If you were breeding full on webbed abc where both mutants were dominantly displayed, that’d be true, they’d be stuck there, and every plant would have 2 copies of each. But when you cross plants that are het for the genes, its like the F1 parents each have half the gene, and the other half is regular weed. Those other halves that are normal match up during the reshuffling and take up both sides of the gene spot. Its more like DD and BB got bred to be DdBb F1s where the lower cases are normal weed. You end up with babies that are all different combos like ddBb and Ddbb, and ddbb(regular).
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I think the problem here is that your still picturing it as spot where there can only be 2 letters. But those genes aren’t in the same spot. So really theres one spot with one mutation, and one spot with another mutation. The so each mutant holds the key to making regular weed for the other one. If you get what I’m sayin.
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I apologize, but I don’t understand. If the ducksfoot allele is dd and the abc allele is bb, there are no genes for regular weed leaf involved. The only possible combinations in the Punnet square involve these two recessive genes. It’s the split combination of d&b that results in the regular weed leaf, isn’t it? Unless, there’s more than one gene for leaf type, in which case, it’s an entirely different ballgame.
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yes thats what I’m sayin. different genes for leaf type. Probably lots of them. But the mutations hit a certain area. So that area is ok in the other mutant and can “fix” the mutation even if thats not what we’re going for.
As long as there are all regular looking F1s, I think you can assume any combos are in different areas. If the different mutations are in the exact same spot, or I believe even close sometimes, then they can potentially make weird F1s.
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Is this correct? I didn’t think it was possible to get “db” in an F1 since “db” is the recessive part. Wouldn’t it be “DB”? This is what makes the F2 hunt so important! That’s where you have the chance to find those oddball recessive plants. Here’s a good example. I’m growing out Giant Pur Pur Hibisbus Kush 2.0 F2 lol. I sprouted 12 seeds. 3 didn’t make it and 9 survived. From those 9, I only got 1 female phenotype of Giant Pur Pur (#5). I did get a lanceolate pheno but the thing is staying short so definitely not giant pur pur! Now, if I take some of the duckfoot pur purs and cross them together, in my mind there’s absolutely no way I can pull a giant pur pur out of a duckfoot F2, unless it was backcrossed to the pur pur or something. Once I remove the GPP from the ‘pool’ if you will, there will be no way for me to breed back to it with it’s progeny. You can only do that with a backcross to the original parents or an outcross.
In your real life example you thought you had a ‘db’ when in reality it was more likely ‘Db’. At least that’s how I’m reading it. Maybe I’m way off idk 
Thank you for pointing this out! This helps for aspiring breeders who don’t know how recessives work yet.
Are you forgetting that there should be dominant expressions of those traits too? Of course we seek the recessive traits but you should have ‘D’ and ‘B’ expressions as well as ‘d’ and ‘b’ expressions.
In this example duckfoot and ABC are both P1 and P2. When you cross them, your progeny can’t be ‘db’. That would be implying that the F1 passed down recessive traits, which we know isn’t the case. The F1 shows dominant traits. The F2 dominant plants (regular) typically shouldn’t breed mutants no matter how hard you try. They will take the line into a ‘regular’ direction. You HAVE to pull the mutation out in F2 otherwise it gets buried in all the other traits.
Here’s some food for thought:
Menthol Skunk - BF 7s big menthol pheno x BF var 2 F2
BerryFreak - BF var 2 F2 x BF var 2 F2
Both strains from the same seed batch. Now if BF var2 F3 seeds are nearly 100% pinnate, what can we deduce from this knowledge? Well first, BF var2 F3 is mostly pinnate progeny, while the Menthol Skunk F3 cross only has about 25% pinnate. So we can assume that the BF 7s big menthol is actually a regular strain, because MS only throws out about 25% pinnate specimens. The Menthol Skunk progeny show up 25% pinnate, 75% heavily serrated (freakshow carrier). Now the interesting thing is, the ‘regular’ Menthol skunk in theory should also be carriers for the Freakshow gene. It can’t be though, or there would be more than 25% pinnate offspring. It’s truly fascinating to see how all this plays out in the real world imo!
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Update time! Sorry I’ve had a lot going on. I haven’t been as cavalier in throwing the updates up as I wanted to be. Hopefully in the coming weeks I can post a lot more photos of everything. I have so many plants it’s hard to take just several photos of everything, especially when each plant is pretty unique next to it’s peers.
