hey @204medismoke try this calculator
as for the layman (pretty much all home growers - due to not having a lab at home) it is mainly guesswork as the variables are far too many to manage in a home without the lab, so this just helps give a rough idea based on your numbers - just put your numbers in and teh rest is worked out
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thanks for the link i will check it out 
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@gonzo How to Make "Firecrackers" in 1 Hour (World's Easiest Cannabis Edible Recipe) | Grow Weed Easy
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@chronix how are these caps so gorgeous and not greenish? What’s the burps like? Reason being, I’ve thought to try making an oil tincture, but decarb the bed, water wash, then infuse.
@ReikoX - would that work, or would it ruin the final product? I ask because I tried it, and have made capsules with the see decarbed/washed, but (and this is where it’s tricky) they didn’t seem to be ass effective? Keeping in mind, I eat probably 5g abv a day, that might be why I wasn’t “floored”.
Insights team? 
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I would think that decarbing then water washing would drastically lower the yields on the water wash. I would make the water hash, then decarb the hash, then infuse the oil.
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Logical, I was going backward. Thank you!
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I only use bud. I am sure it would come out greener if I were to use leaf.
It always comes out a nice goldish color.
I also use refined coconut oil, so it doesn’t have the coconut taste or smell. Burps taste like buds. 
That only happens if I eat them on an empty stomach though.
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Lol, I’ll take it! Thx @chronix
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Thank you for this thread @ReikoX!
I’m embarking on the ethanol extraction journey over here and have some initial questions. Also pardon my exhaustive overview, it’s just for me to set my own stage of givens and knowns.
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The decarb method of 240°F for 40 minutes seems to be based on or at least supported by this graph:
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Which is taken from this study, though the graph looks different in this copy:
https://diverdi.colostate.edu/C442/references/processing/decarboxylation/j_chromat_1990_v520_p339.pdf -
Interestingly, the study was performed to determine some empirical constants that can be used when decarbing in an open system, where cannabinoids evaporate and change the results.
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Also I’m noting that this graph is for cannabinoids in solution, which may or may not change things around.
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And of course, where we’re trying to knock this carboxylic acid group off the THC molecule using heat:
My questions:
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The bold text above might indicate to me, that we want to decarb in a sealed jar (mason), so that evaporated terps and cannabinoids can condense again after cooling inside the sealed jar. Have you changed any methods used, in terms of time, temp, and carrier (dry vs. in solution)?
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Do you still decarb before putting into solution? I see an old video from Charlotte’s Web where they tour the facility, and they go through the process… they decarb after extraction, and after mixing with oil. They do this in an open oven. I can sort of see why, but have always seen folks discussing a decarb prior to extraction. What’s your take?
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For the time in solution (shake for 5 minutes, recool, shake for another 5) … I’m thinking this is based on the desire to keep everything very cold, to reduce dissolving of waxes/lipids. Is there data out there suggesting how quickly the alcohol will dissolve the trichome heads though? I’d imagine it’s near instantaneous but I’m not sure at all. I guess I’m wondering if something like 20-30 seconds would do? Then again a whole plant extract would benefit from a long steep to get those other products out. What do you find is your favorite in terms of extractions? Quicker or slower? More or less “whole plant”? This is an area I could see both wanting a more pure extraction (naughty chlorophyll lol, why do people dislike it?) vs literally eating whole decarbed bud.
Thanks again for the post I’m learning a ton!
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I prefer to decarb in an open oven, mainly to remove any water that may be in the buds.
I’ve done it both ways. I have a section on “natural decarboxylation” in one of the first few posts you might find interesting.
Yes, I prefer a whole plant. The quick washes are best for a smoke leak product.
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Thanks @ReikoX. What does the moisture “do” in a negative way, if that makes sense? How does it negatively impact end product? I’m sure it does, and I can see the jist here especially when selecting the highest proof ethanol (i.e. the lowest water content solvent) but wondering what aspect of the final product the moisture in the bud is impacting.
Sorry I don’t have all the terms down. What is a smoke leak product?
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Too much water causes the oil to fall out of suspension. Indeed this is why you want the highest proof alcohol you can find.
Sorry, autocorrect. A smokable product.
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I considered starting a new thread on this but this one is a nice meeting place with tons of history, so I figure I’ll ask this here.
After some research, these were the thoughts I had swimming around in my head:
- Decarb before grinding, or after? What temp and timing?
- Decarb in an open system (on a cookie sheet) or closed system (in a mason jar w/ lid)?
- Do I care that an open system decarb evaporates essentially all of the terps?
- Decarb as bare bud, or in solution with a carrier?
- Why does Charlotte’s Web decarb after extraction and after mixing with oil? They use an open system.
- Why does the internet care so much about chlorophyll as if it’s a negative/adulterant?
