i thinked about a kind of pedagogic glossary, on the same tone that the first. Explaining fast terms like “epigenetics” i use often, but also some personal slang that i find usefull.

If you have ideas for others chapters in mind, just shoot me your suggestions whatever how. I take it ^^

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glossarystuff

I have no clue atm about what will be the next chapters, but there is something sure : it’s more long and complicated for me to dodge some words that are very practical to explain a concept or a point of view.

Nothing really groundbreaking or innovative, but specialized and narrowed on a matter that matter for us ^^

It’s more to be the practical intermediate between a cold dictionary and the dirty hands of the stoners. Also to give some leads if ever one bit is stimulating or inspiring you.

It’s not with the intent to be exhaustive or academic, but more (also) to refine the grid of reading necessary to best handle what i’ve to share.

epigeneticsGloss

This term is quite bitchy to handle, conceptual and factual at a time. But it’s not hard to integrate in practice.

Simplified : It concern all indirect leverages influencing the DNA and its expressions, that is not the DNA itself. The sentence look stupid like that but it take in count also advanced cases.

For our concern it’s quite easy to demonstrate a narrowed case by the nutes. You launch a batch of 10 seeds, then during all the life of the plants you feed them without any P. The grow will be streamlined around this lack, the visible deficiency being an answer to this strong epigenetic factor.

But not only, the DNA can react to this problematic in revealing answers/expressions not usually possible to detect. Even if we got divas sometimes, cannabis in general is quite resilient.

On top of this, if the P deficiency become lethal for the line it directly influence the progeny in changing drastically the priority of the genotype, then the average of its expressions.

By extend, environmental factors are epigenetics leverages stacked : the RH, the temps, the sun/lamps density, the environmental photoperiod, the balance of the soil or the type of medium and even the nutrients used.

Of course it is necessary to relativize the torque of this leverage. A drastical absence of P don’t have at all the same effect that just a variation of a couple of degrees of temps. Both are epigenetics leverages in the absolute, but only one is concerning us : the drastic change.

Another drastic leverage is simply pest and diseases, because it’s enough strong to imply the chance of survival of the genotype concerned.

The way i push here the herms to declare fast without really torturing the plants can also be considered as an epigenetic factor. I’m not selecting specimens directly, i just reunite the conditions to favor their expressions faster. It permit to cull them earlier and/or to don’t have surprises at the last minute.

The rules implied by the traits you’re working mechanically this way are inherent to the strain, you have to test, to adapt and to refine. It’s not magic.

In practical breeding, it can be compared to the gearbox of a cars for the selection. You can multiplex various leverage around a trait to increase a pressure that will be capped with only one factor. Like simply hardening off clones or seedlings : restricted root area + root booster + 24/0

DomRecess

These two terms are quite used in our community but not often well considered when they are extended to groups and generations, with breeding constraints. The goal here is not to fall in the cascading considerations of the mendel laws, but more to enlighten a bit the terms themselves.

The power of these two terms is their versatility. It can apply to a trait, to a combo of traits, to a specimen, to a subgroup of specimens but also to a whole line in front of another one (outcross or not). Making it highly relative to what you’re considering.

Also it’s picturing more a dynamic, a movement, than a binary status or a strict condition. To keep it simple again, I will use a simple dual notation for the example : D(ominant) and R(ecessive).

rootdominance

They are Big Bud S1 of the same line, if it wasn’t the case this notation will not be relevant.
In watching the root mass, one specimen clearly show a singularity while the others are almost streamlined on the same level of density.

It’s saying, at the level of this trait, that a given density of roots is dominating the line. And that high density root masses are recessives. Because it’s at the level of a single trait compared, we can’t determine the sense of the dynamic. Beware of this trap.

Another layer is necessary to understand the dynamic, and the most useful with cannabis is the global shape. It ask a bit of training, but it will inform you on the sense of the dynamic you’re watching at low level.

If the root mass R is contained in a specimen that show a dominant shape D widely shared, it mean that the dominant phenos are globally slightly drifting to a point by their instability on this trait.

Are the “lesser” phenos following positively the R root mass or the reverse, decreasing globally their root mass ?

You have a large panel of tools to determine this but that mostly consist to find traits that are linked with the root mass condition. The “linked traits” that you’re hunting to elevate the accuracy in selection.

At the begin it’s more easy to handle in keeping the notation simple like the example. Better to cumulate simple notations on multiple traits that juggling with complex ones not yet enough obvious for you.

With enough mileage (personally but also on the line), it’s necessary to give more elegance to this notation and to use different levels.

A very pronounced expression like the 1st specimen on the left, will take more a RR notation.
The 4th and 5th specimen from the left being the less dense, will take more a DD notation.

With cannabis i find relevant to use up to four level of notation per status, simply because the complexity of the final product. We still breeding blunts and their quality of smoke, a quality that is totally artificial just like the hash we make from it.

For convenience, you can mix capital letters and lowercase and cumulate them. For the R it will give then four level of notations : RR, R , Rr, r. That will picture the torque of the recessivity when you need more elegance in your notation.

It’s rarely necessary when the true segregations are still recompiling the genotype, when you still close to the F1. But when the IBL start to be quite advanced, it’s becoming more and more a question of nuances and you need a tool adapted to this level of accuracy.

You can also have specimens representing a blend of the two conditions and that you can note DR, Dr, dR, dr … but i advice you to ignore it until you really need the mendel laws to muscle your selections.

Overall keep it simple and the most natural possible for you, until you feel capped. Then add very progressively a new layer in your method. Don’t rush directly with a full notation of dominances, it ask a couple of seasons full time to be enough in ease to handle nuances without generating your own traps.

Last but not least : to set good habits since the start on this matter. Not like me ^^

By convention but not only, try to always oppose the lowercase and the capital letters of your notation for the trait studied. Blue weed = DD (lucky shot!) , not Blue weed = dd. Think about a light switch.

In using it like me to illustrate the “levels” of expressions, you force your method to use more specialized notations and to be quite off road. It’s not really an handicap, but it’s quite punk and ask more plant tags to blacken ^^ Discussions can quite heated for nothing too on pure theoretical matters if you’re pushing something that break the convention. You’re an heretic to burn quite fast lol

Now sincerely, if you can’t stand like me the binary system and that it slow down your learning curve, just fuck it. Anyway on traits notations i’m quite liberal and i’m the last to get mad when i see an exotic way that make sense.

Sorry, it was useless and important at a time :smile:

zigzig

It’s quite a ride now. Don’t worry i will not write a wall on chromosomes then to explain you that each time that i open the tent … “i see their code” ^^ And that’s the polemic side of this part of the glossary, it’s narrowed around the practical aspect of the consideration. And cannabis. You can handle this.

As cannabis breeder, what you need to know is reduced to understand etymology of these words and how they are build. No shit.

Homo (same) and Hetero (other) is quite simple to handle. And even if there is a slight variation, if you take the words homogeneous and heterogeneous and start to see the light with the presence of “gene”.

For “zygote” in the vegetal reign it’s not so hard to handle either but it introduce new words. There is a game i like particularly in the experimental field and it’s the polyploids. You have heard at least one time about it, and it’s generally BS extrapolated from fantasy ^^

“Each its own” like say the mantra of hipsters, but i consider this spectrum of experimentation less pussy that the reversal, that is entirely devoted to fuck up the sexuality of cannabis and to create a mirage at short term.

Polyploids can be a valuable genetic material if you know your shit with inbreeding, and permit to explore and generate expressions that are literally new. Not just variations enough extremes to appear new : like by example the Cheese inside the Skunk#1. Another mirage.

In the church of breeding that you’re reading right now, it’s almost the only case where you’re permitted to think in an absolute way. And this without being whipped with a Jack Herer trunk then rubbed on the bloody wounds with the most hardcore PK of the market. During three days.

It’s my favorite threat with my padawans when they say shit that can lead to limit their potential ^^ A signature of some sort lol

I prevented rightly about the trap, so now i can release the blasphema : polyploids generate true new genotypes, and it’s absolute.

Reversal can lead to think it as well, but it’s not true : it generate a new genotype (for your mapping) but it’s just a phenotype transformed in a genotype, not really a new stuff. It’s the fentanyl of cannabis breeding lol Massively hooking growers-stoners that know it’s bad without the need to have a breeding background.

Let’s make a quick draw to show you now the three main categories that concern cannabis and our craziness to make it more dank than dank : haploid / diploid / polyploid.

zygoteGame

Hell i’m quite proud of this one, simple and very dense. Pain is not all the time bad for the brain lmao
Ok, lets go.

barHaploid

It’s how cannabis naturally have sex, the porn game in the pollen tent. Whatever the pollen donor and the pollen receiver are, symbolized by the male’s symbol here.

The yellow ribbon is to remember you than beyond the apparent messy organical structure, there is a strict order of the things in the DNA. Genes have their dedicated space. Just for the sake of the education, just remember it’s called loci/locus and that it’s less complicated that it appear. It’s just the GPS location of the stuff. Not more, not less. In my draw, the vertical position of the genes we will talk about.

After “sex” the ovula of the female finally accept the physical data of the male. This physical vessel is the tube inside the grain of the pollen, that is quite acting like a tap root of a seed physically when it land on the pistil.

It’s quite fast, even with a degraded fertility, it last 3-4 hours only at the moment the pollen land in the pistils. After this, the time for the tube to hit the ovula and the ovula to start to become a seed can be very heterogeneous.

Now take your time and be really focus :

The draw represent the sexual organ of each part, the gametes that are haploid. When there are meeting to form a new diploid specimen later, the prime state will be called “zygote”. Kind of beta version that don’t chosen yet if your bud will taste like the SD or just a random musky weed ^^

Inside the whole horizontal yellow band (the loci, the location) you can see two differents genes linked with traits (latent or not).

The green genes are in a state that will produce an homozygous trait later, there is no margin for the “beta version” to fall in another way, so it just copy to be viable.

The blue and the red genes are in a state that can produce predictable results, but this result is composite. Like a cocktail or i don’t know … like oil and vinegar freshly well shaked. Remember now the Chapter One, got it ? ^^ This state will produce heterozygous trait later.