Anyways here we go. I pulled my Double Jam beauty on 9/1. She went 118 days. There are two separate colas. One is much larger than the other but they’re both incredible. I also have to apologize, I did not thing it would be so difficult to take decent photos of them. For some odd reason my phone is not capable of focusing on a bud. I can zoom in on one and it will focus that way, but when I try to get a crisp clean focus from my phone at distance, it doesn’t work. I may look into purchasing a camera to photograph this plant but idk if I want to get that crazy. All I can say is this plant is amazing. It smells soo delicious. It may look lovely but the smell is the best part of the plant. Tropical heaven.
Next we have the outside stuff:
Lagkitan on the left photo. Pretty cool that the GPP is larger than the Lagkitan which is a landrace sativa! And DB#1 is again taller than GPP. Pretty snazzy. Good news about the Lagkitan too. I have several male specimens in there! Unfortunately though that does diminish my odds of finding the scorpion phenotype, and that makes me less hopeful for my desired plant in this bunch. That said, making seeds to make more chances at one is probably a better thing in the long run…
Next we have the inside stuff:
So in veg right now I have: Double Jam, DrunkenBastard1, DrunkenBastard11, BerryFreak, MentholSkunk (1-11), SubterFreak (1&2), Invictus(1&2), Imperium X, and V9 Tiger
Clones are: DB11 (x2), Giant Pur Pur (the big one), Duckweb, Invictus3(male), Double Jam, and Lagkitan (1-18)
In flower (outside) I have all the Lagkitan as well as DB1 surrounded by a bunch of different mutants. I hoped there wouldn’t be any cross pollination between my mutants and the landrace sativa but after the wind we’re having today I can say that’s not going to be the case. I’m highly tempted to process my DJ (she’s still drying) and throw the mutants from outside into the flowering tent, but I REALLY don’t want to bring aphids into the house and the outside plants have a fair decent amount on them. Fortunately outside natural predators like lacewings and ladybugs can be found everywhere if you just look close enough. Inside though, they don’t have any protection except for d.earth and I don’t want to use that on them while they’re flowering so… kind of in a predicament. I’m very highly tempted to let everything happen outside, and run my official seed runs indoors. I have until the clones root to really think about it.
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That thing is bananas dude. lol. Its like a roided out chia pet. Super cool. That yellow on that other one sure pops. Its in a room of cool stuff and still draws you to look at it.
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@crunkyeah Looking awesome as always.
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Alright well another mini update here… man things have been rough for the plants the past couple of days. The inside ones I’ve noticed both spidermites and aphids… both the clones and the veg plants. Trying to deal with them with a 50/50 mix of d.earth and powdered sulfur. So far it’s working but the bugs keep coming back after some time.
I have not yet had a chance to process my DJ but I’m thinking it’s going to involve a lot of grinding and just putting the ground bud into a jar. One of the drawbacks I’m finding is that once the leaves start drying and they let off that cut grass smell, it really overpowers the smell from the calyxes. When I first clipped it, there was no grass smell so it was awesome. Now it just smells like grass, and it affects my asthma. Now when I grind it up and smoke it, no problems. Still tastes wonderful and produces an awesome high. This is the only plant I will tolerate smoking of leaves. Everything else is nasty but these leaves will get you fucked up haha. When I do get to it (tonight or tomorrow) I will post more pics.
And onto outside… well… the outside plants… let’s just say we had a couple of days of really intense heat coupled with fast dry winds. I’m talking 101F and 30-50 mph winds, for pretty much 2 days straight. It was soo windy! I had to water my plants like 4 times rather than just once in the morning and once before dark. In addition to that, the wind played bowling with them, knocking 60% of my plants over, about 12 times that day. Finally I got fed up and put them in a configuration with cinder blocks now… pretty hard for them to fall anywhere. Victory!
But then today I wake up and go outside and almost can see my breath. The thermo sitting outside said 42F. Haha. Poor plants. Also getting/going to get a bunch of rain and more cold weather. I hope these plants don’t get too affected. So far they seem quite resilient.
Last thing: I’m starting to get a little bit drained from posting all these updates consistently. Initially I came back to the forums to get a bit of social interaction. While I have met and communicated with some really cool guys and learned quite a bit, I feel like my time may be better spent on other projects. Moving forward I may tone down the frequency of my updates, so I can have a bit more balance in my life.