- Ethanol, or MCT oil as a carrier?
- Does MCT absorb sublingually? Does it matter?
So I came up with a workflow that sort of accommodates all of this into an “optimal” system. I’m sharing here so you @ReikoX and others can poke holes and throw rocks at it. This is a trial run sized batch or “bench test”:
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Heat 2 ounces of MCT oil to 240 degrees F in a pint sized mason jar, in oven, ensuring oil temp is steady 240 +/- before next step. MCT smoke point is 320 degrees F, ensuring some factor of safety towards not changing the chemical properties of MCT oil (purified coconut oil).
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Grind 5g (5,000mg) cured flower. Assume 20% THC (THCA + THC + CBN) for simple math = 1,000mg THC resultant for the batch. 1,000mg / 59 ml MCT oil = ~17mg/ml or 500mg/oz.
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Add ground cured flower to preheated MCT oil, and hold 240 degrees F for 40 minutes.
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Strain the MCT oil into new cooled mason jar in ice cube water bath to stop decarb process.
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Return the strained flower to the original mason jar.
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Pour just enough freezer temperature 190 proof ethanol into the original mason jar containing the strained flower and shake to extract any remaining THC/resinous materials. Shake for a few minutes, nothing crazy.
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Strain the new ethanol extraction (remove the flower material) and return the ethanol to original mason jar.
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Evaporate off the ethanol from original mason jar using a fan and perhaps mild heat (crock pit water bath or sous vide water bath) but mindfully not applying “too much” heat, less than 150 degrees F. Wait until all that is left is the resinous remains with zero liquid ethanol at all.
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Pour the MCT extract from the second mason jar into the original mason jar which contains the resinous results of the ethanol extract. Mix well, applying mild heat if/as necessary.
I see this workflow doing the following for me:
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Decarb is performed within an oil based carrier at standard temp/timing which allows for consistent heat, bang-on timing, and preservation of terpenes, with no smell.
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After decarb I feel as though heat should be limited to maximize potency. Yet we need a long time to extract cannabinoids into MCT oil vs. ethanol… Thus we hit the extracted flower material (which obviously will not be fully extracted into the MCT oil) with cold ethanol, ensuring a decent yield of recovered cannabinoids.
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Evaporation of the ethanol is fairly straight forward even at room temp. NO flames used, and will process this in an environment that is open to the outside air for maximal ventilation.
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Any concerns about bud moisture are resolved by knowing a) it floats on the MCT oil if present and can be drawn off with a pipette or syringe, and b) any remaining water content once hit with ethanol is miscible with ethanol and will readily evaporate.
Please poke holes, toss rocks at the train, evaluate from the basis of what OG feels is necessary vs. unnecessary or “in the margins”. Thank you!!
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There are many paths to Nirvana. Though I do believe you are over thinking it.
For what it’s worth, the best tincture ever made was using the “natural decarb” process described at the beginning of this thread. The bud was not decarbed, the extraction was done as normal. The alcohol was reduced to 50% volume at room temperature witha fan blowing across the top of the jar. The decarb happened naturally in a cool dark place over 90 days.
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I sincerely take that as a compliment! I’ll work up a batch and start a thread my friend, thank you for this one so much.
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I don’t know ‘why’ there is such a hate for the green in the green dragon either.
Perhaps folks are now trying to isolate and purify but I’ve always liked the full spectrum approach.
If you have an issue procuring high proof ethanol (price) There is an interesting machine (too expensive for me) you can use to recover about 90%.
If availability is the issue, you could build (or buy) a column still, it will produce 95% ethanol.
Cheers
G
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Me too., but I refer to it as entourage, the Ms is french, lol!
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Mine too!
Cheers
G
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Ha! They’ve got a word for everything!
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This is the Encyclopedia of tincture threads!
And I’d like to make another small deposit to the Knowledge Base. So, just for fun…
First up is a observation of the range of colors different strains deliver in a tincture form. I recently ran three decarbed samples through a QWET extraction.
The first on the left is from fresh frozen Frankenstein S1 bud, Olive pheno, harvested a couple months ago. The middle tincture is @Floyds Orange Grove by GG4 RIL. It has been curing for just about a year. The far right is a ILGM White Widow classic exxtracted back in 2020.
- Do Tinctures change color with age?
My second offering is a look into the aftermath of a QWET extraction. Here are a few pics of what some sugary buds looked like after freezing alcohol and vigorous shaking were applied. I have fiddled with the images to increase contrast & definition. (Just a decent 30x loupe clipped to an old iPhone)
On first glance you may think the trichome heads are sparkling, but if you look closer you’ll see a forest of decapitated stalks and spikes. The trichome heads are gone and a gooey melted waste remains.
- We reckon 75% extraction efficiency, what do you think?
Hope this is of some interest and sparks a little conversation.
-Grouchy 
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