In another week or two, I plan on dusting a branch on each of those with PAB 2.0 pollen. I assume that I can follow the normal path to autoflower, but what will I see for leaf structure in the F1 and F2s?
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anything and everything i think. a photoperiod pinnate with an auto bastard… terps and flower structures might vary a lot at f2. all the fun stuff pops out then ^^
from what i’ve heard abc and freaks don’t tend to blend well. they like to keep separate distinctions in the f2 but it’s possible as hybridized versions [with lemon thai]
thanks for sharing! i’m thrilled you have both sets of freak genetics hit with the lemon thai. and that they look so rockin’! 
p.s. i’ll be doing a mini-update shortly. wanted to address a few things people have said previously
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that’s one of the traits that my Jr Mint x MAC1 had, as well. Those mini-leaflets, and the mini-tridents.
So anyways. my Cape Goat strain is a jr mint mac1 x lemoncello x pineapple express. and that’s my fern-leaf male right now. breeding that against the other PE crosses, so they all had the same father from last year’s male.
I’ll be phenohunting some fern leaf females, then reversing them, and making selfie fem seeds. Seems like the right thing to do. eh?
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left side
right side
clones of the 4 selected gringos - lanceolate type with variegations. i’ll plant them tomorrow.
in veg - hyperion, tentazione, mnogolistka, pt dooligah, tk dooligah, gringo limon
i have 1 male of tk dooligah he’s real lemony and was quite nice before i chopped him down outdoors. i also have 1 gringo limon male and he hasn’t quite been the same since i chopped his top and turned it into another plant lol. we’ll see what happens between the clones and donors when they’re planted.
onto outdoors [location 2 will have to be later] …
tk dooligah male [big boy] smells a lot different than his brother with a very odd structure
what i find most fascinating about him is that he doesn’t have any central flower clusters. i’ve had plenty of males now that had flowers all the way down to the root base but never have i seen such an open frame. it should be cool to see if there’s any difference between him and his brother in the f1s they produce. this guy will be outdoors [now] and the brother indoors in a month or so.
onto his acceptors 
tkd2 - the tallest female
it seems pistils just beginning to show, some of them brown already
ptd1 - this girl has kicked on a bit faster than several of her tk cousins!
it looks like some of those new emerging pistils might be browning as well!
tkd1 - loved this girl since she started overtaking her sisters in terms of size. she’s always been resilient in terms of withstanding nature here and we’ve had some wicked strong winds.
eager to see what the near future brings
it is not without loss however. most of the worthwhile gringo plants turned out to be male. the large ptd9 which i thought was female, turned out to be male. the largest plant i had which was hyperion, was bent over sideways several times and thus, only had 1 tiny section of roots supplying the plant. it was pretty much dead with no hopes of returning. fortunately i have the clone in veg and she is a happy camper!
i also found out several houses away from me a guy has been breeding canna for like 20+ yrs. most of the crosses i’ve done outdoors previously probably have some of his pollen in my plants and mine in his. he wondered why last year his genetics changed. well this year he didn’t allow any males and only kept 2 females for flower so i got lucky but moving forward it’s probably impossible to keep either of our crops ‘pure’ as he knows of other growers who have started less than a mile away.
if i’m able to continue growing here long-term i will have to contend with the outdoor for what it is. i’ve decided not to pursue seed sales of any kind for the time being, with around 40% of the stock i wanted to sell possibly contaminated. 
i’ll just work mutants as i can, when i can. i’m really tempted to give a couple of my regular strains a go over the winter because i don’t have to worry about the stealth aspect to it. some of my options include roadkill og, a rks hybrid, ed rosenthal superbud, and dragonsblood hashplant, along with 3 or 4 different fems which could be quite nice to make random f1s with. alternatively i’ve thought about taking tentazione or invictus to f3 with f2s i’ve made. i could do some testing with aquaponics too with mnogolistka and see if i can’t tame one of the males into being photoperiod. too many decisions 
i’ll pick one eventually… for now i have 2 main crosses to do. tk dooligah lemon male into all the dooligah stuff. then gringo limon to make f2s with the 3 selected females.
really thrilled to see so many people getting into mutants and what people have and are working with!!! i can’t say this enough. it’s awesome to see what people are doing. just wait until everyone realizes when we all breed our own mutants with everyone else’s mutants they will make f1 mutants and we can then find the best plants the same way modern plants are pheno-hunted!
