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ooh random mix seeds huh? that could definitely be exciting.
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Thatās one hell of a nice mystery to have to solve. Enjoy!
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yes yur correct from what i been told.
there a few contridictionsā¦ such as the bust and later ousting on dutch radio.
there is evidence a seed store(farm/feed store) existed in the 1920ās, which is often cited as a precursor to the āSacred Seedsā, mentioned in the 1984 cultivators choice catalog.
Hand written by Sam, only distributed in Holland, only to a few people. he used this to sell Af1, DP34, sk1, etc to nevil. and wernerdā¦ Those sales in summer and fall of 1984, were all Sams catalog was used for.
Sam arrived in amsterdam in march of 1984 with Ed Rosenthal. Whether Sam stole gear from a busted bank called Sacred, or stole it from someone else, or bought the gear fair and squareā¦ the two men somehow arrived in hollland with a shit-ton of american seeds. The only two strains of that entire batch Sam and Ed brought that can be linked to a real person are the DP34 and the Cali Orange.
there were loose knit groups of growers,Iām sure in Cali btween 76-84ā¦ as there are everywhere. i have a few friends i swap clones withā¦ but was there a organzied group called sacred? not much evidence other than sams articles. and him saying Sacred made sk1 in 75. stabilized it in 78ā¦ took to holland. Not much mention of others such as Af1.
Did sam get all those genes from one source, or get a strain each from a dozen people? Rosethal might have brought some but if he had, we wouldve heard about it.
also evidence that someone with ties to the feed store made cannabis seeds which were narrowed to a single line, either for/with the store, or just on thier own, around 1952, with the first hybrid beans being handed out in 1953ā¦ No mention of this after 1953, until sometime between 1983 (CAMP) and 1997. sometime during 1983-1997 that was named romulan.
All we have is the single article SunSoil Seeds, whatever its called, written by Sam in 1979. that has a catalog of landraces and f1s. but was it for show? like the catalog printed in HT in 81(i think 81?) in sams articleā¦
if there was a group called sacred, then iām inclined to believe there was a bust. despite being lack of police reportsā¦ If sacred was a bank and they werent busted, then they wouldnt let a dozen strains go like thatā¦ by 87, two major dutch banks were selling the Cali gear in international catalogsā¦we know that all the dutch dealt with only sam and ed. if there was a Sacred still, they wouldve been furious they were cut out of the deals.
we know that Sam was ousted on dutch radio. but idk if the allegations were true, or if they simply thought they were true. or of the radio broadcasters knew it was false but said it anyway, as part of a smear campaignā¦ By this time (86 i think it was when he was ousted) sam had pissed off the dutchā¦ they all wanted him out of amsterdamā¦ he was too loud and acted like a sterotypical american tourist would actā¦ he disrupted thier quiet little black marketā¦ he did these crazy grows that brought heat on everyoneā¦ sam even managed to traumatize Wernerdā¦ and in the years following 84, people started to see his gear wasnt all that. great for hybrudizing with dutch gear, but any foreign genes wouldve boosted thier poolā¦ (all they had were Old Edās, lowlands stuff, some mexicans, afghansā¦ and all was pretty much relegated to greenhouses).
u can see the shift when u read old seed banks catalogs. in 85 touting the af1ā¦ 87 in the NL1, saying āitās not acrid and nasty like some afghansā. lol thats a direct dig on Sam. saying: fuck his gear and fuck him.
lol. its a shame; i doubt we will ever know the truth about where Sam and Eds gear came fromā¦
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RESPECT!! bl abla bla 20 letters or āwordsā Still respectā¦id be proud to call you my friend any day of the week!
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Simpleā¦it all started from bag seed! What came first the bag or theā¦seed? It was growing wild somewhere and someone grabbed some (of course) and started selling it to his friends. His friends got pissed off and started growing out the seedsā¦history repeats itself!
It ended not in a gun shot but a whimperā¦
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1st post here. Iāve been reading about Sam in this thread and love the stories!
Wondering if anyone ever see this before? Itās from the Santa Cruz Sentinel 1980 - mentions Sam by name:
āBottlecap Flicking: Men Bambula, White. Bruce Brownie and Sam Selgnij; Women Alice Colby and Shannon Ryan.ā
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Welcome to OG @splitz. Hit the Introduce Yourself thread and hang out with us for a while. We have a large community. peace
Just an update on this threadās original topic I would highly recommend that anyone wanting āgenuineā Nevil Haze beans go to MrNice and get them from Shantibaba. They will be 1/3 the price of some other Nevil Haze tribute beans that I have seen for sale, and there is no debating their authenticity or genetics. Nevil worked with Shanti, the owner of MrNice for many years breeding strains like Super Silver Haze. Shanti also bread other high quality strains like White Widow (now called Black Widow). The beans for sale there that I am referring to are called Nevilleās Haze. From the MrNice web site:
A tribute to the father of all modern seed companies, Neville Schoenmakers. There is something very special about this 3/4 sativa that those in the know will recognize once they smell the end product. It can be difficult to know what to base your selective reasoning on, but the plants that go longer than 16 weeks indoor will really not be of value in the end to indoor cultivators.A tip for those who do find a long flowering plant they wish to keepā¦clones usually finish 2-3 weeks quicker than the seed mother plant and therefore will give the grower a possibility to finish something that normally needs the tropics to grow in.The full flavor is sativa all the way so for you Indica lovers this plant will not be for you! It was made by combining a pure Haze to a NL5/Haze, thus creating probably one of the most influential plants of our time , certainly for flavor , aroma and effect. It is a must if you are within 10ā of the equator for outdoor cultivation , but indoor would be recommended in other regions.All seed companies owe the ground work and origin of modern cultivars to Nevil . Like the man himselfā¦the legend grows!