Time for photos!
For reference, each of the white privacy screens behind the plant is 3’ x 10’. The top of them is 6’ (feet). What’s curious to me is that the Giant Pur Pur and DB#1 seem to be growing taller than the Lagkitan so far. I can’t wait to see if the Lagkitan make more growth vertically because the GPP and DB1 seem to be growing several inches daily. Almost as tall as me!
Some notes about the Lagkitan: I have pulled 1 confirmed herm, and 1 unstable male. The unstable male was one that I showed pistils on, somewhere earlier in this thread. I have also confirmed the presence of another later male, with a more traditional sativa look to him. The earlier flowering spindly male appears like it’s of the short high yielding variety where the second sativa has the tall towering and small wispy flower structure which takes a little longer to get going. As we move more towards the ideal 12/12 flowering they’re used to, I’m wondering when those purple colors are going to begin to express themselves. The females haven’t quite started flowering yet though so I’m sitting on my hands.
Here’s a closeup of the later male. As you can see he has a wonderful sativa structure.
Here’s the other earlier male which seems quite spindly and has quite a bit of pollen sacs on him.
Can’t tell which is better but I hope both get to do their thing! I will probably rearrange the order of the plants so that the males have maximum chance to pollinate every other Lagkitan.
Just had to upload this one because it’s so purdy
Now onto my first ever outdoor flowers 
Giant Pur Pur showing 3 leaf tips as it flowers. Not sure what to think of that! Makes me suspect that GPP is the grandfather of Duckfoot varieties. Of all the mutant varieties, this one is the biggest and most vigorous. The internode spacing on this plant is insane! She’s also started flowering much much later than all the other phenos of GPP. I really hope this is a high yielding variety. It will make a wonderful P1! I am sooo fortunate that out of 9 seeds I got one true GPP. The clone of it has roots already so I am quite happy with this strain. Stem rub is wonderful! Fruity earthy hashy dankness is all I can say.
Imperium X doing Imperium X things getting all purple and pretty! This photo was taken before the 42F temps btw!
Quack Bastard showing good flower structure and wonderful floral smells coming off her.
Drunken Bastard #9 (highest yielding blueberry terp pheno). Waiting to see if these cooler temps will trigger some of the purple coloration in this plant, but so far nothing yet. Will keep an eye on it!
My BerryFreak angel appearing to be the most resinous of all the outdoor plants so far. Funny thing is, where she’s at… she’s not even in direct sunlight at any part of the day. It’s basically all indirect light. Fascinating!
Here we have the Duckweb. It’s difficult to show the pink pistils because she’s not really that far into flowering yet, but they are showing up! Can’t wait to see her keep going.
Here’s a GPP pheno that looks like it could have purple buds under cooler temps. Curious to see how this one turns out too!
Last thing, total 180 here but I’ve decided that I’m not going to continue with the breeding program I intended on and I’ve been talking about for a while. The issue I’m running into is my plan doesn’t account for scalability. I was seeking to combine multiple lines together but this 1:1 type of thinking doesn’t allow me to move my plants forward fast enough for me (especially with 17 weeks flower). In addition, I haven’t figured out where there’s a way to keep the “P” or parent generation around, along with the F1 offspring, and still have space to sort through F2s.
I think what I’m going to do now is focus on finding the building blocks. There are 7 mutant “types” if you ask me, and 3 landraces which I would prefer to have my keeper females.
Mutants:
Freakshow: BerryFreak & Menthol Skunk
ABC: Drunken Bastard#11
Lanceolate: Giant Pur Pur
Duck: Duckweb (IBL - pink pistils)
SWAG Duck: V9 Tiger (also variegated!)
SWAG Lanceolate: AD17 - can sprout but may not as I really like the regular lanceolates; undecided
Mnogolistka: Multileaf, manyleafs… who knows. Need to sprout.
Landraces:
Lagkitan - purple scorpion pheno
Double Jam - tropical paradise pheno
Myanmar - spiky 3 leaflet variety
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You have a lot going on. I don’t blame you for scaling back.
Fwiw, I like seeing your plants progressing.
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Yeah after harvesting the DJ I realized I really have enough herb to last me a good long while. I have probably 3 lbs of flower right now, with a larger harvest coming in two weeks, with the outdoor plants finishing sometime in October. I’m going to be a busy guy. I consume maybe 2g per day on average; 3-5g on days where I smoke a lot.