Stay focus we have to finish, it’s very important for your education and to don’t be this stoner that mix uniformity and stability. And that is thinking that “homozygous” mean stability either …

barDiploid

It’s the exact same concept that the haploid draw, it’s just that you no longer watch the sexual activity but more the romance and where the farmer is working. Because he’s not Neo, he work with traits and expressions that he can manage as an human ^^ And this is where the real power lies.

At the image of these billionaire canadian goliaths, you can be a fine genetician but if you don’t know shit on the plant, how it’s expressing and how it’s answering to epigenetics factors … you’re just unable to produce and create competitive genetics. At most rolling dice in quantitative breeding, being ashamed on regular basis by a accidental pollination of a random guy in a closet lol

It’s the dominating natural state of the cannabis, how the magic happens. And it’s also the finality of your selective pressure when you make your pairings. It’s how it look, even if all about textures, scents, internodes, nutrients uptake etc … for you.

barPolyploid

This exact draw is how the industry start to kick hard actually, atm i’m writing this. Literally crossing a triploid male to a diploid female to obtain a progeny unable to reproduce (to have seeds). It’s as simple that i just describe it, the procedure not and it involve a very high accuracy selection in a high inbred line you know like your own close family.

A polyploid is just a specimen that have more gen in the loci that a normal diploid. Can be a triploid, tetraploid, hexaploid … but for cannabis remember the triploids. The game i like in the experimental field, and not necessary to only beat the fems at their own game. But for the sake of the creativity too.

Don’t fall in the absolutism, dreamer. You need to know the basics before, to know how to push an IBL up to two digits depth, to be enough in ease with the selective pressure of the line. It’s not Las Vegas to play with this AND to keep the dankness of your weed at a time. But don’t sleep either, when some like to reinvent the fire with esoteric procedure mostly build on wishful thinking… other are landing stuff on Mars during this time.

I don’t really have a specific affection for this company and i dodged it, kind of tentative of a white labelish / mogulish / internationalish wholesalish … a chimera that don’t really found its way. But look at this link for the sake of the zeitgeist. It’s a discreet gold rush today, and these smart ass need both : reliable genetics and the skilled farmers that are mastering them.

And since two decades the scene have more produced dreamy hipsters with absolute thinking that a fertile competition.

God, what a ride. You deserve to roll one now and to chill to meditate on this ^^ Twice, do it for two.

mutavarieg

If you’re fascinated by the exploration of natural mutations in cannabis, sincerely … don’t read this part. The main subject is all about stabilized lines that can evolve under control, and under the leverage of selection mostly aiming the final product of this plant. And it affect this section, as a preventive presentation.

Freakshow, Duckfoot, Blueberry … i listen. No problem. But pragmatically they are epiphenomenons at the scale of the scene and in the streets there is no riots to get them. I prevented ^^ Jump before it’s too late lol

There is some hope, i’m more laid back when it’s generated on purpose and in a well mastered dynamic. But for now it’s more about the waste that you have on a regular basis for whatever reason, and this unexplained tendance of stoners to fall in love for it before even seeing a flower.

I used almost a P1 mutant to repro the real Big Bud IBL, i enjoyed as hell the “alien pods” seeds found in an AK and i’ve my share of experiments. It’s not binary, but i know the limits and the red zones to don’t itch and it will be more about this since now.

variegation

This is the three main styles of variegations encountered with cannabis. This is a clear and straight sign of genetic depression, but not seen as the ones afraid to assume an IBL and finding all excuses of the world to don’t confess it. Who care sincerely, if you make top notch weeds no one care about how you are driving your genpool.

So yes, this is a bad sign in any case. In this new era it concern mostly the progeny, the release, but not only. It can affect also a mother plant badly renewed and maintained. And it’s a very bad new as well, for now the “regeneration” sold by tissue culture fans is mostly a wishful thinking. It’s technically possible, but ask expensive procedures that make them hybrids and no longer the initial plant it was. With its obvious consequences on the final product.

I separate it from the spectrum of the mutations on purpose, but it belong to the same mutagen mechanisms. The ones that fuck up the accuracy of your mapping and of you selection, even if you do the job heavenly with well known genetics.

Why the fuzz specifically about the variegations, because it’s a generic reality now. If you’re interested in breeding, you will eat more seeds than the average. And on the panel, you will quickly see the general shitshow intensity. You have to compile with it, be patient and clean the stuff among a few generations. Most of the time 2 to 3 generations is enough to regulate this with a strict hand and copious arrays of seedlings.

Discarding drifted specimens will have more positive impact than to be frightened that inbreeding will increase the phenomenon. It can happens, yes, but if you use only variegated phenos … increasing the chaos and its unpredictability ^^

So beware, and change your priorities to adapt to the dark ages. I listen the argument of the one in the back of the room : “i prefer a variegated pheno that produce a good weed than a clean one that produce an average weed”. We don’t speak about the same subject. I’m talking about breeding, not selecting in one shot a mother plant to clone, for your blunts.

Last but not least, depression is not a question of length or of age of the work. You can directly generate depressed phenos the next generation with the reversal by example, and even more in using directly a S1. Something i will be forced to do soon enough, to show that it’s not a binary religion. Keep it for last resort solutions, and be prepared to handle it in selection with the right strategies. And clean the mess after you, the global genpool will thank you in bonus to have more accurate results the next steps.

mutants

I like to show these ones because it’s extremely rare to find someone that actually understand what it is, even if this person just passed a dozen of walls of text to explain you the life in advanced genetics with obviously zero experience on this matter ^^

To be fair, they are all polyploids experiments. And i will reveal you what it is in bonus ^^

  • The first on left is two specimens perfectly joined and in symbiosis, coming from a double ovary phenomenon. An african landrace.
  • The second is a male of 11 days from seed that is already flowering, he thrown pollen at 20. A simple skunk.
  • The third is his sister, flowering as well at the seedling stage but at 25 days from seeds.

These experiments were done on high pressure IBLs, and on lines specifically prepared for this. And it’s not DNA engineering or whatever look cool, just traditional selection a while ago “that don’t see the code”, with the step inducing polyploidy just before.

This digression is necessary to explain that even with a top notch lab and sequencing behind, the game stay the same : you roll dices without really knowing what you will get exactly. And what will survive past the germination as well. At most you can reduce the spectrum of the material you use to generate mutants, to increase the chances that the subsequent mutations go in your sense.

But as breeder, you need reliable patterns to map and to use. And mutations just break them suddenly.

A lot of things can be done with mutants in very specific and advanced contexts, but this is also a waste of the genetics you’re using or even generate sometimes. It’s very important to make the difference.

Listing mutations is impossible, it’s virtually infinite. The genotype is using it to evolve when in front of a dead sentence in general, but also when an exogenous dynamic apply a strong influence on a DNA not planned to react.


It’s not always easy to detect at the start, but generally a mutant is quite triggered early. You will have weird shape generally linked by an obvious lack of vigor. The code is fucked, the plant have more useless informations than useful ones to grow or to handle its functions : the concept of waste apply to the DNA itself, so the cleaning in culling them ^^


The reverse happens also, even if much more rare, with extreme vigors and/or resistances. In this case it’s always interesting to map it to find the linked traits equally extremes, but also those extincted to permit this. Just in watching the sisters and the brothers of the freak, aside.

So even if the subject is a complicated matter and that it can lead to advanced manipulations, take the habit to clean your genetics from its waste. Mechanically it improve it (its potential), and in jumping in the breeding game you will have more than your share of mutants. You will be quite immune fast against the “it’s fun” or any FOMO syndrom.

phyllotaxyAlt2

Dang this one look quite hippie but i like it for the subject, with a mnemonic wink on fractals that is quite spot on i find for phyllotaxy.

For your concern, it’s quite easy and fast to present the equation. Not big deal. But if i do it directly, it’s an open door to bad interpretations with leveraged worries. At the point that you can cull specimens for the bad purpose.

Be patient, it’s not really hardcore to handle, and worth the ride to give you the keys of the safety. Before the simple, but very important, advice.

sessile-petiole

First you have to integrate in your mind something very important to read cannabis plants for breeding purpose : the leaves and their sequence are the infantry of its growth. The military metaphor is very important to get for your selective considerations.

Cannabis is not a mammal, there is no possibility to move to increase its survival chances. And anything threatening its force of inertia can be a death sentence. It’s constantly the war for them, and they use their DNA as a quite aggressive counter-mesures.

In red, the step A is the moment before engaging a lateral domination and to take the risk to get more photosynthesis : it’s the state when the solar panels are qualified “sessile”.

In yellow, the step B is the moment just after in the juvenile sequence. After have “checked the hostile ground” and when the plant engage the resources necessary to deal with more light. Its perimeter of action is growing. For this, the plant need to elongate a risky business : an exposed and fragile highway, an artery, to exchange vital stuff with a specific layer of the trunk. It’s the state when the solar panels are qualified “petiole”.

Even if the hormonal blend stay primitive at this stage, it’s already driving this dynamic. Each step i’m describing progressively in this section can be considered as the degree of maturity of the vegetative growth, until it’s enough complex to be ready to flower (naturally or artificially) and take the lead of another hormonal dynamism.

It’s quite strain-related, but if your young plant is tall and keep its leaves close to the trunk … she already try to tell you something ^^

phylloshoot

This is the second sequence and the repetition of the first sequence in term of “military goals”. The plant test in real time if an exposure of its most important parts is a reliable strategy : the ones sexualized that will permit to spread the genotype. The ones that fill the blunts too, but don’t tell her ^^

The primary leaves are already using the DNA datas to reach their top productivity with photosynthesis. The efficient point. It’s not linear, among the nodes they have all their times and the function change among the age of the individual state.

Inefficient solar panel one day, efficient solar panel the next day and complex food tank the other day. The term “day” is relative, it’s not three days for each node lol even if at juvenile stage and with very vigorous lines it can be literally the case.

When the primary stems are on the path to the effiscience, what i call “secondaries” shoots appear at the intersection of the nodes. It’s in fact auxiliary meristems but stoners will find you pedant as fuck to use this term ^^. Find your way to bastardize botanic terms lol, whatever is the reason.