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As for where Dave and Ed got the beans, you have to realize that seeds in those days were worthless in NorCal. They had to be separated from the bud to roll joints or they exploded when they were burned. We all had rolling trays. Everyone had jars of seeds or they were simply thrown out with the stems. No one paid for seeds, other than for the pot that they came in. They were āfreeā in bags of seeded weed, and until the early 1980s virtually all weed had seeds. Even Thai sticks had seeds. Colombian pot had gobs of seeds. The early sinsemilla stuff in NorCal and later brief sinsemilla from SW and central Mexico all had some seeds too. Early Skunk, Purple, Cali-o, Red Bud, Maui Wowie, Romulan, it all had seeds, albeit in smaller numbers. Sinsemilla growing did not mature until the later 1980s when it moved indoors. Even after that strains like ChenDog came to be a decade later; a few seeds in a few ozās of weed. So it would have been easy for Ed and Mel and Dave to grow local bought skunk, Cali-O, Durban, Afghani, Mexican and Colombian and whatever else from seeds. I could easily grow THOUSANDS of seeds from just a few bred and seeded plants, take them to Holland and pass them off as some āsacred seed collectiveā breeding program beans. Then make a fast and fat profit. In Holland I believe that people figured out that. To paraphrase Nevil from posts about the seeds he bought from Watson and Watsonās breeding them: āHe was just a courier bringing California genetics to Holland.ā
As for Ed Rosenthal, according to Mel Frank, he and Ed bought a house together in Oakland in the mid 1970s. Mel was a known seed collector, and he says that at one time he had over 100 strains in his collection. Ed was also known to go to Amsterdam and he brought seeds back with him from Europe. That is where the Durban that Mel worked came from, and subsequently where Dave Watson got his Durban line from (Melās B strain of Durban). The Oakland house was the home of a very large seed collection of Melās, one that Mel wishes he still had today, according to interviews with him. Mel Frank is not his real name by the way, any more than Sam Skunk is Watsonās. The ācollectiveā as it were was merely these guys, and maybe Rob Clarke. California Orange was bred by Jerry Beisler, and documented in his books. Watson would alter take credit for breeding that, along with skunk, Durban Poison, and later generations of Haze. Old Ed had skunk in Holland before Watson moved there. Old Ed Holloway was from Portland, OR BTW, and not California as many say. That is where a lot of Holland genetics came from. The early European skunk obviously came from him.
As for Romulan, the story I believe having lived in that area for 30+ years is that it was a line from Korea bright back by doggies stationed at Ft Ord, then the home of the 7th division. That line and skunk were two that the SF Bay Area bikers got ahold of and grew locally with great interest. Later on the word was (locally) that Mendocino Joe (AKA Alaska Joe) got a cut from the biker strain and took that to Holland with him, saying that he bred it. The Watson story in miniature. I used to buy a lot of hash and Thai sticks on the base at Ft. Ord. Go to some barracks there, ask for some sergeant by name that was the husband of a woman that worked with my brother in Salinas, and loā¦ invited in, exchange money for hash, and talk shit for an hour or two. A lot of local weed came though Ft Ord. The Skunk line also split off of the Bay Area biker scene and āUncle Festerā took them with him to Humboldt Co.
So in the end? The BOEL brought in a lot of weed to California, as did the hippies from Mexico. The military also brought a lot in, hashish through Europe and Thai sticks, Cambo Red and Viet weed from SE Asia and the Philippines. They also brought in weed from Hawaii, where they were quarantined after serving in Nam. There was also a population of Hawaiians in cities like Marina, and they had a pipeline of Mowie Wowie and Kona Gold. There was a large pipeline through LA and the California Central Valley to Colombia for weed and vitamin āCā. It all converged on the Monterey Bay Area. Some independents also brought hash and weed in through other channels, or directly. We occasionally got weed from Africa and India and Temple balls from Nepal that way. As a result it was a smorgasbord of genetics, all free for the asking. Seeds were worthless then. Some locals began breeding. That stuff also hit the local market, amplifying the local genetic smorgasbord. I laughed when my brother showed me the seed catalog of Nevilās from Holland in the early 1980s. Why would I buy a seed for $5, when all the weed I bought to smoke had seeds in it?