I’ve also decided once winter kind of swings in, I’m going to do a Lagkitan seed run indoors, and focus on maintaining my mutants and getting them ready for next year. The bastard clones especially I want to give them enough time to get big. Next year I’ll do a Multileaf hunt and see if I can’t find a good male and female to do a repro. The female will then be used as a P1. Idk I want to keep things simple since I don’t really need more smoke at the moment. I feel more pressed to find my building blocks than I do sprouting my F1s. Time will tell if I change my mind, as I do so often 
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Looking amazing! Absolutely love the variety of mutants!
Hopefully those subtfreaks snap out of growing slow. Looks like one has started to grow a bit. Do you cull runts or wait to see what they have to offer?
Keep up the good work!! Love this thread
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@lilmanbigplan - Thanks! I’m enjoying them too Trying to get all the keeper females together and get them stabilized (by that I mean healthy large clone donors). I’ve got a few of my keepers that are only in clone form right now (need to dirt them today).
Well I normally cull plants that don’t fit my criteria. This includes runts. That said, I don’t think ABC puts out runts. I think it puts out small bushes that are just small, nothing ‘runt’ about them it’s just genetic. Just my two cents after growing a few though. I will let the little one do it’s thing and see what happens! They’re both beginning to smell though a little bit, and I would say lime is right on the money. Smells almost identical to another strain I’ve run with lime terpenes.
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Update time:
Offsite indoors: (Invictus day 56 - coming down day 63)
Offsite outdoors:
Not going crazy on the details here but I have a lot of successful pollinations with all kinds of different crosses here. I hope the Invictus males are passing on the same genes that the females are expressing. I have F1 crosses with mutants as well as Invictus F2s, which should be interesting.
Onsite outdoors:
Pollinations look good here too. Plants close to DB#1 seem to be pollinated well, and Lagkitan females appear to be creating calyxes with seeds in them too! I may remove both DB#1 and the early Lagkitan male so the later males can dust the females too. Need to think about it.
Indoors:
Veg top:
Hoping all clones handle rooting and all the abuse from aphids. Looks like they should all pull through.
V9T not showing sex yet. Praying for female so I don’t have to create another variegated swag female. Menthol Skunk will be sexed and selected from this winter. I will also make BerryFreak F4 and Menthol Skunk F4. In addition to that I have some Multileaf seeds germinating. When there’s more to photograph I will.
Bottom:
In about a month all these plants are going to go offsite to get flowered. DB x IX, I1, I2, DJ (SF1&2 will be sexed too). I’ll then work on finding all my mutant keeper females. Also in spring I’m going to do a Multileaf x Multileaf cross, hoping to stabilize the original leaf trait.
That’s all for now!
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Wicked, OG @crunkyeah!
Tagging along.
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@ciganomarola - Thanks for tagging along!
I just had to show everyone these wonderful little Multileaf beauties!
Big update coming this weekend/Monday.
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Thats a lot to juggle. Nothin wrong with changing plans as you go. I’m ready for winter already, and harvest/trimming isn’t even done. Gonna be another long night tonight. I’m super happy to see you got some sprouts. Most of the seeds are coming out of the freezer around halloween. So it’ll be nice to see what they do for you before then. Like I said, I haven’t grown these out very far yet. Just enough to see extra fingers, but I was cramped on space with other things so culled them.
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@RandomHumanoid - Absolutely loving watching these grow! Mucho gracias for getting these into my hands! I definitely hear you on the trimming front. Lots of trimming in the days ahead. The plants you’ve got going this year look beautiful by the way. I’m really tempted to germinate the other pack as well. Might do that on Monday or something idk. Definitely enjoying these so far though!
@ everyone else - I did want to make an announcement in terms of my plans and goals moving forward. I have mostly decided on a breeding program for my mutants. Each unique mutant cultivar will be outcrossed with a different strain, selected for specific reasons for each cross. I expect each successful pairing (taken to F2 to reintroduce mutants) to take around 2 years to complete. I am going to try and change my growing limitations this coming up year and upgrade to having like 5-6 flowering tents. This should allow me greater flexibility in working these crosses sooner rather than later. I’m hoping once I can expand a little bit, then maybe it will only take 3-5 years to complete all my crosses. Once that is done, I will likely play around with combining the mutants.