@Magu - holy smokes your Duckwebs are nice! it’s really cool to see that, like advertised, it seems to be a true ibl. my females looked really similar to yours! i hope to do a webbed cross next year with duckwebs in there!
@Sbeanonnamellow - if you are looking to buy webbed genetics i would highly suggest acer 1 and nigerian duckfoot as well as duckweb ibl. you’ll get the other 2 for similar to the duckweb ibl. acer 1 and nigerian ducks you’ll have 45 seeds vs 11.
@Tao - love your collection of duck genetics! do you have any specific plans when hunting for breeding partners? with that many different genetics i’m sure you’ll find every smell and flower structure/time you could imagine! real keen to see what you do with them! congratulations for being able to find so many. a few of them i’ve never known to exist before now so, thank you as well.
@synapse57 - love your work too! if you have a pinnate male and he’s pollinated everything it’s more likely you’ll find pinnate specimen with pineapple express as a lineage contributor than any particular outcross. like everyone else i’m sure, we’re real keen on seeing what you can find in your seeds!
@beanboy - when you say creeper phenos do you mean creep along the ground like a vine or do you mean creeper in smoking it?
for the discussion on webbed types, i have no clue personally. i’m just happy to explore the genetic potential of the several varieties i do have. i do want to take my duckweb and breed them into acer 1, nigerian duck, and one i’ve been able to source from a grower in hawaii, molokai duck. 
i figure the f1s between them will be fun to explore and i hope to make my own duck line eventually between what i’m able to find. everything else, i’m happy to see what people are able to uncover. i personally find it kind of strange that i’ve seen no mention of the age of duckweb other than Tao’s photo. i’d love for it to be true but who knows what is marketing these days and what is truth. it’s hard to tell with this plant. i say, through breeding we can be certain.
@BIGJ - if i understand genetics correctly 50% comes from either parent, in all beings. what is expressed and what is recessive typically is where things get fuzzy. it will take all of us experimenting and testing with mutant genetics to fully understand how it works but who knows, maybe we’ll never fully know lol. life creation is something special.
sorry to make everyone read all that but yeah, here we are - crazy as ever 
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Super cool to read this thread and see the different genetics and inheritance patterns with the mutants!
I’m not currently living somewhere legal to grow so had someone in California start growing my seed collection to reproduce, oldest seeds are ~10 yrs old now. First one I had them reproduce was Subterfuge1, wanted to share it in this thread.
Had poor germ rates and also fried a few plants during germination, ended up with 3 females and 1 male in total for the open pollination
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creeper pheno like on the floor 
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Thank you for jumping in here. Sharing your knowledge and experiences with us is greatly appreciated.
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but why is it ideal? yeah quicker is nice but getting to autofreak in f2 is better? then f3 why better?
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ideal to me carries the connotation of efficiently used time.
there are many ways to skin a cat but i only care about the one that doesn’t wear me out when taken to scale. i’d have to germinate twice as many seeds if the hit rate for desired traits is only 12.5% vs 25%. twice as many germinated means twice as much work, to me.
there is probably an intense discussion lurking about what is better but i’m not touching that with a 10-foot pole
nothing is better, probably 
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for sure. Efficiency is key. But twice as many seeds doesn’t bother me. I just drop 2 or 5 seeds in a pot instead of 1 and bam 200- or 500 to choose from instead of 100. Just cull away. Freak leaves show up right away. Its not like i’m waiting to see who carries that gene.
I guess i am potentially loosing f1 vigor when Bxing.
I hope my beans are still desirable.
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they will be. you grow some healthy monsters. if you don’t mind hunting they will be found 
have no fear you’ll find what you seek.