Keep it in mind to better respect what you’re seeing : it’s already at this stage 4 stems splitted in two functions. And already two bracts on each side announcing another critical function, a third one, the flowers. All of this in less than a half-centimeter space. This plant is just as beautiful than fascinating. And a very rich playground for freaks with a certain sense of the details ^^

finalSec

Not my favorite expression of the secondaries, very much NLish, but enough ridiculous and lanky to picture well this incredible stage.

After all the stages during the war for survival and its micro-steps, all the secondaries become true individual plants. It’s mesmerizing for me. They are so much efficient at this stage that if your remove it from the trunk, the DNA will figure out how to make it fully autonomous in switching the residual hormones contained in the chunk. Beyond the cloning process, the magic.

But when the plants start to generate its own clones attached to the trunk, mostly on lower nodes, it’s also the time when the phyllotaxy change radically at the upper level. And that the apical meristem start to build and stack a structure that is in fact the backbone of what we call the “main cola”. The central bud, where the caviar of the plant is ^^

Why all these descriptions until now : to make you realize how important is the nodal game for the whole plant. And how much diversified priorities are attached to it. Then how strong in considerations is the sequence of the phyllotaxy itself, that also follow the same military tactic than a juvenile seedling.

Let’s just present quickly the expression itself in a simplified way, before throwing the final point.

phyllo90-180b

If talking about auxiliary meristems make you pedant for stoners, needless to say that to qualify the phyllotaxy this way … you can give them the envy to burn you alive. Just the term phyllotaxy by the way lol

Still important for you in private to understand the right quality, i don’t throw it for the sake to look smart. Thank me later during your further researches, they are leads on themselves on various subjects.

And it’s an oversimplified version that concern only the conclusion and the trick that it represent really : the health of the plant.

When cannabis build its structure, mostly in veg, it have to use the “opposite” phyllotaxy. For an annual it’s important to optimize this stage to gain time and efficiency. It’s the also the sign that everything is fine.

When some parts are filled with high rate of hormones to be ready to flower, it’s switching to an alternate pattern. It concern both the upper side of the trunk and the secondaries.

The difficulty for the fresh meat is to recognize when this switch belong to a normal behavior on its supercharged lenght : good health

And to recognize when it’s way too soon to switch or when the length in question don’t have any reason to switch : bad health (genetic one, overall one, both at a time or one of the both cascading on the other).

Don’t worry, i’ve some photos to help a bit. But when you’re in front of the plants, it’s far more easy to catch when you know what to hunt.

fckedNodes

Bad new on the two specimens, but at a different degree.

On left a specimen totally fucked that switched to alternate phyllotaxy almost directly, yelling at you “let me die”.

On right a specimen with a reduced problematic, almost a gentle warning. The problematic being the proximity with the first nodes (vertically counted from the soil).

I’ve never understood why it’s complicated to handle at first glance. It doesn’t matter if the plant show a weakness in front of a factor, or just express a weak DNA. Phyllotaxy is really a hard sign that something wrong happens and that the DNA can’t stand it. In a way or another, that’s not a reliable plant to reproduce.

phyllo-allgood

On left, a specimen that feel good and show it with its phyllotaxy. Straight, just at the point before to switch globally (trunk/secondaries) in alternate phyllo.

In the middle a plant that just start to use the alternate phyllo on the higher nodes, then on right when it’s becoming full throttle to prepare the main bud formation.

The bonus : i told you that this plant is incredible right ? To flower she use various phyllotaxis that are not necessary the same from one strain to another. It don’t belong to health, it’s really a floral trait on its own.

lmao
:rofl:
@LemonadeJoe A pioneer is born tonight in term of wall of text.

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It’s challenging to keep up with your posts these days :rofl:

There is huge value in them, whatever they are, but it’ll take me an 15-30 minutes to really read through one of the walls and 30-60 minutes to write something engaging back. I spend about 1-2 hours a day in front of my PC where I can effectively do that. I probably spend about an hour posting trivial things and looking at peoples grow updates on my phone, but it’s impossible for me to post substantive things from it. But I’ll certainly read anything you add :slightly_smiling_face:

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This is now written in bold golden letters in my memory.
The PU x GDP exercise made me rethink a strategy I had in mind, while I may still use it, the outcome will probably be less surprising now.

One of my favorite things to do is read older threads, its where most of the diamonds are found.
Long live the OG V1 style.

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It cost me zero efforts to trust you :sweat_smile:
Add to this my polymeric grammar that isn’t helping to read fast lol

But on a global level, times are changing and it’s no longer well perceived without a lucrative goal. I hate this religion of disclaimers too, let’s be real damned. I don’t want to write in all my posts that i suffer like a dog and that’s it’s mostly why people get suddenly my focused attention at one point : to forget it. Nonsense lol

For you it’s different, you know the context and the why. And a bit the dog as well ^^

You made my day, i’m glad. It took me an half hour to find how to write this sentence in english ^^

The cherry on the cake being this new angle you got on your project. I was afraid that it look like a recipe more than just showing the gears.

Hell yeah, long live the OGv1 spirit. Let’s be quite punk again, our cannabis need it ^^

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Now on watching, buddy :wink:

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Welcome in the guts of the walls of text bro ^^ Thanks for your help in another dimension, very nice talk either.

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Awesome. Downloaded. Gotta get a print for the office.

Cool! Sounds like an actual project, in the way a car guy would have a project.

My “project” is my daily driver, Subaru Forester. Nothing particularly crazy, but it’s fun and utilitarian. Turbo with CVT. I like taking off to the mountains alone off-roading and camping, a few joints and a fire with some meat on top, no cell phone and just stare out at the sky and think. Spend a night or two peacefully alone and meditating, then back to my life of stressful job and family. Can’t wait to get out and do that again, another few months and my balls won’t freeze off.

It’s never been in the shop other than tires/alignment, I’ve done all the maintence and service work myself. Redid front suspension last weekend, exchanged all the fluids I’ve neglected (differentials, coolant). This coming weekend I’m going to service the CVT and do spark plugs. It’s got 135K miles, I don’t intend to part ways with it until something catastrophic happens. Just keeping everything tip-top shape is soothing to me in a way. Same sort of concept as keeping plants. Maintaining something. Maybe I smoked to much tonight but I give to things and they give back. Like this 907 Blue Genes making my eyes heavy.

I appreciate you spilling the scene on the white label thing a bit. It’s intriguing.

It’s certainly a priviledge. I only brought it up as I would expect similar flexibility in seed-making. My job is designing things that have never been made before, with a bunch of useless degrees hanging in my office. But, analagous nonetheless. I think for a living. Fucking crazy really. Folks pay me to think about problems, I get to have fun solving them and then get fed another problem. I’m much better at thinking about electricity and physics, but I learn the language(s) of plants slowly, with some help :wink:

Intriguing. I’d say a healthy set of objectives. Similar habitat to those kilos of fems grown by the masses.

I’ve been debating how to handle this as my little one grows. I’ve got some time before I have to make the more difficult decisions.

Is it labeled from Canna? :rofl:

Jokes aside modern medicine is an incredible field. Frustrating that insurance, costs and health providers have largely gutted the magic of it all (at least here in the USA).

Looks like a rough couple weeks. But, I imagine this will make for an easier life going forward. Good trade overall. I hope the recovery continues to go smoothly. I know it’s going to be rough for a while, but brighter days, and unsoldered jaw meals await.

I don’t think it’s pathetic at all.

Well, it’s real help for others too, being freshly provided with plenty of high-nutrition text to read. Takes a while for my mental roots to assimilate all the high-EC walls of text. :laughing:

Hope you have a good day, I assume it’s early AM there. Bedtime for me of course. I have left the meat (your Chapter Two post) on this bone for my tomorrow morning…If I attempt to read it tonight I won’t be seeing my pillows for several more hours.

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This poster is super cool isn’t it, it refresh us on the ride done. But damned spanish, they are on all good plan on canna way before us each time ^^

I love this car, it’s a panzer. Half million kilometer isn’t an exploit for this good horse. I see that you make it lasting, good choice. Kind of car you regret to no longer have when it’s gone. I hope she treat you well, not like a brit.

I understand the peaceful ride to return to source. In this context my style will be more to bring with me a few friends to make a bloody micro-cannabis cup ^^ Something in this vein.

It’s crazy how white labels are ignored from the web scene. Now they are not actors of the said scene, they just keep afloat the stock. Still always a good opportunity maybe for those that need to keep their R&D alive in paying the bills. But hey, all ways lead to Rome.

I was commenting normal french jobs in fact, in the EU seed industry you’re quite free in fact. If not totally. Now you always depend on the demand it stay a business, little place for creativity these last decades. I’m not pessimist either, i love the idea that so much people suddenly started to grow. Like massively ^^

You manner to put the bread on the table look really like a dream job for engineer. Tinted by the inherent way american have to deal with business, i missed to take a plane and to try early my chance in your lands.

I dodged the system here by sysadmin certifications, then elevated by work and functions. Just at one point the seed industry was more sexy on the ratio income(better)/time spent(same). So i make the switch simply.

You know what, it’s crazy to have pissed so much fems without being aware on how and why they were used in term of average constraints. I’m still totally against, but it change the perspective a lot. Now i like this minimalism i must say, i’m adapted finally and it’s quite smooth to handle. Costs are more rational with a simple hobby too.

Catch the discussion when they start to stretch and that hormones are kicking, it’s more simple. You can group the utilitarian discussions, it look less “focused” for them and more generalist. Now the ride was different for the two, for me. It started early with questions asked for one, the other was more a pushed prevention. Trust your feeling, it’s your flesh.

I was surprised by their opening with my recurrent use. Mentality evolve even here. But no lol, i think it’s possible but the cost of the stuff make no sense for cannabinoids ^^

True the cost is insane to have the “up to date” stuff. I find it shameful. I can’t even imagine if i was living in your lands. I guess like these story of people homeless because they was in need of something similiar at one point to save their ass.

Week 2 monday. I feel like it’s two months. Next 2 weeks will be the harder in term of pain, consolidation. I can see it coming already ^^ 7AM and typing crazy stuff on breeding since hours. Hunting a specific SD too, maybe i’m lucky this night after one year of searches. It hurt so much in fact that i don’t think about the food, just the idea to chew at the actual state of the mess avoid any frustration. And these fucking bottles are dope, i hope i will not develop a dependency to this shit lol The good new is that i start to be fit and muscles are stimulated by the SciFi meds. I take it. I just bought an hydraulic rower, can’t wait to use it.

