Massive thank you! That is some high praise, my friend. It went through a bit of a name change from when I started it to now. It was just (mm x nh) x mg for a while but budderton put a name to her! He took one down probably a month ago but I think I may be the only other one with one indoors. Pretty sure hashplant and magu both have them outside 
Thank you big @Jim for the picture. I’ll find more from buddertons thread and throw them up later
It could definitely use its own automated feed setup! It’s in a 3 gallon and here at roughly week 8, it has a very robust root system and is tough to saturate. An automated setup would probably get some monsters if someone spent the time to grow these long flowering cuts inside. I’ll work my way towards one if I continue to rock these cuts in fairly small pots.
Don’t feel super happy about this round of flowers but here they are. Canopy got a bit out of hand as expected…but seeing it with my eyes is always worse than in my head 
anyway. And it’s warm in there. 94-95 at it’s hottest. Thankfully things will start to cool off in a week or two. Maze is most dramatic about the heat, but it’s good and dandy. It’s tough to water. I’d probably leave more space to top dress some moisture retaining shtuff next time or flower it sooner… (or bigger pot but that isn’t part of the plan)though I’ve stopped jlf stuff on her and basically abandoned the microbes there in favor of feeding her salts while rootbound. Everyone else still gets jlf/jms. And iso/Dr bronners sprays. And compost at week 2-3.
Nutrient note: I compared dry salts for a long ass time before deciding to buy another gallon of ventanas liquid ‘flower’. I don’t like that their commercial bloom blend has nitrate while the bottled flower doesn’t. It allows me to add micros and push p/k without extra nitrogen mid flower and I don’t want to have to work around nitrogen being in almost everything I use.
I’ve got to flower this stuff out. Got to flower this stuff out. Can’t start seeds, but the want is there. More SSDD f2, more TS x ssdd, goji, pagoda, more seeds.
Comparison of TS x SSDD #1 on the right, #3 on the left. #3 stretched just a bit less, tighter nodes and faster flower onset. Probably 5-6 inches shorter but went in at same height. Maze on the left there.
Pheno #4 has an interesting side branching trait. Almost wish I would’ve kept a cut of her to run but I’m curious to go through more seeds to find more like this. Almost perfectly straight lateral branches with really og type nugs. They’re fairly small, but pretty. I keep telling myself to take a picture and end up taking pictures of everything else. They’re coming.
TS x SSDD pheno #2 doing things. I’ve got cuts of this and am excited to give it a little more love next time. Seems to be ssdd leaning. Really sweet but nasty sort of smell. I like the smell here a lot. Same plant but different lighting. Very frosty cat.
What’s this? Maze. 8.5 weeks in. Furry was a good descriptor mrgreenjeans. Don’t let her leaves fool you, she’s okay. Could she deal with 10 degrees less heat and an extra watering per day? Uh, yes. Still filling out and doing well though.
Everybody. SSDD f2 up front is starting to turn it up. Didn’t keep cuts but she’s an exciting bush to stare at.
Tent looks packed and you’re going to have a lot of excellent bud.
How do you like the Ventana stuff overall? I used it for 1 plant in DWC a couple years back and I didn’t have the best results.
Thanks thanks.
It took me months to come around to enjoying their line. At first I had quite a few issues with it…now that I’ve been using it for a year, I actually really enjoy it. I don’t use their grow product whatsoever, so I use 4 parts.
Flavuh
Flower
Expand
Calmag(with N)
I don’t use them in accordance with the recommendations. So, I guess you could say I don’t like ventanas schedule or plan, but I do like their products? Haha it’s a weird question for me to answer because it’s hard for me to recommend them because of how much tinkering I had to. Which was ultimately not that much but enough that I don’t feel comfortable recommending it for others right away. I’ve also only ever run their line at 6.4ph. it may not do as well at 6 or lower for whatever reason, but when mixing, my mix comes out at 6.3-6.4 so I’m pretty happy with the blend I use. I can’t really give much feedback on their microbes as I’ve only used them a few times and I use other microbe life products so I can’t say for sure. I’m gearing up for a side by side run of organic vs ventana here but it’ll probably be at the start of the year. And it will likely be with syzys TS x ssdd #3. Curious to do a run 100% organic since I haven’t in almost 5 years and I’ve definitely learned a few things.