Anyways I did want to put up here which crosses I intend on pursuing and a short description about the plant I’m looking for from each cross.
- BerryFreak x Myanmar landrace - Want to introduce vigorous pest resistant genetics into the BF line. In addition I’ve noticed BF drinks in an odd manner. It drinks like a normal plant but at the same time it doesn’t. I don’t know how to explain it but I know something strange goes on in the root zone. Also, Myanmar landraces are known to be quite productive, even in poor soils. According to TLT they should be hardy, pest and disease resistant, and provide good roots to the progeny. Finally, I selected the Myanmar for BF since the Myanmar gets tall and big. The BF is a relatively small plant, not wanting to grow real tall. A combination should yield a more vigorous pinnate specimen which added pest/disease resistance and general vigor.
- Menthol Skunk x Invictus - Mostly with this cross I’m just aiming to breed a really potent (25%+ THC) pinnate specimen. I’m aiming to lock in ‘mint’ type terpenes with this cross. There’s really not a whole lot to discuss since I don’t know what phenotypes I have for females. I only have 5 plants and I believe 3 are male.
- Double Jam x Drunken Bastard - This is a dream cross for me. The idea is a super long flowering ABC mutant with the Jamaican foxtail flowers. I hope the DB adds a little kick to the DJ in terms of THC. The Jamaican should add pest/disease resistance as well as general vigor. The terpene profiles should match up nicely providing something tropical with a lightly sweet blueberry note. Of course this is just speculation!
- Duckweb x Root Beer Freeze - This is another cross similar to the MS cross. Looking to integrate the root beer terpenes and structure into the Duckweb. Hoping to maintain pink pistils but as long as I maintain the Duck leaf type I’ll be content.
- Giant Pur Pur x Lagkitan - I’ve selected this cross for multiple reasons. First, the L4 male I plan on using is about half the size of my GPP female. They should make a wonderful cross which has a good structured plant, not too big not too small. Secondly, the Lagkitan is low yield and the GPP is high yield. I hope to find a good mix between the two. Lagkitan adding sticky landrace terpenes and effects, while the GPP adds yield and possibly CBD genetics. Oh and if all that wasn’t awesome enough…GPP has purple buds when exposed to colder temps and Lagkitan has purple genetics anyways… maybe I can find a naturally purple offpsring!
- V9 Tiger x Imperium X/Black Rose IBL - Since I don’t know V9T sex yet, I can’t say which purple strain will be bred into it. If it’s a male, I’ll cross to Imperium X. If female, I’ll find a Black Rose male. The big idea with this one is a variegated specimens with purple flowers. REALLY REALLY curious to see what a variegated purple flower looks like!
- Multileaf x Devil’s Malawi or Devil’s Malawi x Multileaf - I’ve also excited about this cross. From what I’ve been told Multileaf is a fast flowering plant in most cases. It’s also known to be more mild in effects, likely having more CBD than THC. Bringing in the Devil’s Malawi is going to create more potent progeny, while integrating unique cannabinoids like THC-V into the mix. In addition I think the flowering times should become more reasonable for me. I prefer plants that flower around the 11-12 week mark. 8-9 weeks is too quick for me. The Malawi should offer some longer flowering progeny.
A couple notes: In my mind there are really only 6 unique mutants at the moment. I do have 2 pinnate specimens I plan on working on but I can’t decide as of yet, which one I would like to pursue so I’m planning on pursuing both. It’s very likely that I just end up picking one to pursue… but that’s going to happen ONLY after I see what I have in my Menthol Skunk specimens.
Also, I’m going to maintain the bonsai sultan idea as I breed these together. For example let’s go with the (GPP x L) cross. In addition to that cross I also want to have 1 of each mutant present as well as a bunch of other Lagkitan females… so I’ll get my ideal (GPP x L) F1s and then I’ll get all kinds of other F1s too. If for whatever reason I want to go back and work a strain differently, I’ll have those options.
Lastly, during this whole process I also want to stabilize some of the mutants and offer those seeds to the public. For example I could make BerryFreak F4, Menthol Skunk F4, Drunken Bastard F4, and so on. Still thinking about the best way to move forward but I’m 97% sure this is the route I want to go.
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aha aha. any more info for a Landracelover?