I hated the way some people make it a show. Now i understand how it feel to just “make the coming out”, it’s useless, it don’t change anything, but psychologically just to do it suddenly make you feel good, for good. I know that some people know, so i handle the situation far better. It’s stupid as fuck. But it work ^^

Hell yeah it’s concentrated, it’s food for your camping at long term lol It’s very much centralized on breeding and i realized that i wasn’t able to write about something else without interaction. It’s fun somehow ^^

Eyes are finally heavy, i will try to sleep a little. The part on homozygous/heterozygous is quite a beast to make it practical, it will be a ride ^^ See ya and kiss the SPG phenos for me lol

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Sounds like your nights are still busy. Disliking it for what it means you’re going through, but well, I’m liking your wiki drops.

Didn’t have time lately to write on OG nor follow as much as I want. This community is so big I don’t think it’s possible to follow everything in a single human life, even 24/7 on the keyboard. Frustrating, but very cool!

Still had time to have good laughs reading your wikis. The white label/fem part is full of good jokes and informations. There’s some cool debunking of bro breeding science here, and I agree it’s really nice to have more light on the shady EU white labels economy and breading practices

Hey, punk is one of this binary things in life. You can’t be “quite punk”, it’s either you are, or you’re not. So let’s do this, hell yeah! :smiley:

Glad the poster is pleasing you all as much as me. I’ll try to print it too. Maybe we could fire a thread about printing it, it may reduce the cost.

I’ve stumbled upon that too lately, looks like in a near future we’ll have CBD patches to heal wounds, I’m sure you would have been much more motivated for your surgery knowing you’d have that :smiley:

Chitosan-based films with cannabis oil as a base material for wound dressing application

(Yeah I was looking at chitosan uhuh) :laughing:

If you take requests about topics, you’re already covering some essentials stuffs that will help a lot starting to think/do some crosses. There are things you talked about here and there that I’d be interested in having more details, but I’m not sure if it’s relevant. Probably too broad and vague, or entering the “secret sauce” territory too much. Let’s try:

I’m curious about all the little tricks around nutrition ratios, use of hormones, “PGR” or other things like fulvic acid that are tools that help in the selection. How and when they’re useful. :slight_smile:

I’d be up for a little wiki about cyto too, but that’s my laziness talking I think. I’m reading about it and others hormones since a while, but there’s still blurry aspects.

Send my warm encouragement to your little family, I know it’s not easy to see a relative going through such things. You look like a solid guy, I’m sure they know, but still :slight_smile:

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Yeah, i will be a bit productive during two weeks from now ^^ As i said, i take all suggestions like a blessing.
It was straight from the soul.

You already know that publicly i will never publish a method. At most, and if you have the right grid of reading, you can extract bribes that i let there and there as a wink or as a private joke. Breedbay learned me not only to lock my F1s, but also to protect my shares from ungrateful and amnesic fake prometheus that finally … are filled with rusty egoistic drives behind the polish layer.

I fucking digress, but this spirit still in action today. It’s a preventive backward shared with those landing here, for their own sake. I think that being all the time on the defensive is not a sane position, aswell that to forget the shark tank ^^

I’m very glad you appreciate the copter ride ;o) And look at the ambivalence of this, that say long : You have the big advantage to understand my composite grammar, over native english, but still … i’m fucking writing all of this in english and not in french lol

I play the bad guy with CBD stuff and hempy weed to protect the dank, but it just don’t work on me at all. It give me light headache at most (hemp do this on me). Very not a leverage ^^

But a full spectrum THC/THCv/CBN full of terps and phenols … hell, i think the recovery will pass a lot better. Not only to be nicely baked, really on the med side as well. Sleeping well, mood enhanced and nerves states really improve the quality of the repair tool kit. Factually i mean, and beside the direct advantage of the chemotypes of cannabis.

When i see all these hardcore meds over the desktop, it don’t make sense. Even economically for a government. I think it’s why americans have so much advance on the question now, it’s more prevalent on a less generous system i guess. I digress again.

Let me purpose a direction on your suggestions, and tell me if it fit the lead you’re seeking.

  • NPK and micros by the perspective of breeding, because i’m a “bottled freak” very not fascinated by cannabis nutrition lol

But i feel a bit illegitimate, most of my “science” on it come from different lines of nutrients that i’ve mastered and used in different ways. A bit like the House and Garden post i’ve made a while ago.

We have to debate on this, maybe you overestimate my use of this leverage.

At one point i can make a photographic tutorial for seeds treated with chitosan banes, it’s really a little “french touch style” that make the final product (seeds) just a bit more qualitative. It don’t really affect the true final product (weed quality). In full theory mode it will be quite boring and very short : dip, dry, dip dry, dip, dry. Done ^^

  • Hormones inherent to cannabis growth and selection can be very interesting, even to write for me. I’m not fascinated by phyto either, but it’s in every consideration of my selections. Shoot the blurry zones, so i will tailor a bit the writing to a luxury one for you ^^

Behind the scene, i talk more about the pain and the discomfort here that physically around me. I don’t show much to sons, it’s important for me. They have to feel safe, i still the shield they need in life if any. It’s not proudness, just the contract i signed with life ;o) I prefer to remember them to talk less loud on their discord when i can sleep, it’s the proof that it don’t interact much with their own life and it make me glad. I take every bit of sun lastly lol

I’m even restarting to listen the discography of Bob Marley, what a cliché lol Still dope, intemporal. Positive vibration baby !

Don’t tell anyone i’m tempting people to put a first feet on a slope that is quite a non return roller coaster ^^ We need punks truly generating next gen weeds, as fuck.

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Ack, clear and loud :smiley:

I had to try, don’t blame me :laughing:

That breedbay era seems to have been wild wild west. told me a bit about already. Can’t blame about locking the F1s, in fact I think that can be a good practice in a certain way, as to elevate the breeding level in the cannabis world.

Yeah I’m sometimes wondering how native english speakers do :laughing: My offer for reviewing grammar still stands.

Yeah, it does not seem to be that of a universal medicine. I sometimes wonder, but there’s probably the same range of entourage effect with CBD meds than for recreative use. But I’m not so convinced myself when I tried it, and other people with some condition around me did not like it. They still want other cannabinoids.

Now well, in europe you’re right, CBD is basically hemp. Specific drug cultivars are just slowly getting certified at the UE level. Right now, most authorized CBD strains are just hemp cultivars highjacked to produce CBD, and they can do it at low levels only. If you want CBD, get concentrates.

Yeah, that was what I thought about. Bottle or not, it’s not so important in the end, that’s more about the plant and playing with it’s reaction to some stimuli.

Indeed, seems chitosan coated seeds are effective and industrially used too. Found a few things about that. Far better trick than GHS color marking lol

Don’t bother do a wiki about that, unless you feel the need for it :smiley:

I get the willing to avoid to be too much of a pain for them. Don’t refrain too much though, in the end taking care of you is also meaning good memorable moments together. That’s a good time to get all the hugs and favors you want, I’d go for it :slight_smile: Specially since the kids are in their 20s, soon they may be too busy and independant for your taste ahah.

4 Likes

LightStats21-114
FoodStats21-114

The little amazonia is on its cruising speed, mirroring a bit that i’m staying on the track after all. Day+14 for me lol

I tried to handle it alone but it was a bit optimistic. Son is back in his flat far away. Wifey entered in the lab before i gulped my proundess to ask after her. Streamlined maintenance, we are used to work together on plants.

She still the clone expert she was (and that i’m not), attracted naturally by phenos the more prone to build the best mother plants to sell clones by arrays. She don’t even need to check the roots like me to know who’s who, it transformed the repetitive task in a kind of quiz to find the best plant tags on this trait ^^ Zero error, and i’m unable to guess how she do it. Pure instinct. I like it, it remember me how diverse can be this game and its actors. And the wide diversity of people that i met.

I’m still shared on the density. Except for seedlings of course, more density of mature plants will not be more interesting if not with narrowed sativas. Less density will be frustrating but it will reduce a bit the fight for domination (that i like to see). It’s a sweet spot, but i’m lured by the diversity of the lines not specially correlated.

I mean it’s not a “skunk round”, not an “aghani round” … just repros mixed with an utilitarian sequence. Can’t wait the next already.

Checkpoint update, mature plants, let’s show the group shots this time.

This good old Big Bud , even wounded, stay on the track and still reliable even in herm seeds. Not her best representation but this round was precious in datas to overcome the segregative traps of the true F2s. It was the last week of PK and the second without any base. Next watering, Top shooter alone enter in the dance.



It’s not yet well engaged, but i finally start to have some reaction to the regime lol And even anthocyanins on the late, this pheno have the jet lag ^^

The fems are doing their job, scents are lightly becoming more interesting. My little favorite is on the right, quite stretchy. Good structure, clean phyllotaxy, nice trunk rub scents and texture. Promising. No herms so far, even if it’s a biased sentence. This photo show in fact ~20+ seeds, it’s pre-screened by a truffle dog for feminized herms ^^

The AKs. Even if this batch was better overall, i’m quite worried by the pollution of males of this line on recent millesimes. It’s gonna be a ride. Stability isn’t what make the label the best around a while ago. The equation is more complex than the big bud to save the whale. To be continued.

The COB and the one Calindi on right. Zero herm on the whole and i was quite rude, still surprised. Both are little releases “white labeled”, not in house stuff. Bad seeds but lucky shot on the batches, they don’t suffer much in vigor to be embryos extracted overall. Can’t wait to work their ass with my seeds.

On the seed dpt, i finally found an interesting combo inside the AKs pool. A bit exotic i must say, the female is very much on the camphor side and the male present signs of strong levels of gib’ without triggering traits i’ve to worry about.

The pollination of the COB repro is done, now it’s the turn of the Calindi repro to colonize this improvised space. Next week, it’s the turn of another female that i will finally pollinate manually with a stored pollen of another calindi male, the combo is more tailored for the project of a friend that need it for a 4Way. Cocky for a first serious project, i like it.

