Good evening all,
Been thinking about different approaches to preserving some of the elites and keepers that I have in seed form. I have two ideas so far.
First approach, is just making S1’s of each cut. That will take a lot of time for each project and from what I’ve read it can be difficult to find near replicas of the original in S1’s.
Second approach, would be to find a recessive male or male with easy to identify characteristics that would allow me to find the mom leaners in progeny. That approach is attractive because I could knock up 40-50 keepers in one run. If I kept that male I could do one run every year to back up the elites and keepers found that year.
From listening to some breeders it sounds like it might be easier to find near replicas of original in hybrids.
Curious if anyone has any different ideas or suggestions??
Thanks!
I’m no expert, just another traveler on the same path.
S1s are an easy approach but I’ve seen several warnings that they are not a good approach for future breeding projects due to double recessives and potentially increased herms (eg DJ Short).
I’m thinking a good approach is cross to a ‘sympathetic’ male and then a couple back-crosses to the elite clone stock.
My definition of a ‘sympathetic male’ is stable and complementary attributes.
Open pollination makes total sense if I’m starting with a pack or 2 of regular seeds.
How would you propose open pollinating a clone only such as an old sour diesel cut?
From what I gathered from reading a couple knowledgeable people you would first s1 the cut, making the most seeds possible. It is suggested not to make a seed run every year unless you can grow 100+++ at a time. Smaller runs would kick too many genes to the curb. Tom hill talks about doing a run every 10 years. Growing as many as possible and keeping anything close or better than the cut and open pollinating with reversed females. Repeat every 10 years.
The idea of crossing to an aa male is a great idea as a side project but for preservation purposes outcrosses are a big nono. Akin to mixing golden retrievers and German shepherds to preserve golden retrievers, kind of
Also, depending on which cut you are willing to s1, some will be pretty homozygous for most traits making it an easy task - think of our fabulous outcrossers - the chems, ogs, cheese etc. those will give pretty uniform s1. Going forward if you ever end up in a hermie cul-de-sac, you may have to s2 s3 select moms to investigate who’s the party pooper.
Others will be all over the place, thats where selection will probably be needed to ensure you don’t run the line into the ground with deleterious recessives.
Not to be argumentative just kicking ideas around but wouldn’t that initial outcross be the start of any Bx project? Then keep back crossing to the mom?
Side projects wise my mom was suggesting today getting a Cane Corso female to breed with the Rottweiler male that I currently have. Hmmm…
That makes a lot of sense. I think I’ll have to be quite selective about picking cuts that are worthy of a Bx3 project. I would really like to undertake that at some point though. I have a huge amount of respect for the work Tony green has put into preserving the GG4 for the community. Seems like if we all just picked one to work, we could preserve a lot of gems quick.
Cheers
I would look at what Tony has done with the GG4 and Gorilla Bubble. To me, he put the work in to bring a solid line from a clone. The more you back cross the closer you get to the clone only. You may never get 100% but you will get pretty close and have a stable strain from the clone only.
Find a breeder male you like, or several which fit the elites you’re trying to save. Depending on how neurotic you’re trying to be, you might try finding such a male from the same generation as the elite, or from one of the parents.
Here is a Club House conversation about this subject. It’s five hours long, but about half way through Ryan Lee (Chimera) comes in and drops a whole lot of knowledge.
I think reversing your females would be much faster. Just keep some of the parent seeds in case you ever want to do a backcross. Like pinpointing a specific trait… good luck!
Open pollination wouldn’t work if your trying to replicate a specific cutting into seed form…as if you did open pollination you would have to go through hundreds of seeds to find something like the clone making all the other seeds and the time invested into them pointless as they wernt the goal or purpose of project. Also once you find a plant in the seeds similar to the elite cutting how do you replicate when you have no clue wich mother an father combined actually made it. Also the method of finding a non dominant father an using that might just be f2 ing the clone leading to a whole lot of shuffling of the genetics.
Your target is to replicate the specific cutting an its traits into seedform. There are old school breeding techs used to try an replicate a cutting in seedform but it takes about two years to do.
