Yeah I don’t really like the neem smell, the peppermint helps. I rotate the neem w a few different oils, the bronners helps them all smell quite a bit better.
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I can relate to that, neem smells god awful
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Babies look great. You mentioned microbes and I’m curious where you source microbes?
Thanks
Peace
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I predominantly shop at my local garden center or grow shop. Here’s the two microbial products I have at the moment.
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Peace All. I have to ask any chance of any1 having some of these f2’s?? I missed out on the run and would like to get some if any1 is willing to part with them. Lemme onow… Be safe… 
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I could be wrong, but i believe this is a Co-op seed run, and at some point in time, there will be a sign up list. You’re not late, you’re early. 
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PTB is correct. These have been approved for the spring ‘23 coop box, but they will be F3’s. If things go well, I’ll have a sign up posted once we are into flower and seeds are imminent. We got through the first big hurdle, aka seed popping, a little bruised but nothing too terrible, lol. Big ups to Kcity for coming through! We’re gonna take another month to get comfy, spread out our roots. And then it’ll be time to flip and start looking for some stable breeding partners to make seed with.
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First off they are looking great, will be watching!
Ever considered Azamax? I spray neem oil concoctions outdoors, and Azamax indoors. I generally spray it in between a D.I.Y Trifecta mix and I can smell that over the Azamax anyday. Azamax almost has a muted calm scent to it, doesnt seem to wreck your senses like neem can, at least for me.
The main essential oils of Trifecta are: Clove, rosemary, geranium, peppermint, garlic, and thyme. This mix makes for quite a pungent garden, I always spray this right before if folks are visiting, keeps the insects and people away 
Little bit of a tangent here but have any of you used mustard oil (possibly in conjunction with the aforementioned oils above) in your IPM regiments? Some anecdotal evidence shows that it has great potential for killing pathogens, namely Fusarium. Its going into the regiment soon enough, I have started to pre-treat my medium with a drench before planting, want to see if it helps any.
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I’m not familiar w it, do you know what its active ingredient is?
I rotate between a few given products at a time. Neem is usually one; it’s trustworthy, I know it works, but it’s not safe for flower at all, and I don’t enjoy it’s scent. I also have right now a garlic and essential oil blend and a Sesame / fish potassium sorbate based mix. I will use these second two in early flower if it’s necessary.
I’ve used rosemary and geranium oil based products in the past with good results.
I will also usually do at least one sulfur treatment in veg as well. Just have to be careful not to mix oil and sulfur, that makes for unhappy.
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Azamax is pretty gnarly stuff. It is supposed to be effective, but has the potential to be dangerous. I bought a bottle but haven’t used it - ended up throwing out all my plants instead (due to broad mites). I also purchased the Tyvek suit and other protective gear that is recommended. Exercise caution…
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Yea I will stick w my oils and soaps and sulfur routine.
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It is technically a natural product, but you want to avoid breathing or any skin contact with it.
I did ok with Dr. Bronner’s peppermint soap and rosemary oil. Dr. Zyme’s was fine too. The broad mites were entrenched by the time I figured out what was going on. It was better for me to trash it all, sanitize, let it sit fallow for a couple months, sanitize again, then only grow from seed. No more clones from other gardens for me…
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Yeah I rarely take in outside clones, so I haven’t had the terrible pest issues that can lead to. I do regularly send my plants outdoors and mix up my indoor and outdoor soils, and add compost and soil from my garden, so I do need a routine for ipm. But so far I never wind up with issues that get past my veg stage for indoors with just these types of oil based products.
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Oh well thats ironic; its all the “good” of neem, rather the active chemical otherwise known as azadirachtin. This is the component in neem oil that acts as an antifeedant and growth disruptor. In any case I was just trying to help you out with your neem smell issue, Azamax is pricey but it goes a long way and works much better than neem oil in my indoor experiences. I also love to use neem oil too, I have gone through gallons of neem over the years, not just for cannabis use. I use it in the shower! I even use neem meal as an amendment, and personally think that smells even better than the oil 
Honestly it is quite safe, if you are new to safety data sheets they are pretty boiler plate as far as organic compounds with little to no toxicity with human contact go, heck I bet even on the fermented citric acid insecticides SDS you would find similar wording. Perhaps it scared you a little bit?