Giger#1 is on the way, i just hope to have a female to taste it. Let’s say “she” suddenly fattened, i wasn’t expecting this leave shape at this point. Interesting. Still a clean seedling, no funk, no variegation and happy to be blasted by lights. Among the next week, i will transplant carefully. It’s a bit lazy in root dpt.

A now a little gentle rant than only a very limited number of people will read ^^ Another magic of Discourse.

My favorite fem, Ether(NL#5) x C91. The famous “red stems of the death” that generate fancy diagnostic often, sometimes dangerous for the health of the plant lol It’s just fucking high brix level concentrated in sugars. She’s blasted and metabolize as fuck, that’s all.

Everybody eat the same but the budding Big Bud, what’s the point to change the regime when the green is just fine and clean. And specially if on the other side …

… you see an AK47 equally blasted by lights and equally an auxin freak that just don’t give a fuck. If brix levels can be interesting to study for breeding and metabolism, making the “rhubarb effect” of densified indoor light a thing doesn’t have any sense.


This is how it’s looking between the updates, they have the head just below three 250w bulbs. They are smacking it ^^ Hell yeah i want red stems with some genetics, i pay the bills for it sacrebleu !

To stay on the rant game, i just read this one and i like it. I like High Times like Soft Secret, i take it for what it is … but i must confess that i like the tone and the angle of the guy on this one.

https://hightimes.com/weirdos/weed-is-magic-a-rant-in-two-parts/

See you around, let’s continue this glossary-wiki.


I forgot a private wink : It don’t have to be litterature to be packed with datas and able to evolve in real time. That’s the point to bulletproof it in blackening some A4 paper in multiple versions, and colors permit to gain seconds when you check. Seconds that you multiply per the number of plants. It shouldn’t be standardized, it have to be tailored for the goal of the round.

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Just finished my morning reading to catch back. So much things in your usually quieter thread! :smiley: Had good laughs again. And it seems your english level is rising too!

The phyllotaxy part is interesting, plants do tell a lot with their morphology. I noticed their shape was also conditioned by the roots. If you put two identical clones (well, as identical as they can be) in differently shaped pots, they will grow differently.

It’s probably because most of what he did was more local than global. In a rush to try to cope with legalization and the concurrence in an open market from the perspective of farmers. He still seem to have build something in the community of farmers he belongs to. Also he seems to have stepped down a bit lately, found this podcast where he pops in and gives some news.

Given just cloning can already generate mutations in the genomes, I’ve always thought that tissue culture was likely to do so, with such the level of stress and the hormonal game it means. It seems some canadian researchers found a better way to propagate though even as fun as it is, it has the same inconvenient:

Didn’t know CSI was already selling polyploids. Had a good laugh with their description of colchicine: “we have harnessed a rare phenomenon by creating tetraploid plants using a natural chemical derived from the bulb of the autumn crocus (Colchicum autumnale)” Marketing can be fun sometimes :smiley:

Plants are looking good otherwise, it’s great that your mate has some talent with plants, less stress for you, and good times together :smiley:

Anyway, hope your prediction was wrong and things start to calm down this week.

2 Likes

I was so much focused to rise the bar of walls of text that i’ve one post in late ^^ Let’s multi-quote this buddy :laughing:

To be neutral, like OGv1 was too ^^ Thick leather recommended on both.
But it was worth the ride even if the comparison of both places is quite fucked up lol

The context of BBay was special. A board under the dominating shadow of Subcool (RIP) (very active and implied at different levels) and also boosted by this (fanbase traffic).

With a section dedicated to auctions for various little labels, with a procedure to get validated (turning around reliables/experimented/officialized seed’s testers). The ecosystem was quite good overall, regulated to maintain a certain kind of quality of releases and smart enough to offer a good dynamism for everybody. Also an US/UK junction that was lacking in the game.

Now the owner (long term partner of Sub, BBay was created for him after his attempt to win a cup at Dam) was quite liberal in term of genetics, like a bit unofficially open sourced :sweat_smile:, except with his Cheese and Cheese hybrids lol Big Buddha (RIP) screwed him badly, as an ex employee, so i don’t really blame this protectionism. The story concern more than the cut itself, bad stuff overall.

Add to this that when you released something, buyers of auctions weren’t only the “customers” but also the other breeders ^^ It wasn’t really hidden and and even with double ID too much centralized to be a secret at the moment you was publishing auctions on regular basis.

Coming initially from the universe of white labels (before BBay), i don’t gave a damn fuck sincerely and i even played the game full throttle with people interested. I just refused to germinate a single seed of Sub during all this time, by respect. I’m just unable to don’t use a good weed and his catalog was quite dank overall ^^

I was lucky enough to be there at the peak of the intensity and before the fall, so there a shit ton to tell about. But for the shark tank it was, it’s a good overview of the context. You can be surprised by who was the “baddest shark” of the tank, at the point to literally annihilate BBay to the ashes for his own profit ^^

This sequence hardened a bit my game methodologically on a personal level, but also gave me a more wide overview of what was the market from a continent to another. With all its ambivalences and differences.

But yes, very stimulating and with practical breeding discussions that i no longer see today. Very not “let’s talk about the sex of the angels” style. We were also all knowing the level of the kung fu of each others, by the facts ^^

And I’ve an eidetic memory, beware lol I just prefer to have a shit ton of texts and various stuff to bulletproof that annoying you for OG stuff that don’t really matter and that belong more to my own entertaining than anything else. If you know, you know like they say.

True, it’s why i contextualized my position. I know for sure by example that the Rick Simpson oil is really something, and that it can be extrapolated with hemp efficiently. I worked a bit on the Cannatonic also in using my knowledge of industrial hemp.

But i have to be equally radical that the bad faith surrounding the “auto” subject, and that mostly don’t concern this spectrum of the equation. But more the educational levels of the “good enough” hipster’s wave.

The recurrent absence of controversy in a lot of subjects (fems, the H word lol, the place of reversal in hobbyist crops, all bullshiting about breeding of course, the bad faith in term of consequence in front of the factual proofs…) don’t play in favor of cannabis overall. Educated templars are required now, in these dark ages ^^

Very true for the EU context, but behind the “it’s not what it obviously look like” strategy … botanically if you need CBD, you need hemp. It’s genetically screened, scientifically proven and teach a lot on drug cultivars as well (in favor of the dank). All a heated debate my friend ^^

Understanding how cannabis is naturally built to handle carencies, is more important. Overall. The farmr side of the equation, the concern on how it can be used to cycle food cultivars, to depollute soil … this plant is so incredible that you have to specialize your quest to use the full potential of a single quality.

Now it’s a personal spectrum taking in count my own style, i strictly grasp all minutes i can to counterbalance it in the reading of phenotype. Productivity and what can be accomplished in a year have a big place in my practices. This statement will be more obvious in 2025 i guess ^^, i also show here that breeding as an hobby have constraints and it’s not magic : you don’t piss a competitive genpool overnight.

Now, someone that have already spended all the time necessary to master in depth the whole nutrient’s leverages for cannabis, can use it efficiently for breeding as a high epigenetic leverage. It’s just another style on which i can’t really help or give leads.

I remember these seeds when they were first released. Smarties ^^ The strategy wasn’t bad in the absolute, and a shit ton of money was really invested. They don’t played pussy.

They just, one more time, forgot the “farmer’s side” and little details that only dirty hands know lol
Chitosan tutorial bookmarked in mind, to do it rightly there some elasticity to get. The procedure have to adapted to the lines, and their intrinsic differences in term of pure seeds production (oil, shell type, calibration …). Something that GHS have totally ignored with their smarties.

All is finally revolving around a pearl i was enough fool to get from the unreachable abyss, in apnea ^^ God i will quote her this one lol

I’m glad you saw the extra efforts ^^

Yes true, the root shape have a direct influence on the aerial part. And over the volume, some experiments on various shape of the pot (cubic, round, ovoid, exotic …) can be very surprising on the expressions of the whole plant.

It’s why i firmly advise people interested by breeding to really industrialize their process with a streamlined context. And it start to use exactly the same pots for all specimens, all the time. Also to simplify the sequence of the transplantations the most they can, in mastering the timeline where it should be done.

It’s very not innocent, you nailed it.

I hope i will meet Jodrey one day, and in the field surrounded by plants to have a better sight.
On my long list ^^

Watching long podcasts without having the possibility to wall-of-texting them because some details make me crazy on the genetics dpt, is quite hard … even baked as fuck lol

Only to proceed all podcasts around, to make shine the diamonds and burry the charcoal … is a full time job that require a team. It can’t be intemporal like spamming OG, between two cycles of lights ^^

Oh boy, just in this sentence you can get me started on various topics that can get me immolated in public place ^^

Library maintenance, maintaining an annual plant vegging durings years, the abuse of language of the tissue culture tribe and a shit ton of more practical stuff for breeding. Hemp industry too ^^

Monthony2021_Article_FlowerPowerFloralReversionAsAV.pdf (2.4 MB)

Reading it atm. For one time the equation of micro-propagation is taken with pragmatism, farmer’s side. With some funk inherent to scientists that can’t have the backward. Nice find, let’s multi-quote this damn.

Even if i’m not very interested by it by the too long cycles of the micropropagation (for breeding), it enlight the path quite well.

In vitro storage of
germplasm is highly space efficient compared to maintaining mother plants for stem cuttings, which can occupy up to 15% of available floor space in a commercial growth facility.

In a breeding facility that piss fems night and day, it represent over the half of the total surface. With the “dutched french” touch, SOG all the way and superimposed spaces. With a sweet spot of a minimum 250-350 sqm filled to be able to generate an entire catalog in one shot, at a time.

In vitro growth systems also offer a source of axenic, disease-free tissues, and are a pre-requisite to the implementation of plant biotechnologies

Very true, it’s why i renewed so much and so fast the mother plants. And partially why i decided to replace them with seeds (proof of concept actually in WIP, not a conclusion).

In fact my strategy to insure a max grade of output was very simple : they weren’t really motherplants but the clones used to produce that i replicated just before the production. Infernal loop, and it’s how wifey becomes a fucking killer at cloning. Give back to Cesar what belong to Cesar.