Awesome that you figured it out for your grow.
The plant I grew had no real terps. It was healthy and chunky, but not loud. I grew the clone in a mostly water only soil mix and it was much better. It could have been a different variable on why the smells were muted. I almost ran out of the Flavuh at the end and I didn’t want to buy another round of bottles, so I didn’t try the nute lineup again.
I ended up switching to a more organic soil/less bottle nutrient style, not because of that, but for other reasons haha.
I’ll be following along on your side by side run.
Agreed that looks more like the SSDD that I’ve run than any of the TS.
Ya the 10 day looks pretty nice after Friday. Tuesday was pretty disgusting here.
Didn’t realize you were running salts / hybrid. Any thoughts on dropping N later in flower to induce senescence, or is it not necessary? I saw jacks offers a 0-12-26 on their site and that had me wondering.
Man I get this. They ask you to use a fairly substantial amount for how small most of their suggested bottles are. Definitely a money grab in that aspect. I had to email them to get prices on what I wanted because half gallon flavuh wasn’t listed as a product they sold at the time. They will gladly sell you some sample pack but the usage rates vary enough that you will run out of all bottles at different times. I’m thinking about working things in and out but then I just debate why not go raw salts. Then it falls back to solubility. I will likely try to replace flavuh with fish aminos in the near future to see if it gives the same effect. That will also allow me to abandon the bottles a little… I really only consistently use flavuh because it was partially designed to help with solubility and keep everything in suspension for longer. I’m a fan of that.
Yeah… haha I find myself flip flopping on what is “easiest”. Bottles can be super simple and can be reasonably priced. Organics can be cheap as can be but needs more forethought. So, easy is how you choose I guess. Quality is such a weird debate because it’s hard for me to accurately compare organics from a few years ago to salts now.
I do whatever feels right… haha sorry for the chaos. I still plant in amended prommix. Veg gets jlf/jms and compost. Then pretty consistently about a week before I flip I start to ramp up the salts. Based on most other styles, it’s definitely weird, but I don’t know. Still exploring salts and microbes and the like. I do drop nitrogen around week 5-6. Mostly for smoke and flavor and smoothness. My stance on senescence is that if a plant will fade, it will fade. Extra nitrogen can impair that, but ammoniacal nitrogen is sort of the worst in my view because the plant can’t really block its uptake at all. Ventana suggests to run flavuh(4-0-0) through week 7-8 but I didn’t like the harshness of the smoke then. Those plants still got lots of color though…so some nitrogen doesn’t seem to matter when it comes to senescence in my case. Probably a case of plants regulating uptake based on point in season. I also flush for 12-14 days and that will usually cause whatever senescence is possible for most plants. So… haha I do drop nitrogen, but don’t do it for color. I also am not personally interested in ever dropping temps to show color. Sure, it can, but I’d rather it come from other stuff haha it just doesn’t sit right with me. I think if the plant is healthy and not being force fed at the end of its life, senescence is a totally natural phenomenon. All that to say I do like to run their flower into week 6-7-8 until I start to flush because it is nitrogen-less and flavuh has some. Long-winded, but there you are haha
Plant more seeds! Haha
You know how some people comment on full tent shots and say “it looks like a jungle in there”? That Maze plant looks like a jungle all by itself haha.
I used to do something similar w/ nutes outdoor. Would go au naturel for a couple months then add in a few Nectar of the Gods bottled lines (they’re a hybrid organic/salts product) during flower. Seemed to work for me…
Looks like you have a great reference point and high bar to shoot for when you do the side by side comparison w/ full organic.
