Wonder were the slight herm comes in?..there is a lot in haze, but Nevil’s are probably the most stable line I have ever run through all the different makes and breeders. Including hybrids not related. Still a potential
The Nigerian does at times and not others some makes its substantial and some not at all. Rafiki did a little and so did Alpine 3.0…they both used ET’s Nigerian as the mother. Maybe one to toss per pack.
The 88 where 1.0 came from was Nigerian Silk dominant in the population regarding pedigree. An unmanageable ratio of herm. It was select to Nevil’s outliers. Now in over 100 plants 1 showed a late nanner at 13w. Point being selection can change everything and does.
This is that one Alpine. It just continues to be kept for the flower, but won’t breed it. In 40 jars it always gets a reaction. 7up and sharp metals
One of my favorite Doc D cuts I found was White Haze x Chem DD f2 . Chem D in that selection is a notorious herm. The F2 selection cleaned it up because someone felt it was worth the time and attention to preserve.
That said one of the original couple packs was just garbage. A few had a minor sign and the grow itself was absolutely worthwhile across the population for the 5m with a tweezer.
One cut is 4-5 years old and stood through the culling of countless projects.
That said. It sucks about that plant…someone could take it on if it was worth it. I had some flower that was said to be that cut and it didn’t call to my preferences so I haven’t run it…
Everything you are pointing out is valid and I guess I just wanted to put it all in context that almost everything can be a problem, but most that have stood the test of time have because there just is no equal replacement.
At the these accessions. Nigerian Haze and jj’s Nigerian. I think it could be as much as 20% herm that will be culled. Males will also be reversed and tested for stability before use
No, they always and forever said they didn’t know what mirakel was and just assumed it was part thai.
In years, no one has found any thai in any cross from it.
Nobody’sNursery and Doc D dropped the “Thai” from Mirakel name/crosses because of it. They only did so a few months ago. I don’t have the evidence as the place I saw it talked about was on Nobody’sNursery discord which I’m no longer in.
Karma released the .45 x Mirakel (A5 Haze x Mirakel) as freebies in 2009. These were an accidental cross that his associate made of A5 x Thai.
The original breeder or Karma could have been mistaken, or fabricated the name, but this is how it was released and seems like more guesswork to claim there is no Thai in the cross no matter how knowledgeable the grower is.
The pinwheel florets on the CBH likely come from the NL influence. Best we can do is group traits logically and guess. This is what the old NL5 growth/bouquet looked like, but more flat top
The Bandaid has longer more tangled pistils than CBH which is more Thai…good haze is strong Thai influence anyway so who knows.
I make strong assertions, but no matter how sure, experienced I am or how much evidence I have I will be 100% wrong some of the time on every subject haze.
The most NL plant I have ever seen or grown in hundreds of old NL was one in bandaid 2.0
Supposedly, Thai was bred into the Haze on the last breeding by the Haze Bros and yet there are so many people who claim that there is no Thai in Haze.
That’s ridiculous
500,000 troops coming home to a bunch of tripping hippies. Yeah, not a chance Thai is in there. Lol
This is what I will say. Almost all selection of haze after Nevil went Colombia and NL…almost all of it is not what people remembered of the best of it . Hence everyone reminiscent. Why?
Package. Colombia haze is manageable flowers for bags and containers. Heavy hard hitting high…more stoned than lifted. NL the speed and frost.
Basically. Packages . That is the atypical Colombian NL variations that dominate haze. Thai influence is the higher frequency imo
The ho Chi Minh trail is an engineering marvel. Millions of Viet cong built infrastructure through some of the most impenetrable jungle on on earth over a 14 yr period. I think around 300,000 or more died in process…a lot anyway.
This began at northern laos pre history trade routes weaving through north and south Vietnam, Cambodia and Laos.
Then mass migration of 100,000 of thousands of Vietnamese farmers and tribal fleeing. Many to Thailand.
The our soldiers came back from all over and then the jungles swallowed it all back up.
So. Saying Thai is fairly generic for saying SE asian
A herm line can produce feminized seeds, a herm line has F1 vigor seeds,a herm line can still produce the weed you love.
I even tested growing the mother seeds that threw the nanners. About 80% were herm free.
So if it’s a rare strain I agree herm issues is a minor obstacle and you do still have killer harvest, at the end of your work of separating herm plants.
I noticed I missed the first part of this topic. There are very few of these and I plan to go the distance including taking the time to test male stability and clean up exemplary isolations (even herm) and then publicly test progeny to determine rate of success.
The whole of this project will probably be 2.5-3 years and I plan the not just use my own familiar tech and practices, but also open to suggestions. To answer the good ones with action for everyone to observe and learn together:v:
I test males, then test them post pollen phase.
I’ve had males after a few months show female flowers.
So that tells me I had a herm issues or at least a herm possible line. Had I not tested the male post harvest, it would of slipped through.
Constant dim low light usually can flip a plant.
I can examine bud structure and aroma by flipping the male to female.
That’s where I can determine if my male turns sex like this one in the picture did 2 months later, post harvest of this male.
I’ve been testing a male Thailand landrace for a year now, I haven’t used it yet. It’s definitely a non herm male pre harvest. I’m gonna use it this year sometime.
When I reverse the males for traits I noticed that there is definitely a range of how easily the males transition.
I foliar feed ethylene to accomplish this. I feel there is definitely a way to use this practice to determine the intersex potential of males
So the question. Are male or females more or less resistant because they are producing to little ethylone or too much *gibberellin or vs. vera?
With females that resist reversal vs males…
It seems like we would be determining the best male it’s resistance to ethylon treatment. We would determine the female relative to its resistance to gibberellin.
This information would help determine if the intersex traits are being caused by overproduction or under production of a given hormone for the line as a whole.
To "clean up’ a line does it stand to reason that selecting the most resistant to reversal respective males and females would accomplish this in part?
If the line as a whole reveals very easy to transition for one side vs the other then it’s a line deficiency in the opposite relative hormone.
So the non dominant hormone of the line would all be reversed. If the male is the non-dominate hormone producer then the males would all be reversed. The cultivar that is most resistant to this treatment would them be selected to reduce intersex traits…
If a male doesn’t respond to ethylone at all or very little it may be a true Yy male and selected to clean up intersex traits
@ThePotanist@CocoaCoir@dx4 or anyone else. Does than sound like the correct process or line of thinking for the first steps of reducing intersex traits in a line breeding project?
I would try to focus on more than just what will reverse. If you only focus on that, you may inadvertently select for other traits that are not great. Or for traits that don’t show up until later in life.
Trying to remove intersex traits is likely hard given the plant is naturally hermaphroditic. Not impossible, but it will take a lot of work that will also be hampered by differences in grow environment between runs
I haven’t yet found a plant that had both l intersex traits and desirable traits to a point where prioritizing breeding for stability specifically was needed.
Short of running test crops of every variation of a population
1)would some combination of determining hormone levels of the parents be a potentially time/resource saving practice?