The limited success of MSCs has been attributed in part to strong apical dominance in the shoots which reduces branching and multiple stem formation (Smýkalová et al. 2019;Wróbelet al. 2020).

They see an absolute scientific approach, not the compromise. I losted a friend on this matter, that thinked i was bullshitting him in insuring we were owning exactly the same cut. He was just too “scientifical” (INRA) to handle that his approach was bad in term of grade of the final product. Because his “papers” was saying the reverse.

Schools don’t teach them the elasticity required to do the right thing for the right line, and for the right specimen of the said line. They just see cannabis. And in general they were so much restrained in long studies, that when they are unleashed … oh god their egos have the size of a planet in front of the plant ^^ The plant SHOULD comply with their absolutism, or it’s a bad plant or some voodoo or some complot lol

The mode of floral reversion has implications in plant biotech- nology where early transient gene expression studies have shown the potential to express transgenes in floral tissues (Deguchi et al. 2020).

I should dig this ^^

In many cases, inflorescences have been more successful than other explant sources, making floral reversion an important tool to overcoming recalcitrance and for the rapid production of clonal, disease-free elite-culti- vars (Zayed et al. 2016;Shareefaet al. 2019).

I don’t believe that they discovered the compromise of high cytos cloning so late. And the re-veg mechanism of cannabis ^^

we hypothesized that floral reversion using inflorescences from in vitro plants can provide an alternative approach to vegeta- tive micropropagation of C. sativa.

That’s dope and make totally sense. I wasn’t knowing it possible to use these parts. Just dope.

The objectives of this study are to (i) optimize floral rever- sion for micropropagation by comparing the effect of floret number and cytokinins on the efficacy of the process and (ii) identify the source of tissues responsible for reversion through histological sampling.

Definitively good lads these canucks ^^

2024-03-05_12h56_18

Fuck, litterally lol

using a 16-h photoperiod at 25°C with a light intensity of approximately 50 μmol s−1 m−2 measured using a LI-180 Spectrometer (LI- COR, Lincoln, NE), until reverted vegetative explants began to show signs of crowding in the Petri dishes (8 wk).

I’m sure this trend of fucked up photoperiods with plants come from this lol We have our share of stubborn egos unable to contextualize too.

But god, 2 months just for the reaction. It’s becoming problematic with the customers that want everything for yesterday, for the cheaper they can. Long cycles and short catalog were respected “yesterday”, now it’s a death sentence economically.

Floret number significantly affected the per- cent reversion of explants to the vegetative state in both the BAP and mT experiments (Table 1 and Table 2). In both experiments, pairs were approximately three times more likely to revert than single florets.

Dope info, it explain indirectly some phenomenons on the re-veg game. But also why cleaning the clone one time he’s reverted accelerate a bunch the process.

I readed too much in diagonal previously, still not fundamentally overcoming the inherent high rate cycles required but quite interesting for sedentary cuts responsible of a whole catalog / dozen of strains.

Now re-veg hit grade (progeny and weed of progeny), and open pairing is totally against my philosophy ^^ I want a true coffee shop at home, not all tastes of the same thing with a streamlined chemotype.

In this work, Piunno et al. (2019) found that the reversion response was sporadic and only observed in 2/3 of cultivars tested. Though the cellular mechanism by which vegetative explants were produced was not explored, the authors hypothesized that reversion was occurring from existing meristems rather than de novo regeneration (Piunno et al. 2019).

It explain why you shared this paper now, in the context the term “regen” is a slang describing a process during the sequence.

Not the regeneration i was talking about, and that literally try to restore the quality of a DNA with an engineered RNA (i bastardize), making the new specimen an hybrid (let’s say F1). Ex : i send them a chem#4 totally fucked and variegated as fuck by a bad maintenance, to get back the weed, they send me back an healthy hybrid restored at max DNA potential, without any latent variegation to fight against.


6wks aclim, it complete the schema in up. It make the whole at around 6 months, not fundamentally changing the game but the approach is very interesting i find. Globally.

In these species, floral reversion via indirect organogenesis required the inclusion of auxins and cytokinins for callus induction and subsequent regeneration of vegetative tissues. Inclusion of TDZ, which has both auxin and cytokinin-like activity (Guo et al. 2011), promoted callus induction in C. sativa inflorescences, but yielded low frequency of floral regeneration (Piunno et al. 2019).

No shit guys ^^ Let’s try with a SPG now to have fun lol

We propose that this basal meristematic region is the genesis point for the observed shoot growth during floral reversion. Complete floral reversion, characterized by normal vegetative growth of the explant, appears to occur fol- lowing a transitional period from the flowering stage to the ensuing vegetative growth stage during the first 2 wks post- excision from the flowering in vitro mother plant. During this period, the newly excised florets would often produce one to two new florets along the elongating stem, prior to reverting to complete vegetative growth. This transitional growth can also be observed in whole plants grown ex vitro when a flowering plant is transferred to long days to “re-veg”, or when cuttings are taken from flowering plants.

Yeah, propose this ^^

In this study, we elucidate the developmental origin of floral reversion in C. sativa and show that pairs of florets are more likely to undergo reversion than single dissected florets. In addition, we show that floral reversion im- proved our previously achieved multiplication rate using nodal cultures and we suggest that with further optimiza- tion of shoot proliferation and reduction of labor, floral reversion can exceed the potential for multiplication achieved using apical and axillary nodal cultures.

I should have started at the end, as usual when a stoner send me a doc ^^ But it was a fun ride, and gave some leads on subject totally outside the spectrum of the “true” regeneration.

Still a nice find, but beware to don’t fall in the usual trap buddy to interpret too fast scientific documents. It’s quite a sport to be used to handle them.

CSI is a “little” popular label retailing stuff, HSC a bigger project (falling flat) aiming initially to compensate a lack in USA : the absence of centralized wholesalers, like we have in EU.

I’ve saw miraculous marketing that make a random bulk fem seed a diamond lol The worse is that it’s enough powerfull to lure some customers to the very end, the smoking ^^ Spanish are very skilled at it, it’s respectful in my mouth. I was astonished multiple times this way.

My prediction unfortunately is most a question of sequence, i’ve to live the peak during two weeks. But i got a good new, i can smoke blunts (not chain smoking them either, sic) within 3-4 weeks from now. Just in time for the Big Bud, how miraculously timed it is, right ? ^^ lmao

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IntroMendel2-2

Welcome in the second part of what was planned to be an usual glossary. Like a Chem#4 with a bad CEC, it’s mutating a bit. But the gain of time for later is enormous, each section seen during the “Glossary & Slang” will permit to directly enter in the core of the subject later, without caring much about interpretations.

It mean less words to explain the same things, and more words to give practical keys. If you’re here, after two walls of text … you’re a brave anyway. Like an hardened of seedling.

DioicMonoic2c

For this version i will try to go more in depth finally in the sexuality of cannabis, over just the main principle of its classification.

I don’t wanted to waste my time on it and i wanted to let the gaslighting on hermaphroditism of this plant make its darwinian job. But the pressure to accept the shit show is so much strong these days, that it’s becoming toxic. I don’t know how i will handle it in staying concise and not arid, but i will try my best. Maybe i will break again the limits of words-per-post just with this section ^^

Joke aside, the subject is full of traps and quite difficult to transmit without dictatorial leads. It’s someone that have started in breeding, in guerilla crops, with a ghanaian directly sourced and quite herm that write these words. Your first true ride in breeding is never an innocent step for your late philosophy.

WEB-GB-Catalogue Varietale 2019.pdf (3.3 MB)

Before entering in the rabbit hole of Alice, go check this (reduced for weight) catalog. It’s pleasant but show a bit that for hemp its an industrial standard. Whatever is the use of the plant, it’s just a parameter. The last strains in the end are the more expensive, the “top shelves”. Check also if you have well integrated the Chapter One and guess what the names mean ^^

It also show that the dioecy and the monoecy of the lines are not specifically linked with a speciality, but that the catalog mostly sell monoecious strains. Get other catalogs, make patterns yourself.

monoeciouscorrect

Behind the very simple classification, it’s a manner to perceive hermaphroditism with cannabis and hemp that is very important to integrate. It’s not about the kind of herm or the individual expression of them.

It’s all about their weight in the line at a given time. One time that you integrate it rightly, dealing with herms whatever you want to do with it, become much more clear.

You can edict your own rules of tolerance based on your own protocols. And to move the cursors from one line to another, from one generation to another. This part can’t stand a golden rule. Sometimes you have to screen out hardly, other times to be more careful to don’t lost an important trait in the battle.

But you can’t take decisions if you don’t have ratios to deal with, and it mean to count the herms naturally triggered and the latent ones. Both are agents of chaos for your selections, but they aren’t indicating the same thing for the line individually.

Without entering too much in details for now, you should stay pragmatic when your consideration belong to the classification of the line. Due to the inherent dominance of herms until they reach a maximal point (that vary among the strains), if you hit the 50% mark you can already consider the line as monoecious, as a drug cultivar breeder.

dioeciousCorrect

For the dioecious state of one line it’s a bit more complicated to handle and revolve more around the males than the herms. One more time it’s not about the individual phenotypes and their expression, but entirely about the dynamic of the line.

In staying in the situations the more hard to handle, you can have a perfect grow of the females of the batch but that turn all herms just before or during the senescence. You can’t decently consider it as a dioecious line, on the whole there is a majority of specimens having both sex expressed and it don’t enter in this classification. The culprit can be the lack of adapted conditions to triggered them earlier, but also simply the genetic itself.

In another hands, if you got only a single warning on less than 10% specimens (1:10 for a standard pack of seeds), it don’t enter in the other classification as well. Even if you have a zero herm politic.

It’s very important to keep the head on the shoulder with these two tribes, and to separate this consideration with your goal and/or your philosophy. It’s just all about the ratio.

To counteract the dynamic that you see growing, you just have to refine your strategy in term of male’s selection most of the time. Like reintroducing males in a S1 line by example.

Most of details are here to show you that if your decision should be fully contextual, the classification have to be rigid and only determined by the ratios that you get. It’s not only keeping clear your mind, it’s also a true gauge.