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That is so true even where I grew up. Fucking seeds in it all. All of the Colombian had them. Everybody had them for years in the Mexican. When I was in the Navy in Washington state, in '76 and '77 we got a lot of Thai stick from cali but still no sensi except for the Hawaiian at first it seemed. Then people woke up to growing unseeded pot. The Hawaiian I got to smoke on the island in 77 was strong as shit compared to anything else at the time, except ThaiStick, which was always a treat, but not available all the time.
I canāt remember if I was smoking any southeastern sensi before I went to the Navy out west. When I got out in 77, after a stay in Southern Oregon for 6 months, I went back to Wash but then to Montana in 78. We started smoking good BC bud and other stuff of unknown origin regularly by '85, all top shelf unseeded bud. I was going to college and skiing a lot. Thatās where I was getting all of the new shit. But, nobody talked about strain names much. I donāt remember having to go back to seeded weed much after that. Unless you were desperate you looked for the sensi bud.
After those years around '79 to '90, I was traveling a lot for my work and moved a lot. I was just happy to get the strongest weed I could find, in some really tiny places. But, weed was always available everywhere I ever livedā¦
The first pics of sensi I grew was in 79 I think. It wasnāt until '97 that I got to grow some nice pot outside in the Appalachians. I was hooked then. I was growing bag seed from the bud a co-worker was supplying me with. Not sure if he was growing or knew somebody. But every seed I found, very few, I grew out and all were females and fire for back then. good times.
Sorry for the ramble, Iām blazed. Iāll look at it in the morning and cringe if I need to.
Thanks for all of the detailed history you guys. I was there but not involved much after high school in the dealing or smuggling friends. Heh, a million cool stories in between thoughā¦ fer real.
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Itās true anywhere you grew up back then.
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So true. It was a much smaller supply chain back then.
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IDK about anyone else, but my seeds did not cost $10.00 a seed, as Todd was so generous with freebies! I got freebies with my order, and opted for for a pack of the ON Haze for the 4/20 drop, and got more freebies.
Myself, I now know the real history from a person that was there, and posted up with evidence.
Thank you Todd, Iām gifting some of my freebies, due to your genorosity.
webe
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You saying Nevil was not there? Or Shantibaba? Or Howard Marks?
Laughable.
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There are some stains that I want I know cant be had unless I pay a arm and a leg. Specifically Nevile g13 and Emperor cookie dough. Dr Greenthumb is wanting 200 for pack of 5 s1 . I hate to spend that much but considering some people are selling clones of elite cuts for 150$ each it doesnāt look that bad. At least I will get 5 of something similar to the mom and could make S2s if I wanted that will have some variation. Lets not talk about ECD 500$ a pack.
I personally love Nevile and Shanti work. I think I own 1 of everything on the MNS site. Its a really good way to get older strains that havent been watered down.
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A complete fabrication by todd like the majority of his āstorysā he mixes truth and lies. If Todd didnt care what people thought of him he wouldnt be trying so hard to convince everyone. You can never trust a guy who trys to convince people by saying " i had cancer" when he didnt . Im suprised he doesnt have a picture of himself with jesus christ. No one knows him in holland.
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We have read everything you have asked us and have come to the conclusion that you mix truth with lies and have fabricated a grandiose conspiracy theory. Iām surprised you did not take a picture of yourself with Jesus. You try too hard to convince people who you are and that gives you away. You brag about doing thins that were clearly illegal and come on a public forum to do so.You are now selling seeds, cannabis seeds are federally illegal. Hemp seeds are legal Nevil didnāt grow hemp Mel frank didnāt grow hemp and you are not selling hemp seeds why are you trying to convince people that you are? And all of this coming from a guy who stated all over the internet that you had cancer. when you didnāt. A guy who gets out of mandatory minimums for growing 6000 plants? a guy whose case established that people cannot use medical cannabis as a defense? domestic abuse charges for beating up your girlfriend and you have been busted 8 times since. And what was the purpose of putting mr cogos documents online? I bet you donāt even no him do you? the truth is todd its all self-aggrandizement and for what purpose?
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We have reviewed the information posted and have determined that formula 1 is correct in stating that cannabis seeds are federally illegal. hemp seeds are legal. You are not selling hemp seeds. So why the attacks? we can only assume that you are a frivolous web site run by the feds or else why would you be conning people to use their computer to order seeds that are federally illegal? your ad hominid attacks and ridicule makes the point.
The trouble with this story like all the storyās written about these people is that it works off of Steve Hagars high times storyās and or Todd McCormick storyās which are just that storyās
its unbelievable that by just reading them everyone thinks they have the truth about cannabis history we have reviewed many of the points in all the storyās and found them lacking in credibility. Nothing against you or your story personally. People get mislead all the time.
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