I too have a tyvek suit, respirator, goggles I only use that for spraying the “bad” stuff outdoors, and generally stick with the respirator and goggles indoors (sometimes not at all if Im feeling lucky) Im not fumigating the damn place! With that said I dont spray anything during flower, fuck that.
As far as sulphur goes, I love using that as a foliar dip for clones and small vegetative plants but sure do hate the residue left over when brushing up against the plants. Now thats what makes me feel uncomfortable to breathe, and have some precaution about, but this is my necessary evil for mite control.
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Jeezus…if that’s recommended I don’t want it on my weed.
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This is what I do as well. For seedlings and clones, I use a mister/sprayer to only water the base around the plant. Once the root system is established, I water thoroughly for run off.
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In nature, a poison is wrapped within its antidote.
Neem = safe
Azadirachin ≠ safe
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Jumping in on the gnat issue, our brother @Tracker turned me on to a hack that has eliminated my gnat issue. Poly-Fill Batting. He uses a heavier batting (almost like felt) than I do (thinner more fluffy) but the moisture retention is worth it alone. The gnats are gone because the batting dries out very quickly and prevents passage to and from the media surface.
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Development & Modification of Bioactivity
Azucena Gonzalez-Coloma, … Braulio M. Fraga, in Comprehensive Natural Products II, 2010
3.09.2.2 Azadirachtin/Dihydroazadirachtin
Azadirachtin is extracted from the neem tree (A. indica A. Juss). The tree is an attractive broad-leaved evergreen, which is thought to have originated in Burma. It is now grown in the more arid subtropical and tropical zones of Southeast Asia, Africa, the Americas, Australia, and the South Pacific Islands. The neem tree provides many useful compounds used as pesticides. The most significant neem limonoids are azadirachtin, salanin, meliantriol, and nimbin.9 Products containing azadirachtin can be used in a wide range of crops, including vegetables (such as tomatoes, cabbage, and potatoes), cotton, tea, tobacco, coffee, protected crops and ornamentals, and in forestry. Azadirachtin has several effects on phytophagous insects and is thought to disrupt insect molting by antagonizing the effects of ecdysteroids. This effect is independent of feeding inhibition, which is another observed effect of the compound.1,10 The antifeedant/repellent effects are dramatic, with many insects avoiding treated crops, although other chemicals in the seed extract, such as salanin, have been shown to be responsible for these effects. Azadirachtin is sold by a large number of different companies as an emulsifiable concentrate (EC) under a wide range of trade names. Azadirachtin-based products are widely used in India and are increasingly popular in North America, where they have found a place for garden use and in organic growing. Azadirachtin is considered to be nontoxic to mammals and is not expected to have any adverse effects on nontarget organisms or on the environment.
Azadirachtin, a neem biopesticide: subchronic toxicity assessment in rats
R B Raizada 1 , M K Srivastava, R A Kaushal, R P Singh
Affiliations
- PMID: 11313114
- DOI: 10.1016/s0278-6915(00)00153-8
Abstract
Azadirachtin, a biopesticide obtained from neem, was subjected to subchronic toxicological testing to document its safety for use as a pesticide. Azadirachtin technical 12% orally administered to male and female rats at doses of 500, 1000 and 1500 mg/kg/day for 90 days did not produce any signs of toxicity, mortality, changes in tissue weight, pathology and serum and blood parameters. It can be suggested that azadirachtin at the highest dose tested is well tolerated by rats of both sexes. The highest dose, 1500 mg/kg, can be used as a basal dose for the determination of the no-observed-effect level (NOEL) of azadirachtin to calculate its safety margin.
CAUTION MAY CAUSE VISUAL UPSET, ADHERE YOUR FILTER AT ONCE, I REPEAT SUIT UP
Sorry to derail your thread @catapult but cant stand to see misinformation spread when we have the resources at hand.
Once again SDS are standard for ALL insecticides, legally these words of caution must be present. Yes there are instances where PPE is absolutely needed and should be used, but we can also use our resources available to become familiar with the unfamiliar. Its a big scary world out there 
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Do you throw it out after one cycle? No pathogen issues yet? Interesting…
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