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Almost all my other plants are from the same PE Male plant, from last summer. same as the male from right now. So. that should really increase the chances of finding something good.
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Thanks for posting these… As someone who has never grown a mutant, I haven’t been able to really see what’s-what with them… Cool pics 
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This guy finished off with a nice purple fade. That’s the one that fern fan leaf is from. This is Cape Goat. Jr Mint MAC1 x Lemoncello x Pineapple Express
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Just fanning out the neighborhood? Who did you knock up with that?
Freakshow male x Banana Daddy auto back to Freakshow.
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update time:
veg [17]:
- hyperion
- tentazione
- mnogolistka
- pine tar dooligah
- tk dooligah (2 females, 1 male)
- gringo limon (3 females, 1 male, 1 webbed unknown)
tentazione and hyperion going vertical. mnogolistka and pine tar dooligah will join them when more room becomes available. a bit crammed right now…
gringos
dooligahs and a mnogolistka clone trying to reveg fitting in nicely
the webbed one i decided to keep because extreme variegations and maybe someone will want to grow out some of it’s seeds. if it’s male it should be interesting because i’ll do 1 round with 1 male (lanceolate) and 1 round with the webbed male.
subtle variegations on my favorite lady. these definitely aren’t yellow-on-green but i wouldn’t say it’s green-on-green either. whichever the case is, i really like this plant, and i have yet to see her flower… good stuff incoming!
flowering:
tkd #2 - interestingly showed the same sativa structure as the tkd5 male. no flower formations on the stem except the very ends. peculiar.
one of the taller ladies in veg, but never really took off except ‘up’.
ptd1, still the best abc i have grown to date. there’s something special about this plant.
tkd girl with the best flower structure. none of the other ladies are anywhere near close to this ladies flower size. should be tons of f2s so i’m hoping this particular lady makes regular-sized seed. abc can be notorious for producing tiny seed. we’ll see with this one.
too fried to remember if this was the previous plant or another
whoops!
tkd1 female. this one seemed like the very best all throughout veg and now she’s really starting to get into her element. hoping the two tkd females which got really large continue to develop as we transition into fall here. another 5 weeks and snow will be here.
if they don’t finish before then we will see how they tolerate freezes.
there’s a few gringos in the yard but none of them are noteworthy except this lady:
anyone know what this is? i absolutely love them…
location 2:
- outdoors - 4 mnogolistka left, 1 harvested
- indoors - 3 tentazione left, 1 harvested
tentazione is literally the strongest strain i’ve ever tried. it’s magical. at some point in the near future i will be doing a seed run on these to take them from f2 to f3. the apple fritter taste combined with the raunchiness from the invictus line is really second to none. here’s some bud porn:
this is the harvested lady… the remaining 3 still stand.
group shot:
ok so on the mnogolistka outside… well… i forgot to take photos for og. i took a video for my channel but photos i didn’t think of in time before the sun went down. so i have a couple ‘chop’ photos which will have to suffice until i chop the other 4 plants down.
mnogolistka [to me] has a lemon balm, beeswax, and astringent smell with a hint of raw earthiness not found in any strain i’ve ever tried. there are some CBDs etc in there but it’s predominantly a thc cultivar. very very indica. 100% frontal lobe type of stone. makes some couchlock but it just makes me hungry. my brother finds it to be inebriating but i find it to be about half as mild as the tentazione. really pleasant smoke. not too strong but strong enough to go, damn that’s good for not being that good.
looks like i’ve hit some kind of photo cap so next post will continue
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group shot:
mnogolistka top. literally just the top. very very large but loose structure. i noticed all females outdoors the calyxes have this weird trait where they’re never fully closed. all the tips of the calyxes are open, i assume to allow oxygen exhange. probably makes it very mold resistant. i haven’t found any so far so ^^ and we’ve had 3 inches of rain more this season than last fall.
here’s a closer look at the central cola, sorry i haven’t yet taken pics of the buds without leaves. too much work to do all the time
last but not least here is the final photo of the tkd5 male [big boy sativa]:
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Queen Annes Lace.
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