The tent is looking full @DirtySlowToes ! Your Maze looks much better then mine did at the same amount of time flowering. These long seasoned cultivars are a bitch to keep happy. The ones i had looked on the brink of death from about wk 10 on but continued to make new flushes of pistils and added up to a decent sized cola that smoked nice with uplifting effects. All in only 16-20 wks!
Best of luck with the rest of your run!
Lol that maze looks insane! Ive never in my life see bud like that. I dont know how i would feel if someone sold me a bag of that back im highschool lmao
I used to do this too! It’s how I got started. Vermicompost/coco and pretty much just used medusas magic from nectar and catalyst from earth juice(sugar). Then I jumped into organics with both feet and this is now the first time ever I’m running primarily salts in flower. Now that I’ve got some handle on it, I’d like to see both side by side. Organics were/are kind of my first passion, but education has happened haha I’m now in the camp of growing good weed.
You are so right! Hah in the ground? No problem. In a 3 gallon pot? She wants bigger shoes. I may give her a little replant here soon or just stack her into a small layer of soil in a wider pot to let her roots go outwards more. We will see where they are in another 2-3 weeks. Just about halfway 
Hahah and they probably would’ve chopped it at 9 weeks and given you a miraculous bag of way underripe stuff. I remember asking for sativas when I first started buying from people and rather than “what kind?” Or whatnot, folks would usually ask why. That would’ve been a cool ass dealer though to be pushing long flowering sativas. I would’ve been all over it.
I never had it like that. I realized early on that it was pretty odd whenever i was looking for a specific strain they would have it everytime😂
I just started going off of smell after that. Who has that gas.
I probably never even had a sativa on the street now that i think of it
I bought the sample pack and complained because the flavuh bottle only lasted through about 1/4 of the other bottles. They were nice enough to send me more for free. I didn’t like how low of concentration the bottles were. 10-15 ppms per ml so I had to use 10-15ml/gal of specific bottles… seems overly watered down.
I might try some of the expand during the middle of flower this run. I have a good amount left and that barley malt extract interests me.
My experience is if you can keep the plant relatively healthy and happy, then it doesn’t matter organics vs salts. You’ll get the same or close to the same results in regards to quality, but of course higher yield and faster growth with bottles.
Sometimes I miss my DWC days of flipping 30 days from seed and harvesting 4-5+ ounces every time.
“What the heck is this stuff, anyway!?!?”
I imagine it’ll look pretty wild when dried and bagged. …All that “hair” wrapped around the buds.
Maybe you started something haha when I ordered my sample pack, they doubled the flavuh without extra charge they claimed. So I got two little bottles but when they suggest 3ml/gallon, 4oz goes quickly. I hadn’t measured them that way but that’s a really good way to think about it. I guess my soil/ferments/compost allow me to go a bit lighter on them? I use flavuh at roughly 2.5ml/gal, flower usually at 10-11ml/gallon, expand between 3.5-7ml/gal, and their support at usually 6-7.5ml/gal. Sometimes bump support up to 9-10ml/gal to get frisky. So you’re right. It’s definitely a fair amount. I guess the good part for me is that I only water roughly 2 gallons per day so I don’t go through it too crazily. Most bottles I’ve used usually land somewhere in this range though…I’m not too aware of more concentrated brands. Enlighten me 
I do like the expand though. Sugars, pk, aminos… I’ve noticed some plants can take a lot of it. I use to max out around 5ml/gal and then slipped and did 6.5ml/gal for two feeds and saw things swell, so now I do bump it mid flower.