Let’s make a gentle pause in presenting the three sexual expressions involved in these two classifications now. Behind the male/female/herm triumvirat, some basic mechanisms and a kind of hormonal flow to handle.

It’s not complicated, the difficulty is more to stay enough elastic to accumulate different layers of simple concepts.

VegSex

The domination of feminized seeds in the market since 20 years is mostly due to the inherent difficulty to isolate the different sexual expression early, at a juvenile stage. Until the hormonal activity of the plants is enough strong to clearly show the inherent floral activity of each sex : the well known “pre-flowers”, mostly shown first by the specimens at the nodal and apical spaces.

Beside the internet noise, the vast majority of growers don’t have any interest in breeding. But more to find a way to be self-sustainable in term of final product and eventually, to consume grades of weed that no longer fit their needs : prices, quality, availability … if the equation of each stoner is different, the constraints not much.

So the vegetative stage of cannabis have this particularity : males, females and herms don’t show any reliable sex-linked traits during this phase.

I crossed the path of some growers able to detect by instinct a good ratio of females in large arrays, with tight deltas of errors each time. And when you try to draw a rational pattern, it’s nearly impossible. Mix of instinct, individual sensibility, experience … maybe a prehistoric reminiscence in our own DNA lol

I’m not a part of this club of rare specimens, but i understand them with my inherent bias : i literally “smell” the herms. For me they have a specific odor, latent or not, that i will describe as a specific range of musk. But it’s complementary with how i consider the shape, the experience on the line and my own sensibility as well. And i’m totally unable to explain it rationally.

Now let’s swim in something less funny and that i find really interesting to explain more in depth the sexuality during the vegetative stage : “reading” the DNA of seedlings to isolate the male from the females.

It’s not an esoteric thing like i just quoted previously, but a professional service offered among various type of company. From the most serious brand like Canna, to “home based” company operating this service to home kits that you can buy and use without any DNA engineering degree.

tecanArrays

This is the toy used by companies, i took for example a middle tier stuff. The range of the prices is quite wide and depend on the versatility, the capacity and the depth of datas harvested. From 4 digits to 6.
But it work the same way.

homePCR

This how look like a home kit.

Fundamentally, it’s the same shit and the same procedure. The difference being more a question of productivity and versatility Testing manually a dozen of specimen is not the same game than an arrays of thousands, and multi-testing each specimen even less. It’s not only used to detect males, but also to detect hemp genetic in the specimen, various pathogens, viroid and virus (covid and HLVd included), and much more.

Let’s restrict the sight to the sole sexuality in vegetative stage, and let’s dig how is working this kind of screening.

First the procedure itself, it help to demystify a bit the actual tools but also to put on the table something important in term of selection. One stone two birds. Don’t worry it’s not a tutorial of something you can’t really do in your kitchen ^^

sexPCR
adnPhase

The ADN step

The strategy vary as the requirement of the tools used but it’s all about to prepare the genetic material (for the subject, generally a sessile leaf) to be processed. The sample is “cleaned” from useless DNA, but also transformed in a “loud version” enough exaggerated to be readed. The reagents used are generally correlated with the detection aimed also, to “highlight” the portion requested.

pcrPhase

The PCR step

The tools (reagents included) used take the lead and to exploit the reaction. Shortly, it’s basically an oven than you set to have multiples cycles with multiples temps. From a simple centrifugal tool to a fully automated “all-in-one” unit that even deal autonomously with reagents. It permit what is called “amplification”, that you can consider as an exponential multilayered version of the original sample. Fundamentally, like a draw on a tracing paper that you multiply enough to be bold and clear.

adnDatas

The DATAS step

From there, the operator proceed the datas harvested. From a simple color reaction to complex multi-layered graphs in passing by something more close to a more wide sequencing. It’s where the differences of strategies become interesting to handle the further point of views more related to our dirty hands and underground crops (for most).

The cheapest/faster/easier way is to simply focus on the main cannabinoids. Females being prone to get you baked at the DNA level (still fresh seedlings), it’s a simple way to directly go straight to the point. Multiple strategies are available, more or less reliable, but globally it show very decent results for conventional grow (producing weed).

cannabnds

I gave a bit more than necessary in this diagram, but i think that it’s also an important point for a few collateral breeding’s considerations.

For now, let’s consider that the CBDa and the THCa are the pillars of PCR tests. It’s directly testing the potential of the plant at the DNA level the propension to be psychoactive, in an absolute way.

And it offer with smart reagents the results to split the males from the females and the herms.

The principle is simple : the males being not “build” to be directly psychoactive while flowered and even with the amplification of their DNA, their THCa and their CBDa levels are not enough strong to be highlighted during a PCR. Making the test quite ON/OFF in regard of the females and the herms.

For the PCR : not potentially dank = males.

Reagents are quite diversified in term of quality and specificities, but just in turning around the THCa/CBDa there is a ton of applications used.

At this step it’s already easy to known technically, then genetically, that the sexuality of the specimens are set from the seed formation. And that this sexuality at the DNA level is splitted only in two functional categories : male and female/herms.

chromweed

Now two new toys to dig a bit more the subject, one more known than the other : the chromatography.

My diagram of cannabinoids to present the actual pillars of a lot PCRs screening being a lot incomplete, it’s a good transition to enter in the flesh of what matter a lot in breeding : chemotypes, the ID card of a given genotype and by extend its variations in phenotypes. An amazing tool for breeding, with its own dead end traps. We enter more on pure biochemistry, but it have its importance. And yes, for sex linked traits ^^

To stay on the leads, consider that the chromatography have various declinations. Just like the reagents of PCRs, and that at one point of accuracy they can eventually become complementary.

  • Gas chromatography (one the most used since we test buds exhaustively) : fast and reliable, it’s declined in various types of detections that include also the measure of the mass. To stay short, an inert gas is used to project the compounds in the detector, then computed.

  • Liquid chromatography : Look like considered as the new Rolls with High Performance Liquid Chromatography (HPLC), but my technical level and my lack of exposure to this tool don’t help much to qualify this. It’s the same strategy than Gas Chromatography but gas is replaced by pressurized liquid.

  • Spectrometers : My use of this category is abusive, because it can be a modular option, but for the sake of the simplicity it concern mostly specialized toys that are very portative and cost effective, then more compliant with a “breeding on the field” from my point of view. The concept is to replace gas and liquid by an optical beam, giving reliable leads for breeding without unnecessary accuracy. I just want one asap.

Now back to practical breeding a bit, and with a share that matter a lot for me at this point. And that, after all this high tech show, can be quite disturbing i guess : to handle the refinement of a given chemotype, the “human guinea pig” stay the gold standard.

Like we saw a bit, the chain of precursors of cannabinoids is a messy one. By example, not all the THCa will be transformed in THC during decarb or drying process, directly and indirectly (THC have its own sub-compounds). You can apply this from the terps to the last cannabinoid of the chain. And this is this inefficient mess that give a soul and a specific high/stone to a specimen.

And it was quite easy to verify empirically if a breeding only dedicated to scientific performances can outperform a more traditional approach. Spoiler : it doesn’t, at all ^^

A bit more than 12 years ago and with the access to a pool of some (true) patients via Treating Yourself, two lines of my set were highlighted for their weight in a better recovery and /or better management of difficult equation in term of pain but also in term of comfort. Don’t worry, these lines were extinct for good in favor of bland fems pissed overnight at one point. Yeah a bit salty, but also to clearly say that there is no bible to sell right here and right now ^^

One was enough “narcotic” to help to lower and even cut off opiates, offering the freedom “to pass some good times” without being a zombie. This line was quite high in term of THC/CBN ratio.

The other was more like an emergency bud, hitting hard directly, not long lasting but totally unceiled with various profiles. The line was more rich than the others with a balanced high score in term of THC/THCv/CBN, and a daughter line of the first.

I took the decision to push further and to use the chromatography as the unique leverage to deal with the concerned chemotypes, just for the sake to get better averages on performances and on the human side. I just spammed Canna Spain with arrays of samples during three generations, and took my decisions solely with the results of the chromatography.

The failure was miserable because both totally lost their initial utility/value. The negative feedbacks were absolute and a true consensus. Not a single case/profile was working in the sense of this kind of selection lol

They even their “soul” in term of chemotype, from my point of view. And not specially more potent that the previous “traditional” revisions.

The first line was just reinforced drastically in THCa and CBN (lucky shots), the other in THCa and THC (more on averages streamlined on upper levels). Making it even more crazy to consider, it’s the same segment of the chain.

This (almost) little digression contain in fact for me the factual and empirical proof, as a farmer with leverages on genotypes, that the entourage effect is a practical leverage in breeding. And that nothing can replace the accuracy of human’s receptors to gauge a whole chemotype.

By extend, screening by PCRs large arrays of seedlings with the sole goal to only keep the stronger THCa averages don’t lead to any mechanical improvement in term of grade of the weed, following the same logic and experience as well. Machines never tell (for now) what will be transformed, losted and keeped at the phenotype level on the whole chain and what it mean in term of psychoactive balance.

adnElectrophoresis

Let’s return on the DNA matter for the latest tool i will present : the gel electrophoresis. It’s quite dangerous to picture it as the “next level” of a basic reactive PCRs that you can do at home without any genetician degree, specially when you use the same “amplification” or even the same genetical models to compare (called “primers” most of the time). It handle DNA, RNA and molecules. But the level of skills necessary and the very demanding procedure don’t make it a “possible toy” for most of us. You need people trained during years to don’t have biased results.

Just consider it as eventually more exhaustive in a way that it can offer less narrowed vision of what is studied, and it revolve around a compound i like quite a bunch lol The agar (i simplify, there is many sorts). Used in tissue culture, used in genetic applications, used in the shroom’s games and even to glue my high grade blunts (tutorial coming soon) ^^

The principle is not a big deal to handle : the genetic material is poured on an agar plate that is electrified (not high voltage) to pass the said material through the electrified porosity of agar. Not much different that making water hash with multiple microns sheets actually, same technical concept.

This is something you saw at least one time already, even if you’re not specially swimming in the breeding subject for your hobby. It’s the “datas” harvested by the process of the electrophoresis.

