OG Kush is known to throw nanners late in bloom, so some seeds were found here and there. But then back before reversing with silver was a common practice, intentionally stressing the plant to force the hermi trait to show was how they did it.
3 Likes
Exactly . That is also my understanding of how it happened back then. I personally feel that is different then what is being done now. IMHO it sure seems like a different result . There is more then enough of these sts reversed plants being grown now that if it wasn’t different we would be seeing tons of reports of killer plants being found. I personally only see reports of average to good and lots of intersex issues. Mind you that is limited to just a few forums. But I can’t help but think that these seeds having name recognition is more of what generates their sales (along with the space constraints to need fems ) and not the stellar results.
The concept of clone only never made any sense to me. Perhaps someone can explain it? As far as I know all clone only means is they found a specific pheno they liked and sold cuttings from it. Chances are if you made seeds from it you would not find that pheno. I remember BOG speaking in a potcast saying he searched for a long time to find another Sour Bubble mother that was the same pheno as the mother he had for over a decade with no luck. These clone only plants started as seeds, one would think a pheno hunt from that pile of seeds might find the one you are looking for again. Please correct me if I am wrong here, I would really like to understand.
1 Like
It all depends on the plant that is being reversed. Just like with breeding, Some have nice genetics even if you don’t find one that is close enough to the cut. But others have s1 that are all over the place and you have to find a gem.
4 Likes
That is basically it. Expect many were bag seeds or one off chucks, you don’t have the parents so you can’t reproduce the same generation to find those siblings. Outcrossing and selective breeding would be work.
3 Likes
Your thought process is right. I also feel the same . But the problem is that may be true or all of the incredible aspects of breeding might get in the way and you end up with a pile of trash because of how some genes interact with others.
That is why I hold such high esteem for breeders who actually are working with and making selections based on the knowledge they have about that stuff. Recessive etc etc
2 Likes
Thanks man, that makes sense. The concept always made me scratch my head since it’s just a plant but I understand now. If it’s an accident and you have no idea what the parents really were it would be near impossible to reproduce.
1 Like
I made my own crosses with these clone only strains over 20yrs. ago…
This is my Matanuska Thunder Head
15 Likes
i think early clone only elites were given that moniker because the parent(s) are unknown and/or could not be reproduced on purpose ie: chemdog, gsc, sour diesel, etc.
currently it seems that people are doing what you said - finding a nice pheno in a seed hunt and giving it a name and the selling cuts. gary payton is an example that comes to mind.
2 Likes
There’s so little effort to stabilize cultivars that the parents of most crosses are heavily heterozygous themselves. Let’s say you took an F1 tomato from a commercial breeder supplying seed to commercial farmers.
There should be pretty minimal genotypic variation between them, because the two parent cultivars are extremely homozygous due to inbreeding, and their pollen/ova should be extremely similar as a result. Companies breeding commercial seed will sequence throughout development, or employ techniques other than selective breeding to generate these inbred parent lines. The F1s resulting from the cross are way more consistent pheno/genotypically than most F1 crosses of cannabis strains, because of the resources and time involved in their development.
With cannabis, creating an F1 cross that consistent would require not one but two inbred lines, and nobody puts that kind of work into it because it isn’t profitable and consumers are happy enough to deal with variance as long as some offspring are desirable.
Many of the parents of these polyhybrid crosses are polyhybrids themselves, some breeders do work to increase trait frequency with sibling mating, backcrossing, or self-pollinating, but the return doesn’t merit the effort mostly, and they’re not going to do it to the point of heavily inbred lines.
Instead, people run the seeds and rely on selection to get some kind of consistency out of these strains. It doesn’t matter to most growers using seed if there are 20 phenos in 20 seeds, because they’re running them with the intent to select their “elite cut”. That’s why large scale operations that demand consistency are often working exclusively from cuts. It’s also why you can’t re-create the F1, even working with cuts of the same parents that produced it. They’re polyhybrids being smashed into one another, and their most desirable offspring are selected and either used for cuts or smashed with another polyhybrid just like mom and dad!
8 Likes
Has anyone here ever grown/compared a real deal clone only strain along side a seed strain? For example, a real deal clone only strain like Arcata Trainwreck and Trainwreck strain from seed…Did they look/taste the same?
I actually did grow Matanuska Thunder Fuck(bikers cut) the real deal clone only strain along side Alaskan Thunder Fuck(cuttings) strain from seed and I can tell you that it’s was not the same pheno as the MTF…even though they claimed that the ATF seeds were from the real deal MTF…I had pix of both flowering in the same 1K flowering room, and both were in DWC and both using the same nutes.
4 Likes
Were any of the seeds close in any category size, structure, yield, smell, taste, potency?
1 Like
I wish I had those pix from the old Overgrow site but I don’t…ATF leaves were more like Indica with Indica buzz, totally opposite of the MTF(bikers cut)…the real deal MTF when properly cured smelled like Orange Tang and the buzz is very Sativa buzz…
The Vietnam Thunder Fuck which I just grew has a very Sativa buzz…didn’t smell like Orange Tang but it’s worth growing if you like Sativa…I don’t have that strain anymore cause I’m done with it, I have actually passed out cuttings/clones to a few people here on Overgrow and 15 of my farmer buddies are growing it now this summer…But I do have more VTF seeds for my personal/private use, maybe/hopefully when I do grow it again I’ll find a pheno close to the Bikers Cut…
Here’s the real deal Matanuska Thunder Fuck growing in my SWC/TRON…
I’ve made several crosses with the MTF(bikers cut) and this is one of them…Matanuska Purple Fuck, I can’t remember what I crossed it with…I also have a cross called Matanuska Platinum and that cross has 4 clone only strains in it’s lineage…
8 Likes