Ah. The debate!! Haha I agree and disagree. It’s such an annoying argument to have, but I believe the ceiling of quality to be higher with organics but the standard of quality is through the roof with salts. It’s such a toss up…there’s so much we don’t know so it’s hard to say we are giving them everything perfectly with salts but you can’t really say organics give them anything you don’t know it gives them. Haha but I do sort of disagree with the speed thing. It all breaks down into anecdotes sort of and I do understand that with salts you are able to force uptake by plants, but I’m not really of firm belief that forcing a plant to uptake more nutrients makes for better quality. I don’t know. Growth rates should be equal in ‘perfect’ soil and a well maintained hydro setup unless you’re forcing uptake… and if you’re forcing uptake, maybe your quality standards like biomass or overall cannabinoids harvested go up but not necessarily the quality of the buds themselves. I always end up thinking about chicken from a butcher vs tube fed chicken from the store. Not saying we can’t beat nature or manipulate it for our benefit, but anyway. I used to flip 28-35 days from seed and pulled 3-5 zips from organics direct sown in 5 or 7 gallons… haha oz/gallon was my old standard. But I’ve also seen someone flip clones every 20 days in coco and pull 2-4oz off those and that sort of blew my mind… stupid harvests but a lot a lot of maintenance. he was feeding raw salts but not sure brands or recipe. Sorry for the rant. Thanks for the fire
Oh good they changed it. sweet.
I’ve been using most of the Remo stuff for my last couple salt runs. It’s easy to use and about double the amount of PPMs per ml in the bottles. The botanicare is about double the 20-25 ppms per ml too. So overall the amount of ml of nutrients per gallon of water used was 20-30% lower.
I was doing DWC, so I was doing reservoir changes every week or two. I was mixing 40-50 gallons a week, so I went through the grow and flower bottles real quick to reach my EC target. Seems to me if I have to feed 15+ml/gal, maybe be the grow and flower bottles should be a touch less diluted.
The structure has a lot of PPMs in it, like 35-40 per ml… that one is good haha. So again it’s like, they have one that is high concentration and the two main ones (Grow and Flower) much lower. It was more of a pet peeve then anything bad about the nutrients themselves.
If it seems like I am pooping on your nutrients or your grow, I am not and I sorry if it comes off as such. I was just sharing some of my thoughts and experiences with those nutrients. I’m not trying to convince you to switch or change anything you are doing. I’m here to learn.
The growth in DWC vs soil is not even close imo. Having dissolved oxygen straight to the roots… they go zoom zoom. Maybe it’s forcing uptake, but I kept my feed low EC 1.2-1.6 and seemed to do well.
Oh damn, I have to get on your level haha. But hey, that’s why I’m following along.
Oh right on. Your last harvest looks great!! No offense taken here at all. I’m not too attached to ventana and I’m genuinely curious about more concentrated products, I’m just weird about ingredients. I looked at remo for a while and have used one or two of his products… magnifical or whatever it is called definitely and I can’t remember the name of the other bottle right this second. I read some things about edta not vibing with soil so that’s why I hopped off his and why I’m not super hot on drip. I think edta is meant for a more sterile environment. I don’t think I have too much negative about botanicare but I’ve only seen them be used and not had first hand experience. It worked great though. I’ve also never run dwc, so you could be totally right and it may blow away everything I’ve expected. 40-50 gallons per week is definitely a lot… Those extra few ml would add up quickly. I haven’t really directly compared concentrations before. Thanks for putting that in my head.
Lol I don’t think I’m anywhere you’re not! I probably just got lucky with good dirt and good lights. I was also cramming like 2200w into a roughly 6x7 space…hard not to yield from that. And I don’t really know much about dwc. Do you like sips/organics more? What made you switch?
I love DWC for how clean and fast it is, but I like SIPs the best. I feel it is easy to over feed in DWC, so I get better natural plant expressions in organics. SIPs make it me proof so I don’t over water haha.
I switched mainly because I wanted to run more plants and (for me) soil is easier to keep plants smaller and let them sex. SIPs and pots are a lot less daily work and I wanted to learn organics, so I had to go all in to do that.
they’re being fed back up and whatnot. I’m aware they aren’t the prettiest! Let’s hope for continued success though 
