Question on stability of S1s and subsequent selfed generations

New to growing so NOT AT ALL qualified as a breeder but have a breeding question as I’m trying to select seeds to round out my first grow.

Many strains traditionally thought of as clone-only pop up in seed form as S1s. As a new grower who’s never had to identify (do know where to look and what for) or remove nanners I’m a little concerned about S1s,. My question is, are subsequent selfed generations (S2, S3, etc.) always more stable than S1 or is the real determinant of stability of S1s and subsequent selfed generations the genetic stability of the plant before it’s selfed? In other words, would an S1 coming from a plant sourced from an IBL at f5 likely be more stable than an S2 from a newly-created polyhybrid at f1?

There are many S1s out there of old-school strains I’d love to run (Pre 98 Bubba Kush, Triangle Kush) from good breeders known for doing the work to promote stability, but have been wondering if my thinking above is on the right track. Worst-case for some of the S1s I’ve been told to keep an eye on at about second week of flower and to not worry about mid-late flower nanners if the breeder was conscientious.

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Magnitudes more stable, yes.

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Depends on the initial plant being selfed really.

I’ve seen 100% stable fems that gave full blown herms in subsequent generations. Can make the best selections but nothing beats testing ^^

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If the parent stock had intersex issues then there is a good chance of it getting passed on.

But if the breeder put in the work and removed any intersex issues before the S1 then…

These guys were right on!
Just filled in the blanks there a bit.

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Thanks @Mithridate and @HolyAngel.

Makes sense that should be the first step in deciding whether to sell S1 seeds. But seems like the extent of testing may be hard t get a read on if there’s always a chance to herm several generations down the road.

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I agree!
But…

That takes a lot of work.
A ton of time too.
All that pesky testing to be sure recessive genes do not pop up. :stuck_out_tongue_closed_eyes:

Truth is some breeders just want that cash. :money_mouth_face:

But yea, most certainly they should put in the work.

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Hey @shag - think your reply snuck in there as I was typing mine! All 3 of you really helped with my understanding

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Funny you should ask! Latest episode of Shaping Fire is all about S1 seeds with Ryan Lee aka chimera and the S1 king himself Caleb Nspecta

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Main thing is just clean lowers well

That’s been my experience with S1’s of already “confused” stock

If you clean up the lowers you will generally be ok
Thag is where they show up the most and frankly I don’t even mind it
It’s the ones that bust out of the top of the plant that calls for an immediate cull

Some of The best pot on this planet herms can’t be afraid of em
Just exercise due diligence, clean lowers well and keep an eye out

my first experience with not caring about light herms was when jaws made a lime kush x GSC a long long time ago. A tester said they Hermed so jaws wasn’t gonna release em then I swooped in and bought all 100 he had left for 500$
this has to be like… 10-11 years ago now
Then I found this

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Thanks for the link to The Shaping Fire episode @Garden-Buddy. Nspecta has a Triangle Kush S1 on his website I’ve checked out. In a response to an inquiry about I was told the source of the cut the seeds came from is Cornbread Ricky.

By cleaning towers do you mean keeping a close eye on the the lower branches away from the bud sites at the top and removing balls as soon as they show? Or more proactive leaf management and pruning to prevent them on the lowers in the first place?

Agreed @Shamus. I think because of that might as well not avoid them and instead develop the skills to manage and prevent them. Also you’d shutting yourself out from some great-smoking selections.

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Strip the bottom 1/3 of the plant entirely

No nodes, no leaves. Just run your fingers down the bottom 1/3 of the stem knocking any growth off or cutting if the branches aren’t tiny enough to do that

Only do this once … 3-4 days before ya flower

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@Shamus i know Jaws pretty well, that’s funny! He has some great genetics, great guy too! Man those are absolutely gorgeous!

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Yeah he always uses this pic on his IG

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