I will just quickly explain what you’re seeing, it’s less complicated that it looks. The goal of these results is just a male’s detection using the MADC model (MADC2 exactly). Over a dioecious samples (up) and monoecious samples (bottom).

Same concept that the PCR procedure we saw previously (amplification), but with a bonus in the soup called a “marker” that will reinforce (or instantly hybridize) a specific spot.

In the universe of the dirty hands the concept of genetic markers is used as well. As dumb that crossing a SPG to a Blueberry … then screening out all tinted seedlings massively during a BX program. Or using epigenetics leverages to highlight congenital chlorosis not linked with a variegation ^^ Elasticity baby !

On the top left you can see a column called “L”, for genetical ladder. It permit to compare and to “weight” the data. The numbers on left are just like the microns of your water-hash bags, the depth indicating a specific grade of the retained material. The difference being that with DNA, these grades indicate more an identity of what is retained. And the more highlighted, the more weight/amount stacked.

On bottom right, for the columns M and F, i must commit a blasphematory shortcut to keep it simple : let’s call it a “primer” that is acting like a model to read the results by comparison.

With all these explanations, you can already see in this agar (and many more) that the monoic specimens have some particularities :

  • Almost nothing amplified in the dioecious male’s range inside the monoecious specimens.
  • Monoecious specimens are following the dioecious female’s lead and structure like fucking clones.
  • The amplification of the dioecious male model can be superimposed on monoecious specimens quite well, if you ignore the unique portion lacking.

This Japanese agar is quite specific, and have a prevalent weight in my own grid of reading. The study is old, and i discovered it on the late, early 2000s. You can already see in this agar the difference of “yield” between the dioecious males and the dioecious females.

On left with arrow, the specific 730 bp band of males. In the center, a “primer” with its markers indicated on the right.

“A male associated DNA sequence in a dioecious plant, Cannabis sativa L.” (Koichi Sakamoto,1995)

Often quoted indirectly but not often taken in count in its context and as the reliable firestarter it was back in the days (for cannabis applications), it’s the genesis of the MADC(1) marker related to dioecious cannabis males. Since you can find various declinations identified by different numbers at the end : MADC2, MADC3, MADC4 …

What is interesting is the making of the MADC1, done with a RAPD strategy. The acronym mean Random Amplified Polymorphic DNA, to be short this is a method used when you don’t know shit on the initial DNA.

Basically the same case that when you have to map a new F1 10pack made from unknown parents; “unknown” being considered as “direct parental lines not already mapped previously”.

sexedseeds

Now it’s time to care about the chromosomes, and to come back a bit in the farm. In front of one seed, and in staying purely in the sexuality of cannabis, you have different levels of determinism.

The historical one.

Drug cultivars were improved in outweighing the dioecious form over the monoecious form. It simply permitted to obtain the modern “recreative” cannabis that we have. The simple term “sinsemilla” is an ode to this long and old journey.

The specificity of the sexual chromosome of cannabis

The male chromosome outweigh the female chromosome in dioecious expressions : simply because he carry the genotype mechanically by its polymorphism.

Making it a “bigger” container even in regard of its structural length or its capacity to print the females and the monoecious variations in the progeny. Which is not the case of females, that print only the monoecious variations. At the point to make feminized seeds reliables if the autosomal traits influencing the sexual expression are rightly screened for the selection of the pollen donor.

The weight of the autosomal traits in the expression of the genotype

And it belong entirely to the breeding strategies.

Monoecious x Monoecious = exponential increase of the part of autosomal traits, that at one critical point make the genotype almost fully epigenetic. The stability being then entirely dependant on the number of unwanted expression screened out and not the reverse : it’s how the hemp industry drive monoecious lines with two digits generations. It’s not an evolutive breeding, it’s a quantitative one in favor of the best traits.

And this is something that still today very darwinian with the grade of feminized releases, breeding monoecious lines with the rules of the dioecious lines don’t lead to a competitive grade. Because females can’t carry the genotype the same way than males, structurally but also in term of weight in the genotype.

conclusion

You have now all keys in hand to best handle the sexual expression of your cannabis ^^
Don’t forget the most important leverage on your kung fu : the elasticity of your mind.

screening

“Screening” and “screening out” isn’t specially a personal slang, but i’m using it quite extensively to express something a bit more methodic behind. The same expression can take different values : “screening a wounded line” don’t necessary mean for me the same dynamic that simply “screening the herms”.

And i like the image of gold panning. It have a bunch of similarities.

The spot : Like finding the right river and the right current to hunt, breeding is screening a genetic flow where currents are the subgroups. It project quite well i think that you have to learn the ground and to adapt to it.

The mud : You have to screen a lot of mud easily watered down to find the integer golden nuggets, and the ratio in term of volume is quite similar.

Let’s take what i’m doing the most since now one year : screening the herms.

I’m not doing it the same way with all strains and all lines. I adapt the leverages to trigger them accordingly to what is promoting them the earliest possible (to make space and replace them on the fly eventually), and for multi-strains rounds i’m dialing a common sweet spot. I don’t germinate lines randomly.

As you can see here in real time, i’m not really torturing them either. It’s important to find a juste middle to be also able to cumulate different kind of selective pressures and by this way, to gain time.

If you push too much an epigenetic factor, it’s specializing your round around it for the expressions you will get.

SELroots

Let’s say that for this line i’m aiming an improvement in term of yield from the previous generation. All seeds are launched directly in 12/12.

So i choose to discard from the reproduction all specimens below a certain level of root mass.

At this point i can cull the specimens below the standard aimed, to replace them with new seeds on the fly.
Or keeping them as “rejected” to map them : to find linked traits with low density of roots : to keep a failsafe living stock is shit happens but also just to fill the blunts.

SELrootsStretch2

The other constraint of selection is too screen out the auxin freak that stretch vigorously, because let’s say that the chemotype of the p1 from where it come isn’t interesting.

I can start to cull, then replace eventually by new seeds. But i keep the best representation of :

  • rejected specimen with not enough roots
  • rejected specimen with not enough roots + correct stretch
  • rejected specimen with enough root + incorrect stretch

Just to map this during the round (finding eventual linked traits), most of the time i keep them for the blunts but for the example let’s say i’m drastic and that i’ve enough stock of seeds of this line to launch them in loop to fill the holes.

SELrootsStretchHerm

Let’s say also that i’m applying an epigenetic leverage known to trigger herms in this hydro strain : long dry cycles in soil.

I generally keep the phenos around until it become dangerous, to see if the male’s flower take the lead on the female-herm or if the female flowers take the lead on the male-herm. It don’t change my will to discard them from the reproduction but can teach me what is the level of torque at work on herms.

SELrootsStretchHermSexPotency

At the end of the stretch, I take early samples to evaluate the potential of the specimens in term of potency (males and females) that let them the time to fully declare. Herms culled before the pistils become plushy.

This case can look quite hard compared to the magic punnett square filled by faithfull stoners but is quite realistic with an average commercial release today.

I’m ending in this example with a cornelian choice :

  • pollinate the female #1 and #5 with the male #6 to reinforce the root production on both progeny + the potency on the #5 potency.
  • create two lines with unique pairing : female #1 x male #3 (making an average), female #5 x male #6 (reinforcing roots/potency).
  • using only the best pairing of this set, and to wait for the next wave to be sure to get only the most of the line for the goal decided.

It’s something that can’t really be decided before having the plants under the nose, but it’s a moment to prepare at the start in writing your priority, the final goal and to note rightly the plant tags (with an extra like vigor by example). The total of datas collected will be the decisional help you eventually need.

My advice for the fresh meat to don’t be lost in front of the plants :
You want increase the potency and the vigor ? Make two parallel lines, and specialize them on one trait.

It will not increase the time needed if you germinate both lines at a time and screen them at a time also. But it will lower the pressure on you and make the game of linked traits way more easy to handle. You can plan a meeting later in generations, when you’re ready, when the line is more know or the both.

DiscourseOwned2
Ok let’s go for another post then ^^ This “little glossary” is vegging like a fucking California Indica lol
Fucking the Discourse limitations is becoming a personal challenge now :rofl:

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I’m glad you did not break OG with your overflow of text :smiley:

I’ve tried to browse it searching for History (lol), but it’s in such a shitty state that’s it’s impossible sadly. We’re left with the stories from the people that were there, thanks for sharing.

Ahah yeah. But things are evolving and there’s work (mostly in Romania) to raise a bit the CBD production up to the drug cultivar levels.

It’s funny because I soaked some seeds from a bag of CBD just for the sake of not killing better seeds while testing the veg space. Indeed it’s really eye opening. This things are vigorous and sturdy as hell, and at 15 days you can already see by the circonference of the trunks it’s meant for fiber. But it seems quite effective at raising nutrients in the plant too :slight_smile: They were sold as NL I think (ahah), but by their shape and vigor I feel like looking at shishkaberry seedlings :smiley:

No surprise :laughing:

Don’t abuse it though!:smiley:

I’ve come to that conclusion, as well as for the nutrition. Most of the parameters have to be as steady as possible and deviation noted (in a perfect world), unless it’s intended for testing.

Ahah, I posted that one just in the discussion because of the news about jodrey it contains, the rest is not really of interest (unless you want to dig in rebel grown)

Unless you do your own podcast, but let’s not do that haha

Did not think the paper on reveg would get you so crazy. :smiley:

I agree I found the underlying take interesting, trying to find a methodology of reproduction a bit better for real field production compared to micropropagation. That’s what lead me to read it. Now it’s still a bit long process, but maybe a bit more practical with some adaptation in the rotation cycles. The only interest of micropropagation in production I can see is that you can have backups in a fridge in case you loose your mother or she mutated too much. Too help in the mother maintenance. But that’s too finicky probably to be realistic.
But that paper seem to have some good insights on the plants. Lots are still way above my head, I saved some references for later, so thanks for yours comments too.

I stumbled onto another paper of interest last night, I’m not asking so much for comments, just because I think you’ll like it if you don’t know it already: Accumulation of somatic mutations leads to genetic mosaicism in Cannabis

Really interesting. Webinar version:

It indeed really balances the said advantages of clonal mothers rather than seeds.

One more day closer to your blunt!

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